indygal44

Yes or No to EasyWater water softener by Freije

indygal
January 15, 2008

We're building a new house and trying to decide if the EasyWater system would be a good one for us. Indiana water is very hard on appliances plus we're tired of hoisting those bags of salt. Does anyone have pros or cons about EasyWater?

Comments (182)

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding

    The technology used in the Pelican system does appear to have promise. However I would personally have a very difficult time doing business with a company that uses such ridiculously fallacious scare tactics to sell their product. Either it works or it doesn't and the science will bear that out, but their explanations about softening and RO are riddled with intentional misinformation.

  • conservativephantom_gmail_com

    Just a quick post regarding the dishwasher issue:

    Since this summer all dishwasher detergent mfg's have stopped using phosphates and that is the big reason behind the machines not cleaning properly.

    Read about the issue here:

    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2010/07/phosphate-ban-dishwasher-detergents-phosphorous-level-review-of-best-dishwasher-detergents-cleaning-.html

  • brickeyee

    Might be worth adding TSP to the DW with each load.

    The phosphate free detergent is VERY poor.

  • mikeguy524_gmail_com

    I am no expert/engineer but I do know when a product works. After years of dealing with a traditional salt based water softener I came across the ScaleBlaster which claims to be a green alternative to a water softener. I was def intrigued and decided to research further. Yes, it was a sales rep that I initially dealt with but after speaking with their engineers their as well and seeing the independent studies complied, http://www.scaleblaster.com/TheScaleBlasterScience.aspx I figured I would give it a try. It has done all that the company, Clearwater Enviro Technologies, claims it will do. Scale around faucets, dishwashers, shower heads, etc has been removed. Now, there is slightly more spotting on shower walls and glass but this was explained to me before I bought the item. Because the minerals are left in the water there will be some spotting due to evaporation. But because of the molecular structure of the altered calcium and magnesium, the spots are easily wiped off with a dry cloth. Even with my water softener, scale build up still occurred. Because even with a water softener, not 100% of the minerals are removed so there for all it does is prolong the scaling process. And in order to remove the spotting, or actually the scaling, that a water softener leaves behind you must use chemicals and scrub. My water does feel softer, but without the slimy feeling that a salt based water softener gives you. I use just as little soaps and detergents as I used when I had a softener and my clothes still come out as bright, colorful, and fluffy as they did with a water softener.

    Now I am not going to claim that I fully understand how an electro magnetic frequency induced by a coil wrapped around your incoming water line can alter calcium and magnesium but I will tell you this, I don't care how it truly works as long as something works.

    After all, what are the true benefits to having a water softener...softer feeling water (not so harsh on your skin), protect appliances from wear and tear, reduced use of soaps and detergents, etc. Now whether those benefits come from a product that can be measured, i.e. a water hardness reading with or without a water softener, or not...even though there are studies and microscopic results showing that a electro magnetic frequency physically alters the minerals that cause hard water...does it really matter as long as you get the results you are looking for?

    I just feel that if you care about your bottom line financially, and about the environment, then going with some kind of alternative to a salt based water softener makes sense and I full heartily condone the advance in science and use of alternative methods of giving a soft water feel.

    We must all remember, the introduction of a microwave took 40 years to become a household item because of skeptics...and look where we are now, we wouldn't live without them.

  • justalurker

    Where I live the water runs about 30 gpg hard with fluctuations throwout the year.

    I have 0 hardness (because my softener is correctly sized and properly set up for efficient operation).

    We get NO, let me repeat, NO water spots on glassware or shower doors.

    Average life of a water heater is 1.5 to two years.

    My water heater was installed in late 1995 and I get nothing but clear water when I drain it once a year.

    Water heaters are not cheap and neither are plumbers.

    My softener has paid for itself 4 times over just in not buying water heaters.

