It’s possibly an Alba (bluish, matte foliage) but Im not familiar with this exact variety Where/what state/climate zone is this?

Thank you, Paul. It is in NorCal near the coast.

If the canes are mostly smooth, it could be 'Chloris'.

:-)

~Christopher

I so appreciate the reply, AquaEyes. There are moderate thorns. Chloris looks close to this, from the photos, but I would say my mystery rose has more petals. Also, it's not especially fragrant, which I see Chloris is supposed to be. Also seeing Chloris grows about 6 feet. This one is definitely taller than that. Maybe 8+ feet.

Alice Flores needs to take a look at this . . . It's her general area.

Maybe 'Spectabilis'?

:-)

~Christopher

Oooh - the shape of the rose, itself, is super similar. You have a wonderful eye, Christopher. The height of the plant is right, too. But as I'm looking at photos of Spectabilis, all of them seem to show the rose turning white in the center as the bloom ages. That's quite a distinctive look, and my mystery rose doesn't seem to do that. Also, the foliage of Spectabilis looks too glossy. Tantalizing similarities, though. I surely do appreciate your suggestions!

High Country Banshee gets this tall. I don't see photos in HMF but High Country Roses has three.

It reminds me of small-flowered centifolias like Spong.

Chloris is much lighter.

Thank you Shiela and Mad Gallica. Yes, when I first saw the rose, it reminded me of the centifolia or damask (opinions differ) Petite Lisette, but that one is much too short. I had glanced at High Country Banshee as well. Does anyone know how large the flowers are on that? High Country's site says Denver rosarians say the rose is something else, but they don't say what: https://www.highcountryroses.com/shop/old-garden-roses/damask-roses/banshee-high-country/ Anybody know?

This really is a mystery rose. One thing to consider is that I expect it's been there for quite a long time. The house it's at is an old Craftsman, and while that doesn't mean the rose has been there for so long, the bush looks old and is against a rather old, rustic fence. The property also has a new rose on it, though - David Austin's Pilgrim, which I expect has been there for well over a decade. In fact, I even asked myself if this could be some sort of David Austin, as well, but I just don't think so. The flowers are so small and the plant is so large. So, someone planted at least one rose somewhat recently only the property, but the mystery rose looks old and is ... mysterious.

..do you think this might be it? assuming it grows larger in northern California, or over a very long time perhaps... it's sold by Rogue Valley Roses sometimes..

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I have Petite de Hollande (the one in back of it -- just one blossom -- is another rose, whose name I have lost track of). Petite de Hollande is not especially tall, though

Could it be 'Bella Donna'? 'Bella Donna' is supposed to be tall, with very small, perfectly formed flowers, but unlike your unknown one, powerfully fragrant.

Inspiring guesses from both Marlorena and Monarda! Thank you. The flowers of both Bella Donna and Petite d'Holland are the right size, and look similar to the mystery rose, but the plants are too short. Gosh, those are both beautiful roses, though. And, no, definitely not fragrant, and I have a good nose for roses.

'Bella Donna' is a synonym for 'Great Maiden's Blush', which is a large bloom (for an Alba) of about 4 inches in diameter, and a very warm pink, not to mention exquisitely fragrant.

Its not 'Chloris', I'm pretty sure of that. 'Chloris' has more grass green foliage and is intensely fragrant as well, and it has a more sophisticated, larger flower. Pretty sure the mystery rose isn't 'Petite de Hollande' either, same reasons.

'Spectabilis' isn't a bad guess, but 'Spectabilis' is a warmer pink, with blooms more in the Noisette style than cupped/quartered like an Alba/Centifolia. 'Spectabilis' has glossier, greener foliage as well, whereas the mystery pink has very blue-green, matte foliage, like an Alba.

I see two class styles in the mystery pink: Noisette and Alba. It's architectural style and bloom presentation remind me a bit of 'Manettii', but clearly that's not it. The bloom cluster style and size says Noisette to me, but the bloom shape is Alba/Centifolia. Very perplexing. And yet it looks familiar.

Bella Donna is supposed to be quite tall, not short. So it is just the fragrance that is missing. Of course you would have to study the botanical features, which is hard from a photograph.

Paul, I am sure those names must have traveled about from one rose to another: here is Leonie Bell's 'Bella Donna', which she was sure was a damask, though now thought to have been introduced quite a bit later than she thought it was: https://hedgerowrose.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bella-donna-size-reference.jpg

Paul, agree with you that the shape of the flower is in alba/centifolia/damask territory. I do wonder about the plant, itself. Almost like a polyantha. I'm so grateful to both you and Monarda for trying to solve this mystery.

Did you knock on the door and ask the homeowners? 😜

Could your rose be R. alba 'Blush Hip'? If I can manage to untangle my young plant from the mass of roses growing in my driveway "nursery school," I'll drop you some photos. Your flowers have the right color shades, the fragrance could match depending on climate and nose, my BH has some thorniness and the plant at my last house probably grew close to the same size as yours. I see your blue-toned Alba-ish foliage. The blooms on your plant might be more refined than BH, though. I'll see if I can find a rain-soaked bloom for a photo.

Also, since I'm on the topic, sites like Heirloom, David Austin and RVR record BH's bloom size as 3-4". HMF doesn't note a bloom size. My current BH is youngish, but still. Compared to an adolescent La Ville de Bruxelles or Konigen von Danemark, BH's bloom are nothing like the size of those when they were young. I could swear my mature BH never had 3-4" blooms either. I remember mine covered in flowers sized similarly to your rose. My current BH came from Pickering right before it closed and back when I was on a mission to collect all available Albas. It has been living its short life smashed into a nursery pot. Hopefully the poor thing has a new home lined up. It's ready to break free and spread its roots!

