Broken System...replacing Furnace and AC, need help on quotes

13 years ago

System is running on a patch from local company. We need to replace the furnace and we are going to do the AC as well. We will be in the home for ~5 more years. It is a two story, ~2200 sq foot home, with a semi finished basement (playroom), with very low ceilings (so not technically a room). Old system is a Rheem that is massively over-sized for the home. Two quotes so far (one gave two options), no one did a load test. Both are doing new refridgerant lines, new pad, new PVC, etc. At least they sound the same

Option #1a

Carrier 58MEC100-1-20 2 Stage, 93%

Carrier 24 APA536a31, 3 Ton, 16 SEER Puron

Carrier CIUPUP4821ATA Puron Coil

Cost is $6,010 after credits (local power and federal)

Option #1b

(think this is Base model stuff, not sure if "builder level" Carrier is still solid though)

Carrier 58MCB080-1-16 1 Stage, 90%

Carrier 24 ABB336W003, 3 Ton, 16 SEER Puron

Carrier CIUPUP3617ATA Puron Coil

Cost is $4,800 after credits (local power and federal)

Both of these options have 5 year labor, 10 year parts, 10 yr manufacturor compressor, and 20 year heat exchanger

Option #2

(local dealer, proposal on notebook paper but has good reputation)

Lennox XC14 AC

Lennox G61MPV 95% 2 Stage

Lennox Evaporator coil (no model #)

New COntrol center

New Merv16 Aircleaner

Cost is $6,000 after credits (local power and federal)

Warranty is 10yr parts and labor,

SO aside from the obvious which makes more sense question (which I would love opinions on anyway), I have a few more questions:

1. Old house, built in 1920, with ductwork clearly rigged over the years. Neither said anything needs to be done, but one option suggests variable speed fan and the other adamantly says stay away, so not sure who is right

2. What is the appropriate amount that I should consider (in % terms) for realistic discounts off starting quote?

3. Should i insist on a load test? I think these are either 80K or 100K units. Should they do a real calc? Should I expect to pay for this if I ask

4. Should I get a few more quotes? Should I broaden out the brands reviewed?

Thanks in advance for all the help. I have three little guys so cant wait on this too long, our band aid fix could fail any time. Probably order this week

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Comments (7)

juliekcmo
13 years ago
Which dealer has the better reputation and experience? Don't be afraid of seasoned installers who spend their time working instead of typing on the computer.

Where do you live (more heating, or more cooling used during the year?)

The Lenox offers the highest efficiency furnace.

Since you are getting conflicting opinions on the variable speed fan, I suggest asking the dealer who is against it why, and then asking the dealer who is for it to comment on that .

And lastly, I think these sound like fair prices, and don't really see much room for negotiation.
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tigerdunes
13 years ago
EB

what is your location?

just curious, what size is existing furnace.

I assume quote #1a and #1b is from same dealer? if so, why the size furnace difference?

On option #2, what size is the Lennox furnace.

You need a load calc at least on the heating.

Be aware two stg furnaces require two stg thermostats.

While I like the VS furnace from dealer quoting Lennox, I am not a fan of Lennox.

A good ductwork system is important as to success and satisfaction from new system. Ductwork system should be inspected especially for adequate returns, insulation qualities, and leak test. any hot/cold spots within home need to be addressed for improvement/correction.

I recommend at minimum a good 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet.

I agree with previous poster's comment about pricing.

you need to re-check both evap coil mdl numbers on Carrier quote along with furnace mdl number on #1b.

IMO
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EB10
Original Author
13 years ago
Man, you guys are awesome. I expected to wait at least a day for someone to respond. Let me try to answer the questions:

1. Where do I live? In Maryland, between DC and Baltimore. You guys know better, but I feel like this climate is split evenly between running AC and heater
2. Dealer reputation? One is very very large regional with a good reputation, but like all Companies that scale, you can find unhappy customers if you look. Other is a state company referred to us directly. Small sample size, but two references were solid
3. On thermostats, both two stage proposals come with new thermostats...the 1 stage uses existing. so hopefully ok there
4. Existing furnace is 120K BTU
5. The Carrier quote commented on the ductwork, but really didnt dig in. The other guy noted it. When, and how, should I press on what needs to be done. Are they inferring nothing needs to be done? Hard to imagine they would miss a chance to charge for more services
6. Load calc...do they do this? how much do they charge?
7. Carrier 1a - 100K, 1b 80K. Lennox 2 - didnt write, but i think he said 100K (second speed at 60K
8. Did i misquote the model #s for all the coils?
9. They both mentioned the filter cabinets, vaguely, and said they were ~$50 and would be replaced annually.

Hopefully I gave the answers to get more responses. Thanks again in advance. I truly appreciate the help
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tigerdunes
13 years ago
EB

you don't need more than an 80 KBTU furnace-90+% efficient. however, I would ask for a heating load calc. dealer should perform this at no charge for the business.

Carrier 90+ condensing furnaces come in 60-80-100 KBTU sizes.

Lennox 70-90-110 KBTU sizes.

recheck mdl number of evap coil on both Carrier quotes and furnace on #1b as well as Lennox furnace and coil.

you should have an air filter cabinet on any new system-looks like the Lennox dealer included one.

two stg thermostats are needed for two stg furnaces.

IMO
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ryanhughes
13 years ago
Wonder why the Carrier dealer is so turned off by variable speed technology. That's certainly the way the market is moving, both in indoor units and outdoor units -- not just fan operation but also for system capacity (multiple furnace 'stages' and compressor 'stages').

Is any of the ductwork accessible? Any deficiencies should be taken care of. Often variable speed fans can help improve airflow because they automatically adjust the motor RPM to maintain a constant, programmed CFM (airflow measurement, in cubic ft/min).

The Carrier coil is probably supposed to read CNPVP3617ATA.

I think the Lennox quote is certainly the nicer of the three strictly in terms of equipment quoted.
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tigerdunes
13 years ago
EB

as usual I agree with Ryan's comments.

two thoughts.

1.You have indicated that you plan on being in this home about 5 yrs.

2.Carrier quote 1a has a much nicer AC condenser than 1b quote.

let us know if you have further questions.

IMO
Good Luck!
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mike_home
13 years ago
I would stay away from the Carrier Base model. These are builder's grade furnances. You will be happier with the Carrier Performance model.

I am leary of the Carrier contractor who quoted two differenct size furnaces. One of these is the wrong size! Did the contractor explain to you why he did this? A 80K furnace sounds correct, but you have a 90 year old house. You should have a manual J calculation done to make sure.

This is the busy season. It is hard to negoiate a better price. I would ask for a review of the duct work. You can't expect a furnance to work well if the duct work has problems.
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