  • mchub532_yahoo_com

    My profession is a city water treatment operator. It's been my profession for 19 years now.
    I know that using Ozone where I currently work it changes the polarity of some elements which gives them a neutral charge and helps our process settle them out far easier. It has obvious other applications but one of the side-effects of using Ozone is the changing of the polarity of some particles in the water.
    I have to ask... if Ozone can do that to a particle.
    Why can't electricity change the polarity of a particle?

    I tend to look at things scientificly and thus I ask questions and examine before ever coming to any conclusions.

    I am still asking questions and observing and learning but to state that you can not change the polarity of a particle is a falsehood. You can.

  • justalurker

    I don't believe any of us are questioning whether or not the polarity of a particle can or can't be changed. I don't believe that anyone is questioning the science that any of these products claim in their advertising that their products are based on.

    What the thinkers on this forum, like you, are questioning is the real life in the field performance of any of these products and what do they actually achieve and is that achievement associated with what they claim their products do.

    With any independent scientific review or evaluation of the products themselves conspicuously absent we are left wanting for hard data and test results.

    Descaling technology is a reality and supported by hard data but mostly from commercial applications and the process seems to be incorporated in environments where softening the water is not the sole intended purpose.

    In a residential environment with hard water, softening is what people are looking for both for cosmetic and preventive maintenance reasons. It's no coincidence that all these no salt devices initially called themselves no salt softeners and then did the backstroke in a real hurry when challenged. It's also no coincidence that most of these devices are only sold online or long distance where, when a customer is not happy the seller can't be stared down eye to eye.

    JMO...

  • mchub532_yahoo_com

    I appologize for wasting my own time posting here. After reading all the responses on this thread it is quite obvious that there are a couple water-softening salesmen that are here just to shout down and insult people to make consenting though just go away.
    I will seek elsewhere for more intelligent thought.

  • justalurker

    Carl,

    If you're looking for people to blindly agree with you and to tell you what you want to hear then this is not the place.

    There are people here who think and question the same as you profess to do. when they take a position they defend it with facts and data and logical argument and the discussion begins... and sometimes never ends.

    Don't post and run... defend your position or is it you that has an underlying economic interest in water conditioning?

    Perhaps you'd be happier at this forum... http://watertechonline.com/board.asp It is a forum for the water treatment professional.

  • brickeyee

    "Why can't electricity change the polarity of a particle? "

    Because electricity is not ionizing.

    The charge to change anything has to come from somewhere.

    While electricity can be used to break down water releasing hydrogen and oxygen, it is still leaving a net charge of zero.

    Ozone works by attaching a free oxygen atom (O3 breaks down to O2 and a free oxygen atom) to anything it manages to come into contact with.

    The free oxygen is not charged (still neutral) but is extremely reactive.

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding

    This somewhat takes the conversation ona tangent, but for pity's sake, please do not explain complicated chemistry by breaking it down to inaccurate simplicities. If, as you said, a free oxygen atom were neutral, it would not be extremely reactive. This is BASIC chemistry. An oxygen molecule, O2, is essentially neutral, but a free oxygen, has a negative charge, which is WHY IT IS SO REACTIVE - it is seeking a neutral state.

    Ozone is a strong oxidizer, but this does not necessarily imply that it simply adds an oxygen to anything it sees. With metals for instance, changing the oxidation state results in a change in charge, the end result being entirely dependent on composition of the solids dissolved in the water. On it's own in a gaseous state, ozone (O3) breaks down to oxygen molecules (O2) 2 O3 ---> 3 O2.

  • brickeyee

    "If, as you said, a free oxygen atom were neutral, it would not be extremely reactive. "

    Wrong.

    It is neutral and looking to fill a single valence electron spot by bonding with something.

    O2 is formed by a covalent bond were an electron is 'shared' between the two atoms.


    Oxygen does not normally rely on ionic bonding.

    Ozone is not stable because only a single electron shell is needed to form the covalent bond of O2.

    O3 breaks down into O2 and a free oxygen that rapidly combines with anything it can.

    If there is another free oxygen atom it will form O2, but it cal also bond onto many other things.

    This is why it is effective at removing odors, killing bacteria, and other handy things

    THAT is basic chemistry.

