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Window wall help

3 years ago

So I am looking to install a very large window wall. I had a few questions


1) how important is thermally broken aluminum if there is little metal in the system

2) what are drawbacks other than cost of large glass 13ft x 6ft especially since it seems these large ones don’t have warranty

3) is laminated glass or insulted glass better


thanks!

Comments (28)

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    1. Depends on where the home is.
    2. Cost is the biggest one and engineering (i.e. long term durability, storm resistance, and ease of use) are the others.
    3. Depends on the location again. Insulated glass and minimum energy values are mandated by code in many places now.
  • 3 years ago

    Windows that large either need to be structural like a curtain wall, or have a lot of engineering work on the structure around them.


    The large glass is difficult to handle and the window itself will have some strange reflections as the glass deflects and is not perfectly flat.


    Depending on you climate - it can be really cold, or, make things uncomfortably hot. If you want privacy, they are harder to cover.


    Done well, they can be super dramatic - but just make sure you have covered all the bases on structure

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I agree with the comments above . This size of window is best planned at the build stage and used like a commercial building construction to handle it. Maybe a nana wall would give you the same feel . IMO no matter what it has to be at least double paned , insulation is needed no matter where you live and in some cases this size of window would not be to code anyway. I love nana walls they are stunning to see and the fact that they can open is IMO amazing.


  • 3 years ago

    Describe the layout of this "window" wall? How many pcs of 13'-0" x 6'-0" glass? Drawings/Elevations/Renderings? Glass cost goes up astronomically once you pass the 50 sq ft threshold (at least in the commercial world). Extra engineering for the system is required. More manpower for sure to be able to move the units and for safety. Equipment very well be needed and equipment costs get passed right on.

  • 3 years ago

    @just_janni @Windows on Washington Ltd i am having a commercial/residential glass company make me a curtain wall. It is an existing opening and the large glass wall will go inside. Before I was going to have it broken up by a horizontal mullion but they can do it withoit and just three large vertical pieces. The only catch is on the pieces will be that large size and it isn’t warranties. I can do laminate or insulated glass or bring back the horizontal mullion. I prefer the large glass look (mid century front of the house) but don’t know how likely it is for the glass to be a problem and which type to choose. i am in a temperate climate in California

  • 3 years ago

    Do tempered over laminated insulated for sure. Curtainwall is a solid choice.

  • 3 years ago

    Code will required tempered, I think.


    If you are somewhat shaded and not in direct crazy sun I don't see this as an issue. You are temperate enough to go with glass that large. But - I am not sure I'd be comfortable with that. I have some 10x10 windows that have pretty good size frames and one horizontal mullion more like a transom. They are triple paned and really beefy.


    For something that large - boy - that just seems fragile. We had a bird or something hit a 5x8 or so piece of glass and shattered it (its tempered and laminated so it's currently just looking like cracked glass) but I can't imagine how fragile a 6x13 would be - and the amount of flex in the center - but sure would look cool.........

  • 3 years ago

    @just_janni do you have a suggestion for type of glass or you just think it’s too big regardless of type of glass chosen? These are sloped glass by the way so first piece is biggest and then they get smaller and smaller

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    If the large piece of glass ever breaks, you get to experience the cost of the large piece of glass all over again.

  • 3 years ago

    @Mark Bischak, Architect so you never recommend the large pieces? you don’t know of a way to make they less likely to break? I’m happy to just add the horizontal mullion. I prefer the vertical alone but if dumb I don’t need to

  • 3 years ago

    The additional information about sloping makes this more complicated to add the horizontal element, IMO.


    It's hard to make a judgement or recommendation without seeing it on the elevation.


    If I am imagining it my head right - I'd perhaps introduce some vertical elements to split it up with the aluminum mullions if the height changes.


    But again - REALLY HARD to do without context!


    Personally, I would not feel comfortable with glass that large UNLESS is was absolutely critical to the design. MCM is usually long and low so the 13x6 is kinda throwing me off on how it fits in a space.

  • 3 years ago

    I work with large glass pricing and handling all the time (commercial glazing estimator). It is not really an issue if you can afford it and the installation. Now you are throwing a wrench in it in my opinion with the "sloped" part. What is sloped and what curtainwall system are they using? Do you have drawings?

  • 3 years ago

    @just_janni@millworkman



    Note the two designs, one has horizontal which is basically what currently is present with wood but I like the look of no horizontal. These are the two curtain wall sketches. let me know if this changes your opinions

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Is the plane of the glass on a slope or is the top edge of the vertical glass angled?

