Ordering it "finless" is an option as is building up the trim. Building up the trim should be pretty simple.

Any parts of this plan incorporate any rigid foam on the exterior either? That will bury the window back as well.

Thanks for the response! I don't think we're doing rigid foam on the exterior, but I could be wrong. I see from your page that you sell Okna windows. Do you happen to have any pictures of Okna windows installed "finless" or with trim built up?

I don't have any of the trim built up. We have done a few home with exterior foam and that buries the window in the opening and will give you more of that inset look that you are going for.

This isn't my picture, but you can see how when you either run a finless exterior and set the window in or you have a thicker sheathing via foam or a thicker siding...you can get the look you are going for.

I don’t think you’re ultimately going to be able to get the look you want with Okna double hungs, no matter how they’re set, due to the exterior profile. Your best bet would be casements or another type of window (fiberglass, composite, wood). Here’s a couple of jobs we’ve done in Okna vinyl. You can see the double hung have the beveled exterior, while the casements sit flat.

If its a 2x6 exterior wall and you order the window without a fin, she could push the window in and leave herself with a 2" jamb on the inside and still have the window sit 3.5" inside the outside trim. The deepest part of the window (i.e. screen track) is 4.5" from the inside edge of the window. The 1x4 (better to use 5/4) trim on the outside would provide a total depth at that edge of the trim of over 7 5/8" and the screen could be nearly 3" inset from the screen track if she pushed it all the way to the interior wall. Its all doable but the double hung with the screen track does deepen the window.

That’s all correct, but I think the cove molding is still going to detract from the look she’s wanting. The only vinyl windows I know of with a completely flat exterior are Sunrise’s single hung and Jeld-Wen - neither of which are in the same league with Okna’s 500 or 800 series.

This is with a nail fin.

Thank you all so much! Our exterior walls are 2x4, so unfortunately, that will not help with the depth issue. Perhaps I am overthinking this, but I really just want a house with traditional windows. We are building on 16 acres and would like for the house to look like it's been there for a long time. I know the best way to do this would be some of the upper tier casement windows. However, our house has 67 windows, which makes upgrading cost prohibitive.

Do you think the depth issue would be as apparent on a white house? Here's a rendering of our house to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

I don't think so, you'll probably be the only one that notices.

What are you using for exterior trim?

We are using smooth hardiplank. I think that should come out further than vinyl?

This one issue is what caused us to decide against vinyl windows entirely. We didn't like the protruding/beveled look either, and as mentioned above it was the Jeld-Wen that honestly looked ok to us, but its quality/reputation kept us looking elsewhere. We didn't look at some of most expensive vinyl windows (because once the prices got up into wood/fiberglass territory we weren't interested in vinyl at those prices anyway), but that look seemed to be inherent in all the vinyl windows we considered.

Our wood/aluminum windows are being installed today, and (now that I'm done choking on the check I had to write) I love how they look. We don't have quite as many as you - we have 54 - but enough that the upgrade cost wasn't insignificant. I can honestly say though that the increase was worth it. I'll skimp somewhere else if I have to.

Dbrad - thanks for your input. Which brand of windows did you go with? I'm finding it so frustrating that no one sells a "normal window" anymore. In terms of cost, how much more percentage-wise were the wood/aluminum windows?

Sun Windows

Aluminum-clad Wood

They were roughly 30% more than Jeld-Wen's premium vinyl (that's a negotiated price - original quote was probably 40% more).

Congratulations! We actually are getting a quote from Sun, too. That's not a horrible cost difference.

We didn't think so either. Although we're trying to avoid falling into the well-while-we're-at-it spending trap, certain things are worth spending more for.

I do need to stop finding certain things though.

todd, is that a window or a porthole? Holy moly. Why not just cover the glass with brown trim?

That is an awning window in a tub shower area.

Ok, guys, I have a follow-up question. Our window dealer suggested ordering the Oknas with factory-installed brick moulding to recess the window into the wall a bit more. He also suggested reducing the jamb to account for that additional depth. Any thoughts on this idea?