  • kirschke

    A couple of years ago I placed an Easy Water unit at my pump house on the ranch. I have a large water softner (salt/resin)but because of the expense of salt I tried this "miraculous" system on line. Well, absolutely no difference in the raw water and the Easy Water. It would take a miracle for it to start working. There goes over $1100 and high hopes.

  • hperini_ptd_net

    Easy Water is a fake, phoney ,and fraud.
    A wire wrapped around a metal pipe can not induce an electro magnetic field inside the pipe. The metal pipe acts as a short circuit preventing the magnetic field from penetrating.
    So it is not even a question as to whether calcium ions are magnetic since the magnetic field can not even reach the calcium.
    My credentials:
    35 years experience as senior microwave engineer.
    So if you want to be scammed of $1500, buy Easy Water

  • waterscam

    I just spent an enjoyable evening reading this forum. I became interested in EasyWater several years ago when my neighbor installed a tankless water heater and was told he needed the EasyWater to keep the sensor in the heater clean. (He was also sold a maintenance contract to clean it.) After the EasyWater installation, he let the salt in his water softener run out. A month later, his wife set out to buy new dishes because the old ones were gray. He has kept the water softener filled with salt since. A local radio personality who advertises EasyWater confesses that he also has a water softener for similar reasons.

    I am under the impression that EasyWater claims to use radio frequency, not magnetism. I am not sure how much the RF or magnetism is obtunded in the copper pipe. It would seem that a very simple experiment could be performed running the treated water through pipes filled with scale and an untreated control through similar pipes. It might also show how far from the installation the water remains "treated"�.. 30 feet to the shower head? Since these treatment vendors are more interested in advertising and testimonials, it is doubtful that they would do such an experiment, or report any unfavorable results.

  • hank4162_yahoo_com

    Let me start by stating that I am an FCC licensed RF engineer. I wound up on this site trying to find unbiased user reviews on electronic water conditioning systems as my water softener has bit the dust.

    Forgive my long post. When I read in an earlier comment that EasyWater uses radio frequencies to induce a current in the water I became immediately skeptical of the "proposed" science. All of the terminology regarding Ampere's Law and Faraday's Law of Induction are being used out of context to what is being described as the operating principals of systems like EasyWater.

    Radio waves don't induce a current (Faraday's law) in a conductor (copper pipe) unless the pipe is a tuned circuit, which it isn't. Neither do they penetrate the pipe to even reach the water inside the pipe. Radio signals, therefore, have no effect on the water in the pipe and would cause no current flow in the pipe itself for too many reasons to elaborate on here. Radio waves are useless in treating water.

    An earlier comment about the signal being strong enough to travel beyond the bathrooms, while well intended, makes no sense. Water can't carry a signal therefore there is no signal to distribute throughout the house. Impure water can conduct electricity but only between two opposite polarity electrodes. These systems do not operate on any principal that involves electrodes. Therefore, the water does not carry a signal anywhere.

    Ampere's law describes magnetic fields that form around conductors (wires or pipes in this case). If you were to apply a magnetic field to water, it might change the orientation of ferric minerals in the water (think iron) but the orientation of the minerals will fall back to random (their original state) immediately upon leaving the magnetic field. Calcium and other non-ferric minerals wouldn't be affected by magnetic fields. There is no chemical change to water that has passed through a magnetic field. Magnetism and therefore Ampere's law as a mechanism are useless in treating water.

    Finally lets assume that EasyWater or other systems of similar design claim to operate by inducing currents in the pipe. The problem here is that in order for a current to flow in the pipe, the pipe must be a closed circuit. In other words, the pipe must loop back on itself to close the circuit. House plumbing is technically an open circuit to induced currents so no current will be induced in the pipe or water.

    If companies claim to operate by radio frequencies then their claim of any functionality is entirely bogus. If their claim is to treat the water using electromagnetism the claim is equally bogus. If they claim to induce a voltage or current in the pipe to treat water it too is bogus.

