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margaret_obrien

Lights buzzing and flickering, circuit breaker tripping

11 years ago

This all started when I had can LED lights put in my kitchen. Now the lights to the bathroom and bedrooms are flickering and tripping the circuit.

I had an electrician tell me that because of the new code a new circuit breaker with GFCI had to be installed and the electricity from the bathrooms and bedrooms and kitchens all have to be on the same circuit.

He basically said I am out of luck and to try to put in light bulbs with less wattage. But even if no lights are on the lights in the hallway still buzz.

Can anything be done?

I can't see living like this let alone trying to sell my house with electrical problems

Thanks for any advice

Comments (10)

  • 11 years ago

    Get a different electrician. Something is wrong with the new setup, or there exists a return path other than the return wire.

    It is true that kitchen, bath, and outside circuits should have GFI circuit breakers, but I don't think they have to be on the same circuit! Each circuit needs protection by GFI, but each circuit may have its own GFI. Doubling up of outlets (not circuits) served by one GFI was done in the past as a cost saving measure. In my house, one outside outlet and the powder room is served by the GFI in the powder room, however, this is only one circuit. My house was wired in 1976. But care must be exercised in the layout to not create potential overloading of any one circuit. I expect codes have changed since then. At that date, GFIs were a new item.

    The general rule was that GFIs were required in locations where shock hazards were most common. Most of the locations were where one might touch a grounded item and a damaged or mis-wired appliance at the same time. Examples are: an electric fry pan and a metal kitchen sink or faucet; electric shaver and bathroom faucet; a radio dropped in the bath tub; and outside, a faulted device with the user making circuit to earth or a piece of plumbing; etc. Under these rules, places such as living rooms and bedrooms were exempt. However, local authorities may add additional requirements.

    The instructions for GFIs often state that these should not be used in series. For example, there could be a GFI circuit breaker in the main entrance box that is serving a bathroom circuit, but another small GFI was installed inadvertently in an outlet box in the bathroom in the same circuit. This would be two GFIs in series.

    If you are located in an incorporated municipality, very likely there is a building inspector and a permit is required to make major wiring installations. If this is the case, your building inspector can be an Allie in getting this situation corrected.

    In regard to the buzzing sound, have you determined the source? Is it a transformer in an LED fixture that is part of the power supply for the light? Transformers do present design problems and are prone to buzzing. Cheaply or poorly made transformers can be noisy. If this is the source of your noise, the solution is to replace the transformers with better ones, or get better fixtures.


  • 11 years ago

    Thanks for your help.

    The LED fixtures aren't the ones buzzing and flickering. The flickering and buzzing ones are in the bedrooms and bathrooms.

    The electrician who put in the lights came out 2 times and replaced circuit breakers. That was good for a few weeks but then then problem started again.

    One of the circuit breakers is also buzzing.

    I will call another electrician and see if I can get this fixed.

    It's frustrating to rely on experts who don't seem willing or able to fix things.

    Thanks for giving me hope


  • 11 years ago

    all have to be on the same circuit.

    Complete joker. Get a real electrician. This guy is a crackpot.


  • 11 years ago

    I'm an amateur, but isn't it true that only the OUTLETS have to be GFCI protected? Is it actually required for overhead lights? Hard to imagine those are much of a shock hazard. People don't normally stand in a bathtub full of water and try to change a light bulb, even if they could reach it.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The GFCI wouldnt cause flickering, and lights/fans over a shower or tub do need GFCI, but the lights in the other rooms dont need it, and there should be a separate breaker for the bath outlets and 2 or 3 breakers for the kitchen outlets. Usually the outlets will be protected with GFCI at the outlet and the breaker is an AFCI unless a CAFCI breaker is installed which monitors both AFCI and GFCI. If changing the breaker did help for a while then the problem started again, there may be a bad connection at the panel possibly requiring a new panel, arcing at the panel maybe is causing the flickering, unless the LED lights are on a dimmer, dimmers some times do not work properly with LED lights even when the light says its dimmable it can start to flicker at low dim. LED is a newer technology and I am hoping they figure the flicker out eventually. Each brand is working their way slowly to a better LED.

    As far as putting in bulbs with less wattage, if you are using LED, there is no such bulb that uses less wattage.... Perhaps something on the currently overloaded circuit is causing the LEDs to flicker also.

    My guesses are:

    1. Incorrect wiring, overloaded circuit. Wire circuits properly with correct breakers.

    2. Problem at the panel, loose connection with breaker

    3. LED on dimmer, dimmer and LED are incompatible even though LED is dimmable.

    4. Some device on the currently overloaded circuit is causing the LEDs to flicker.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    While most exhaust fans are listed to require GFCI when installed over a tub or shower, only a few lights need GFCI protection in that zone.

    I still think this is actually an AFCI that is required for the lights in the kitchen bath and bedrooms, and the receptacles in the bedrooms only.

    Dimmers and some LED light transformers will cause humming in unrelated incandescent fixtures because they mess up the harmonics of the sine wave of the electrical current. There is also something called phase shifting that puts the amps and volts out of sync with each other and will cause the breaker to heat up and trip, also caused by bad electronics in the led drivers.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    GFCI and AFCI won't cause flickering, perhaps nuisance trips, but not flickering.

    THe current 2014 code reads:

    All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected [by AFCI].

    Note that the above makes no difference between receptacles and lighting outlets. All circuits serving such outlets must be protected by AFCI.

    The 2008 and 2011 codes read the same with the notable exception that KITCHENS are not listed as one of the places, nor were laundry rooms. Essentially, those rooms that typically require GFCI were specifically excluded.

    The 2005 code required it only for bedroom outlets.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I assume that since it was a retrofit, the circuit in question, as it was already wired, has everything on it for the kitchen bath and bedroom MINUS the receptacles in the kitchen and bath.

    Whether or not the electrician also added AFCIs to the other circuits in the kitchen and bath is irrelevant to this conversation. The kitchen lights still would not be on the same circuit as the kitchen receptacles, and neither would the bathroom receptacles if the circuit also supplies other rooms.

    In other words, even if they are not working off the 2014 code yet, the easiest thing to do is AFCI the entire circuit because there probably isn't a receptacle location on that circuit for which an AFCI RECEPTACLE can be installed in at a point that happens before the circuit gets into the bedroom.

  • PRO
    11 years ago

    What city are you located in Margaret? I am an electrical contractor licensed with the ESA in Ontario and have been wiring since 1986 in Canada so maybe I can answer a few concerns.