Also, if we ordered the windows without a nailing fin, how would they be installed?

Here is a picture of the window with the brick moulding. I like the way the brick moulding comes out further than the window, giving it added depth.

Usually vinyl Windows with brick attached also come with a nail fin. If this is the case I would use the nail fin.

I'm not sure if I am understanding correctly.

Thanks for the response, Todd! Sorry if my questions were confusing. I'm interested in knowing (a) whether adding the brick moulding to our Okna windows will achieve the desired look of a more traditional window, and (b) if we ordered the windows without a nailing fun, as Windows on Washington suggested, how they would be installed. Does that make sense?

Not fond of not using a nail fin on new construction.

The window would be installed with screws through the jamb just like on old construction work. It looks like the brick mold would be set against the sheathing and house wrap or on of the board you have there?

you are going to use the 1x trim in adding to the brick mold?

Are you sliding the 1x into the slot where the siding would go?

To be honest, I really don't know where the trim/siding would go. What would be typical?

Typically it isn't typical to use trim around the window when the Windows have built in brick mold.

Ok, then we may not use the trim around the window, but how would the brick mould be installed with hardiplank siding?

I think it would look fine , but it all depends on the look you're going for.

They should be able to use a nail fin in that application

The Okna brickmold has a nail fin that extends out from the edge of it as opposed to some where the brickmold snaps over the fin. It does not have an integrated j-channel. It would work fin in your application and give a nice, traditional look as well as offer the benefit of the nail fin. Personally I like the nail fin more for its integration into the wrb/flashing system as opposed to any benefits from a fastening perspective, but either is fine... Beyond the brickmold, you could choose to add a trim piece in between the siding and brickmold, or run your siding right up to it. Some might opt for that added trim on the front of the home only to save cost on the sides and rear.

Thanks, all! We are still considering our options and have received additional quotes for Windsor Legends PVC Windows, Legacy PVC Windows with Cardinal-Insulated Glass, Jeld-Wen W-2500 Aluminum Clad Exterior/Wood Interior, and Sun Aluminum Clad Exterior and Wood Interior Windows. From a pricing perspective, here is the ranking from cheapest to most expensive: Okna, Legacy, Windsor, Jeld-Wen, Sun. We saw the Jeld-Wen in person at Home Depot and don't really care for it. It looks fairly cheaply made. Any thoughts on how Legacy, Windsor, and Sun compare to Okna?

"Any thoughts on how Legacy, Windsor, and Sun:

From what I know, no comparison, Okna all day.................

Win,win. Best for least.

not familiar with Sun, wood usually is more than best vinyl options.

Thanks, Todd. What specifically makes the Okna better than Windsor Legends and Legacy Products (this is the Legacy based in Richmond, VA, not elsewhere)?

Build quality, performance numbers for U values, air infiltration and DP ratings, history of putting out a solid product and usually backed by solid companies doing the installs.

Thank you! What other brands would you suggest? For me, the number 1 issue is aesthetics. With the Okna, we would have to get the brick mould to try and get close to the recessed look (traditional wood window) we want. I'm just trying to explore other options that may be easier.

Hi Shannon,

To get the desired look, for the look you are trying to achieve, I would recommend the following based on our twelve years as a Windsor distributor/installer:

1) Windsor Legend double-hung windows with exterior moulding factory applied. This will give you the set-back look you are desiring and still allows the Hardie planks to "dive in" to the side of the window trim. We completed numerous homes, that were a farmhouse architectural typology, in the South Carolina Low Country as well as Savannah, GA area with the Windsor Legend series .

2) Windsor Next Dimension classic series with nail fin and no brickmould attached. You will still need to have the window recessed so it is set back, then have PVC exterior trim applied so the Hardie plank "dives in" to the window trim.

If you are using 2 x 4 exterior walls, the builder will have to fur-out the inside of the window wall so the drywall and interior window trim can be applied appropriately.

Hope this helps!

Patrick