    The independent research paper was pulled from AquaGenesis' web site as It apparently didn't pass muster. So I went to their "how it works" page and was disappointed. They describe an electric current as the principal of operation but in their diagram they point to a magnetic field in the diagram. Buzz - wrong! Then on a different page that explains the process, they claim an electric current is induced in the pipe. So which is it? Magnetic fields around the pipe or electrical current through the pipe? Claiming magnetic fields around the pipe on one page then electric currents through the pipe in another pager are entirely contradictory and therefore suspect.

    Another problem that concerned me was that the very few published studies on the principal of operation of these systems are not peer reviewed studies. Most were underwritten by the device manufacturer or articles published in dubious trade magazines. There seems to be no reputable journal published studies that demonstrate any functional principals behind these gadgets work. The few reputable studies I could find found they don't work.

    Well, after reading this page and visiting the manufacturer's sites, and reading the dubious research papers, I won't be spending the money on one of their systems unless someone can convince me there is some other technology in use that they're keeping secret. Again, sorry for the long comment but I thought I would share what I learned.

  • jherrod_neb_rr_com

    I couldn't imagine the Easy Water would work but then I don't understand TV nor micro waves. I bought a hopeful solution to numerous problems. My 25 year old Kinetico was leaking and cycling too often. My floor drain, despite numerous attempts to clean was no longer handling the discharge when cycling took place.

    All my water, cold and hot was on the system except one faucet in the kitchen for drinking, cooking and plants. I even had one outside faucet softened for car washing. My barn has unsoftened water off the same well for a toilet and sink. The scale build up out there was terrible, nothing in the house. Carrying salt into the house was becoming difficult for me, will be impossible for my wife if I go first. I knew the Kinetico had to go and so before I replaced it which would require major work on the floor drain and finding somebody to deliver salt I bought the Easy Water. If things start to scale up like in the barn I
    might just have to let it happen but the Easy Water will go back. Right now I'm encouraged. With the softened water we couldn't use it or the water from the unsoftened faucet to make tea, coffee or hot choclate. We had to get water from the grocery store. If we were having company for iced tea or cocktails we needed store bought ice. Otherwise the drinks would have floaties. Bourbon with good ice and water would be clear and light colored. With our old water and cubes it would be dark and cloudy. (Still had a pleasant effect). Presently we think we are seeing some improvement. If before the 90 day warranty runs out we think it is working we'll keep it. If not it will go back. Easy to install, easy to uninstall.

  • moddriver83_embarqmail_com

    Hey I bought your device on your word that it worked PS IT DOESN"T DO
    > JACK. I was given the run around for several years back and forth with
    > your company sending u emails with pictures of the condition of my
    > plumbing and kept being told give it time. It could take up to a year or
    > more until it completely takes effect. BULL. Its is going on three years
    > and I am still continuing to have the same problems I had before I sent
    > you a bunch of money with a promise that you had the solutuion. If you
    > take the time you can reveiw the emails I sent and the pictures I sent I
    > just finished taking all the plumbing fixtures water inlets appart which
    > is pretty much a quarterly event since I put in Easy Water. You can
    > contact me because I want someone from your company to come to my house
    > and test this thing as I requested when it never appeared to work from day
    > one. If not you can read about them on the may websites that claim what a
    > fraud FREIJE is and I have detailed pictures of what i clean out of my
    > plumbing to this day to post with it. So whats it going to be stand
    > behind you product and make the trip to NJ because that is all I ask or
    > hear about it on my friend Glenn Becks Program. Thank you Bernie Kelly.
    Been tryng to send this to anyone at EASYWATER seems all of their email address are shut down. I have the before and after pictures of the deposits in my pipes to prove the thing is a major scam. Now I am trying something I fabricated myself which takes the hot water as soon as it comes out of my heater and picks the mineral chunks out of it before they get into my faucets/showerhead/and anywhere else you don't want them. It seems the only problem I have is in the hot water as I have a tankless hot water heater and according to Easy Water idiots they work in conjunction with the tankless people. So will know in a couple of weeks if my fix worked. If anyone is interested email me I will tell you what I did and how it worked or not.

