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mjtx2

Passive solar windows too hot?

12 years ago

We're building a home and the bulk of the windows (and we want a lot of them) will face south to southeast. I like the idea of the solar advantage, especially with the orientation of the house, but I'm concerned about the place getting very hot, especially in summer but also in the winter.

We have a lake place with a long wall of large windows that face southeast. The townhomes were built in the 80's, and in the winter it gets almost hot, to the point that I had to add verosol screens with the silverscreen backing, which works very, very well to shield the house from the intense heat and also still see the views. But I am concerned the same thing will happen with our house here, yet I see lots of folks singing the praises of passive solar. And I don't want to add huge silverscreen screens in this house. Thoughts or ideas?

Comments (10)

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi mjtx2, congrats on your project. You should absolutely go for Passive Solar. Calculate your South windows in relation to your floor area. Over 12% or so should include extra thermal mass. Be sure you specify High Solar Gain (SHGC) glass for these windows and most importantly: Build Airtight and Eliminate Thermal bridging!!

    Check out the best article on the web for Cost Effective Passive Solar Design:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cost Effective Passive Solar Design

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The key here will be to have the roof eave overhang far enough that you will minimize the direct summer sun on the windows, but allow the winter sun (lower in the sky) to hit the windows for the heat gain.

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW. Thank you for that detailed response. I'm curious why you thought I was in Texas (I'm in Illinois) but your information was still incredibly relevant.

    Our lake place is in a southeast state, much warmer than Illinois, but it still gets much too warm in that place in the dead of winter because of those windows. They're probably not the right windows for energy uses, being built in the 80's, but it does make me nervous about putting a bunch of big windows in my south/southeast-facing great room, even in cold Illinois.

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I figured "m" and "j" were your initials and "tx" your state and the "2" just because maybe somebody else had already taken mjtx. We Texans just assume anytime we see a tx it MUST mean our glorious state. LOL!

    Actually, if you're in a climate where it gets pretty cold in the winter and stays that way for most of the winter, south facing windows are great! North facing windows are the no-no in your area because they expose you to cold north winds and allow heat to escape.

    Google "heating degree days" and "cooling degree days" for your area. If the "heating degree days" number is larger than the "cooling degree days" number, then you're in a cold climate. If they're about the same, you're in a mixed climate. It is only where the cooling degree days are significantly greater than the heating degree days where the stuff I wrote applies.

    I looked up the numbers for Chicago, Springfield, and Carbondale and even as far south as Carbondale, heating degree days in Illinois outnumber cooling degree days by about 3 to 1. So your situation is the exact opposite of mine here in central Texas so much of what I wrote is inapplicable to you.

    For you, passive solar IS about allowing the sun to warm your home through the cold winter months and only secondarily about protecting yourself from excessive solar heat in the summer months. So, YOU SHOULD HAVE mostly south facing windows instead of north facing ones and your windows should be the HIGH solar gain, low emissivity type.

    You just need to make sure you have an appropriate amount of south-facing glass (usually an amount equal to between 5% and 12% of the square footage of your home), appropriately sized overhangs so that the windows are shaded from the sun during the summer months but exposed to the sun during the cooler months, and enough "mass" in your home (brick, tile, etc) to absorb a large portion of the daytime solar energy that you get and release it slowly through the night. If you can arrange to have some deciduous trees growing just outside your south facing windows, you might even be able to go 100% passive solar.

    Orienting your home slightly to the east of due south will be perfect.

    There is a LOT of information available on the web on passive solar design and, unlike those of us in very hot areas, you're lucky that most of what you read will be directly applicable to you. Below is a link to get you started.

    Here is a link that might be useful: passive solar design basics

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I looked up the heating vs cooling degree days - great website. Where we live in central Illinois it's about 6 to 1 - I'm feeling better about the orientation of our house and will be sure to have good overhang (two feet? three?).

    Our place in Virginia that has all the glass and ridiculous heat from it, even in winter, is 4 to 1. Also, it doesn't get nearly as cold down there in the winter months - very mild winters usually, even though they're probably technically classified as heating days.

    Do you think that glass in Virginia is just not the right kind of glass? Maybe instead of buying expensive roller shades I should have just replaced the windows with a better energy rated glass!

    You are a wealth of information, bevangel!

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In the 80s, the glass was most likely not low-e. It would be hard to find windows that allow that much solar gain today. Most windows are going to have low SHGC, lower than you should have on South windows. Don't be afraid of higher SHGC, you are unlikely to get too hot. The key is thermal mass (as has been said). If you do it right, you won't be too hot and your heating bills will be quite low.

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bevangel has some great information above but I wonder about some of the window placement strategies. Even if one has 2x the amount of cooling load does not mean that a home can benefit from proper passive solar design. North facing windows are always an energy loser. Modern South facing windows with high SHGC numbers still have low e coatings but the overhang design is the most important variable to keep out the Summer sun.

    Davids right about your 80s windows. They probably have no Low E coating whatsoever making them net losers once the sun goes down. The overheating issues are probably mainly due to an excessive glazing ratio and improperly sized overhangs.

    Its a little confusing where you are planning your build. Illinois or a Southeast state? If you still havent read the article I linked above, a rule of thumb that works for most of the US is a 1.5' deep overhang that is 1' above the window. Three feet is way too big unless its for a particularly tall grouping of windows and is located a couple feet above them.

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As bevangle pointed out, in addition to overhangs that shade the windows in the summer when the sun is high in the sky, you may also want to consider the placement of trees. If the site allows, well placed trees (or a well sited house) will provide shade to the house in the summer, and when the leaves fall they will allow the sun to penetrate the south facing windows. We left several large trees along the south property line, and they provide a great deal of shade and keep us cool in the summer, and now that the leaves are gone we get a great deal of solar gain from the large south facing windows. We're in the Northeast, and we only fired the furnace for the first time this weekend because of the unusual October snow storm.

  • PRO
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think a problem with this thread is there is a lot of "google smarts" being thrown around. It is not hard to google info and then post it up here to sound like you know what you are talking about. I recommend you do the same...research is your friend, usually more-so then message boards. With that being said......
    Another problem is everyone says "high SHGC", but no one really says what it is or where to get it. I will give you a hint, most US window companies do not offer high enough SHG numbers. Pella is the only one I know of that now offers a sun glass to get SHG numbers in the .50s. This is your target goal. .45 and up is what you should be looking into. Much less you will most likely not be able to achieve solar net gain positive glass. This means your glass will lose more heat then what it will make in the winter. Canadian companies such as Inline and Fibertec have some great glass options with infiltration ratings far greater then any US main stream company. Plus they are fiberglass construction, which is arguably a better window for performance and longevity. You can even get triple pane glass with high SHG numbers and still fairly low u values. Combine that with the added comfort of triple glazing on a cold day, its a win win.....win. However there are plenty of vinyl companies with impressive ratings...if the look and feel of vinyl is your thing. It is certainly not mine.
    A lot of the higher SHG, dual pane glass will most not hit an Energy Star rating, which ironically a properly tuned and placed window will perform better than any typical "Energy Star" rated window. However triple pane ones suggested above can, if that is of importance to you. Energy Star ratings are a joke in general, however they are finally catching up with our European and Canadian friends and will be increasing the requirements for all building products and assemblies.