    I have recommended large pieces of glass under proper conditions.

  • 3 years ago

    I would look fine, IMO with the horizontals if there was a consistent line for all the window / door headers.


    If the sliding door is lower than the front door (as drawn) then I would not do the horizontals in the large glass panes - because you're eye would always be drawn to the "thing" that didn't match.


  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Fleetwood is a window manufacturer that has some history with larger windows. Link.



    Incredible Lakehouse Getting the Fleetwood Treatment: Part 1 - YouTube

  • 3 years ago

    Yeah that's not sloped, those pieces would be considered a raked rectangle. You could easily do one pc or two pcs. I would go for the horizontal at the same height as the door headers, definitely.

  • 3 years ago

    @millworkman not possible due to last window being less than 8ft and door is 8 ft. I can level it with the slider but the it would be at eye level from the main room and there are ocean views. @dan1888 mt whole house is fleetwood but they can’t do this size raked

  • 3 years ago

    I would explore insulated units using laminated tempered glass with a correctly chosen interlayer.


    "An alternative to a PVB interlayer is using strengthened or stiffened Ionoplast structural interlayer. Originally brought to market by DuPont SentryGlas® and more recently by Kuraray to name a few, Ionoplast provides a stronger coupling effect between the glass panels which increases the strength of the glass structure well beyond traditional PVB limits. It allows for higher loads with the same glass thickness which is ideal for hurricane or high impact areas, or potential reduction in glass thickness compared to alternative options for the same load requirements. It’s also optimal for glass balustrades exteriorly, due to its clearer properties and lesser susceptibility to moisture absorption.

    Another alternative is ethylene-vinyl acetate (EVA), which offers long-term weather resistance to moisture. And just like PVB, it provides a level of impact resistance." Wagner 1-888-243-6914

  • 3 years ago

    "@millworkman not possible due to last window being less than 8ft and door is 8 ft."


    I meant at the height you currently have it in your sketch which appears to be the height of the sliding door to the left of the main entrance an I believe that looks fine. What area of the country are you in. Dan mentions the same thing I mentioned above with Tempered over Laminated. Location dependent absolutely nothing wrong with PVB interlayer for the lami.

  • 3 years ago

    I bought this house with this massive window wall and instead of one giant piece it’s a bunch of Individual windows all connected I the structure of the frame. It was designed as south facing so sun can shine in in the cold winter mornings and warm up the room and provide a decent amount of natural light. It isn’t well insulated so once sunlight isn’t coming through it is very cold, and in the summer that area is unbearably hot, as in you will burn you feet on the flooring hot but it’s such a cool feature of the house. Just know our electric bill is massive die to the lace of proper insulation on this wall, but it’s great to sit by and look out or gaze at the full moon through

    Ours also is now going on 40 years and when it rains really badly it leaks and we are not looking forward to the repair costs to reseal and paint the wall

  • 3 years ago

    @millworkman southern california

  • 3 years ago

    Are you in the area that required Title 24? Not sure how to get you there but I know it is pretty strict requirements.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Laura Young -Your south facing wall could have been designed with enough roof overhang to shade your interior when the sun is high during the summer. When the winter months are here the sun angle is a lot lower. The right overhang would let the sun shine in all the way across your space and add warm. The overhang would also add some protection from rain.




  • 3 years ago

    The windows and that side of the house look odd and off balance to me...ocean view or not.. i dont see the view value in the windows being so high or even that low...so much solid wall and then two features crammed together are unexplainable ..there could be something much more aesthetic and architectural that would be more interesting if we had more info about the home....the “all window” style also potentially limits the possibilities for the interior decor...and maybe even re-sale...let alone becoming a heating and cooling issue...

  • 3 years ago

    @btydrvn the house is mid century and the windows are already there. They are single pane so I want to update to double pane for noise ano energy. the house is full of windows so stylistically it is appropriate the question is just what design of windows

  • 3 years ago

    @millworkman i found a company that can build curtain wall windows. Does it matter if the aluminum is from a big company vs made in house if they provide specs. Is there some sort of government regulation that would mean name brand aluminum is better. I ask because a window company told me to avoid any metal extruded by a company

  • 3 years ago

    An extruded aluminum curtainwall system needs to be engineered and approved my the manufacturer in a basic sense so unless it is some off the wall imported Chinese system (they do exist), you should be ok. If you want to email me the brand name I can look at it for you. My email is millwork4u@gmail.com