  • birdy_selin_gmail_com

    Can I just say this?
    No one yet has said " I'm not with the water softener companies..." and no one has said " I'm not with the EasyWater companies." I find that very interesting that no one will own up to the claims put before them. And, really, who has to believe that you have x number of years as a chemist. Just critical thinking out there people on who is contributing to this page.

    My parents use a salt water softener. They still have poor water pressure, but some of that is from the mesh filters over their faucets that my husband took out when he noticed their pressure sucked.

    And, how is salt bad for the environment? NaCl occurs in the environment. Putting both Calcium and Magnesium back into the ground doesn't seem so bad to me. I'd be more worried about the dish detergents we use and the toilet bowl cleaners, hair dyes, and the plastic boxed food we put in our bodies. Um. Yeah.

    My only credintials: Nursing student.

  • djames313_yahoo_com

    I am a registered professional electrical engineer. The major tip off to me that EasyWater is very likely a scam is the same usage on copper and plastic pipe. Other indications in my experience are the smooth marketing aspects used without any hard facts. Also I see no mention of the power required to run the unit. The fins are heat sinks and are substantial. With the 'signal wire' carrying a current from that size of power electronics package I would expect the plastic wire insulation to melt. I wonder how much radio frequency radiation is generated by such an antenna formed by the 'signal wire'? By the way, have you ever seen one a unit of this type used in a nuclear power plant to remove ions from the reactor cooling water? They use resin beds. I will stay with the chemical process of ion exchange. There is no "physical process" at the ion level.

  • prostudio_hotmail_com

    would be like asking your electric company for advice on what chemicals to treat your pool with. Sorry guys, you may be chemists, but you're obviously not familiar with advanced physics as it relates to magnetics. I don't blame you, my parents couldn't have imagined a jet breaking the sound barrier, then one traveling over Mach 3.5 only a few years later. Or dragsters producing 10,000 horsepower and reaching 330mph in a quarter mile. Some things happen wether you believe them or not.

    Yes it DOES work. Even FIXED magnets work, and they've been used for decades in industry under names like Descal-A-Matic.
    Otherwise why would the guy post it almost destroyed the cooling towers.
    What was happening is they either had the magnets on backwards or weren't following the directions which require them to DRAIN the water as the scale dissolves into the water.
    If this was all bunk, they wouldn't have seen ANY effect.

    The problem is, if you have OLD pipes that have a lot of scale, it makes the water HARDER. I put a set of Magnetizer magnets on a house built in the 1800s (obviously some of the plumbing is newer than that). And similar to the previous poster attested, it (the scale dissolving) almost ruined my dishwasher with scale buildup that wasn't there before i put the magnets on.
    The question I have is, how many years would it take to completely descale old pipes and a 10 year old water heater? You could only tell by cutting open the plumbing.

    The bigger question would be is EasyWater worth as much as a water softener, or is a $50 set of magnets bought from Heartland America just as effective? There were/are other electro-magnetic softeners that cost around and just over $100 also, btw.

    As far as why the water treatment companies wouldn't want to sell a little box
    or magnet instead of an expensive salt using, eco polluting system or swap-out exchange tanks where softeners have been made illegal. Easy, why also wouldn't the bottled water companies just sell people $150 Reverse Osmosis filters so they could make their own water? It's money they would no longer make off the consumer.

  • ryan_taftwiley_com

    We have been investigating Easy Water for some time. I met with their sales people and found that one of the largest tankless water heater companies have been testing the Easy Water products, along with others with their tankless systems. They found that a new system looked new after 6 months and a "caked up" system from hard water was significantly cleaner after that same period of time. Still skeptical, we did nothing. I attended a water purification class for CEU's and te instructor happened to be from that same tankless company, who is also an expert in water purifcation (hence the reason he was teaching this course)I spoke with him afterwards and he confirmed what I had been told previously. They were continuing their testing in different locations, but were very impressed with their findings thus far. Our owner then put one in his home. He has noted that the lime buildup that used to be on his dedicated water dispenser is gone. Less soap is used. All of the claims appear to be true. and YES -- he had a softener in the house. He has had it for several years. It had been shut down for a couple of months before the Easy Water was set up.