Does anyone else out there grow Blush Hip? Am I off track?

Carol

Okay, I found some phone shots of my Blush Hip from 2 years ago, I'll post them in a sec. In the meantime, there's a great pic of BH on Rosomane's blogspot. She has such gorgeous photos! Her BH image does somewhat resemble your rose. There's a bloom close up pic and a full plant pic. But I think the blooms are indeed too large? Carol

http://rosomanes.blogspot.com/2011/05/old-garden-roses-albas.html

Young R. alba 'Blush Hip' blooms

BH foliage

Just a thought before I shut down for the night. I'm not sure I'd rule out Petite Lisette. The Petite Lisette at my last garden hit 6' tall and may have grown higher. I just checked HMF, and it states "height to 6'7". If your rose is a really old and established one...and roses can grow huge in CA, right? I'm thinking 8' is certainly possible.

You've probably already considered this, but in case it strikes you differently when I mention it, fragrance in "very fragrant roses" can vary greatly nose to nose. My husband swears that our Hybrid Tea 'Black Magic', which I say and even HMF says has no fragrance, is powerful to his nose. Really? And I have a friend who can hardly smell the delicious scents of my Damask and Portland roses, not even those I consider to be two of my most fragrant in the classes, La Ville de Bruxelles and Jacques Cartier! Hour of day and age of bloom can make a huge scent difference to my nose, too. If I catch a bloom at the wrong time, I suddenly think I've contracted coronavirus and am losing my sense of smell!

Just some additional food for thought . You have absolutely hooked me with your gorgeous unidentified OGR and your post. Thank you for the delightful mystery. I can hardly wait to read what happens next! Carol

I think I finally remembered what I was thinking of, if that makes any sense. Gros Choux d'Holland. The Gros refers to the plant, not the flowers.

Over the years, enough people have commented on the variability of scent, that it is a hard clue to use.

The 'Gros Choux d'Holland' at my job doesn't quite look like that, but you made me think of something else -- "Fantin Latour". Maybe?

:-)

~Christopher

Fantin Latour has larger blooms than this mystery.

Wow, more great comments! This discussion is so fun. If Jacques Cartier is an 8 in fragrance (I have one and consider it about an 8/10), the mystery rose is a 2 to my nose. Blush Hip's variegated appearance in the photos seems quite unusual, but the mystery rose isn't colored in that way. I walked up to see it again today and the clusters of flowers have become absolutely astounding, all packed together in clusters as big as the head of a snowball hydrangea. I am going to try to take a few more photos. I know mine aren't great ... I'm not a very good photographer. Maybe with better images, I can help us get closer to the answer. I'm just so grateful for all the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drews volunteering their time and thoughts on this!

B eaver, I can see why Paul and Christopher mentioned Noisettes. I found 3 shots I took of a mature Manetti growing in my neighborhood and thought I'd drop them into the thread for comparison. As Paul mentioned, the bloom isn't a match, but the habit and foliage are very similar. Carol AKA Nancy D

Here are 4 new photos I took today! As I mentioned, the clusters of flowers are absolutely enormous. They remind me of those weeping double ornamental cherry trees, the puffs of gathered blooms are so big and cloud-like. Crossing my fingers these photos might lead to an ID.

Hi B Eaver! It kind of looks like "The Albrighton Rambler" from David Austin. I don't think the leaves match up quite right, but the flowers look really similar. I sure hope that someone will identify that rose. It's gorgeous!

Good luck,

damask_rose : )

Oh my goodness!!! Edhelka - Laure Davoust is the best suggestion yet. I am looking into it more and the big puffs of flowers, the size of the flowers, the size of the plant, and the individual rose shape and size match really closely. Damask Rose - I agree Albrighton is similar but the flowers look a bit more globular than the mystery rose. Laure Davoust is more of a very close match. Anyone know more about Laure Davoust they can share? Anyone growing it?

Oh, yes! Definitely looking like an old rambler now. Carol

I think Edhelka hit the nail right on the head! I looked up the rose on helpmefind and the pictures and description matches your rose exactly! Here is the helpmefind page for it: Laure Davoust.

The more I look into this, the more I think Edhelka is right! It just really matches. Thank you so much, Edhelka. I love the alternate name Fiddeltown Pink Noisette for this rose. But is it really a noisette? I'm seeing "hybrid multiflora" too, which I don't really understand as a class. I'd love to know more about this rose and I want to thank everybody for all your awesome guesses and suggestions!

I found it by pure luck... My first ideas were in the alba-centifolia-damask range but only because Paul mentioned noisettes, I added them to my helpmefind search too. And I found it 2 days ago and ruled it out because there were no big clusters in the first photos. Then after seeing the new photos, I immediately remembered seeing it.

I don't grow the rose so hopefully someone who does or know it well can confirm it.

It's an exquisite rose!

Definitely!

WOW what a stunner of a rose! - We stumbled on your post after searching for the Lauré Davoust rose and agree with the possibility that the ID is the best match for you. Bearing in mind that if this rose is the result of a seedling it will be unique, the only one on the planet! Only a gene test from a sample would truly give you the best and most accurate ID for sure. You could also take some cuttings which would produce an exact replica of your truly wonderful find. Inspired to delve further we are trying to ID a much deeper pink type rose that we have seen in many a Scottish cottage garden.