  • wrkllc_embarqmail_com

    So after the point of treatment with one of these easywater things, How far downline does it take for the scale to regain its stickyness? 1 foot, 2 feet, 10 feet? Have not seen this angle talked about anywhere. Or do you need one of these at every POU (point of use), (sinks, toilets, hot waterheaters, etc...) or will one just before entering the home work? How about well water sytems, one at the well and one at the home entry point? questions, questions, Not enough good answers.

  • jones71_sbcglobal_net

    east water is not a softener, it a conditioner, prevernta scale from building up in appliances, and shower heads. Nothing saya softener in their ad. Iron Shield made by easy water is a saltless softenr, I own one and it works wonderful, no mor salt ever

  • Denmarbla_yahoo_com

    Anyone who is looking into this type of water softening, you could just flush that money down your toilet and whoosh your water is softened , at least as soft as it was before. Save yourself a lot of dollars and skip this "miracle " .

  • conron_lie_com

    We�re really confused over Easy Water. We have a h2o softener, 20" Carbon filter and potassium permanganate system.
    Have been thru 4 hot water tanks in 12 years. Rusty toilet etc. We�re extremely desperate for good water.

  • duffy-patrick_msn_com

    After reading this post, it has become clear to me how easy it is to deceive uneducated people. These same 'magic magnet' scams have been on the market for years and there are still 'belivers' out there, including 'fule saving' scams based on the VERY SAME IDEA that magnetic fields can somehow change the chemistry of the gasoline!

    Here's a list of some of the claims made for permanent (and alternating field) magnet fuel savers, culled from a few minutes work looking around on the internet. Or as I prefer it, a list of what magnets do not do:

    Attract hydrocarbons.
    Align hydrocarbons in neat little rows.
    Polarise or charge gasoline molecules so the fuel breaks apart.
    Disrupt molecular clusters of gasoline.
    Ionise gasoline.
    Convert intake air to provide more oxygen.
    Lower surface tension of gasoline / coolant.
    Improve fuel burn through magnetic resonance.

    Magnets don't do these things because they can't. They certainly don't do things like this piece of science-sounding BS, describing the mode of action of the 'fule saving' devices. Here is a quote from a 'true believer':

    "In a similar way that water conditioned by magnets mixes with other substances more readily, fuel conditioned by a strong magnetic force carries more energy and mixes more readily with air resulting in a more complete combustion. i.e. more energy and less waste from the same amount of fuel."

    The fuel scammers are using the 'EasyWater' scam as PROOF that their scam is true! AMAZING! Not very good science to use one scam to prove another. One post said that EasyWater removes the positive charge from the hard-water ions, but never explains where this REQUIRED ELECTRONS comes from! I have worked with ion beam technology at Applied Materials (creating semiconductor wafers for such companies as Intel corporation), using charged particle beams to dope wafers. These 'ions' are created with very strong electric fields and an electron beam created in a VACUUM, with very high currents.
    Positive ions are created when the electron beam collides with a neutral particle, 'knocking out' an electron from the molecule, (creating an ion). When the field is removed, the electrons 're-combine' with the molecules, which causes a nice emission of a photon (pretty colors), and the particle is once again 'neutral'.
    The problem is the a magnetic field alone will not create an ion (or supply an electron no neutralize it). Magnetic fields can 'stear' moving ions, (as we use magnetic fields to 'focus' the ion beam), but to create the ions, you need 'ionizing energy' to be applied to a molocule. A magnetic field applied to a 'non-charged' particle will not effect it, so you must first ionize it, and EasyWater cannot do that with just a simple alternating current in a wire! The only effect an alternating magnetic field has on an ion is to 'vibrate' it in space, while it is passing by the field! As soon as the field is remove (or the water moves past the unit), the 'ions' return to their initial condition. A permanent magnet will move the ions in the direction of the field (according to the right-hand rule of magnetic fields), so the positivily-charged hard-water ions will move toward the 'North' pole, (slightly deflected), but otherwise unaffected, and negatively charged ions will move to the 'South' pole. Here is a link to 'actual' science on this subject:

    http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107Lab/Lab5/Filters/Lab5Exp2filters.html

    Dissolved salts have positively charged metal ions like sodium ion (Na+), potassium ion (K+), calcium ion (Ca+2), copper ion (Cu+/Cu+2), and dozens more metal ions. The negative half of these salts are chloride (Cl-), fluoride (F-), carbonate (CO3)-2, nitrate (NO3)-2, hydroxide (OH)-, arsenate (AsO4)-3.

    In theory, it is possible to separate these 'positive' and 'negative' ions in water with a fixed field applied to
    Moving ions, which produce a magnetic field, so an external magnetic field can move the ions accordingly, but without an 'ion exchange' there is no way to remove them or keep them from 'sticking' to your pipes! Once the field is removed, diffusion will 're-mix' these ions in the solution. No amount of testimonials can refute these truths.
    I am still waiting for Java44 to post again.

    EasyWater is a scam. Those of you who still believe in it should examine your mind to see if there is some sort of 'placibo' effect going on.

  • jkblack2008_gmail_com

    Easy Water is a scam. It may take minerals out of water but leaves them wherever it touches. It is totally unsatisfactory and people should be warned.

  • gasladysocal_msn_com

    I have been checking out your posts on the Easywater systems. Having been married to a plumber pipefitter for over 25 years I would like to share one of his favorite sayings with you. "Why do engineers wear neckties?" "So they can pull their heads out of their A$$E$. So all engineers who posted most likey have never applied anything regarding easywater, they just keep yapping on theory. So consequently the only way to know whether it works or not for me would be to install one, think I will do just that and report back, that is if the engineers will believe I am just a plain ole consumer and not a sales person.

  • maimmer1_yahoo_com

    maybe this should be submitted to Mythbusters!

  • dzstroke015_gmail_com

    I happened across this thread, not because I'm considering getting an EasyWater water softener, but because I'm looking into non-salt water conditioners. I should have realized from the title of the discussion that it is a perfect set up for water softener shills and bigots who offer little information, constantly repeat misinformation, and use the term "bias" as an excuse for lying.

    I am now more intrigued by non-salt water conditioners, because the fervor (including name calling and baseless sarcasm) of the water softener advocates tells me they're protecting something (e.g. their financial interests or old time ignorance). aliceinwonderland states over and over, in various forms, ad nauseam, that EasyWater doesn't soften water. Well, duh! Anyone who's looked into non-salt conditioning already knows that, so alice's argument can only persuade the uninformed.

    On a forum like this, who is who they say they are? alice claims to be a "chemical engineer with 10 years of water treatment experience," but can't understand how calcium minerals can remain in aragonite form after passing through a coil. While demanding proof that these systems work, alice doesn't even faintly acknowledge an understanding of the simple chemistry of polymorphs. Already lacking credibility, alice's use of "perspective" instead of "prospective" and misspelling of "astronaumical" indicate a lack of education. (alice didn't go to Cal!)

    And what's with old engineer, who can't figure out how an electrical field can pass through copper and plastic pipes? Seriously? Does he have trouble with the concept of water flowing through copper and plastic pipes? Okay, that's unfair, but a true electrical engineer wouldn't have trouble with such simple electrical fields. And old engineer asks if we've ever seen a nuclear power plant use an EasyWater type of unit. Gee, when was the last time we built a nuclear power plant in America?

    This kind of uninformed by bias or straight out lying has rendered this discussion virtually useless. Shame on you!

    Sam

  • tsipresidentcliff_yahoo_com

    You know I did my research on Easy Water and the Freije Water treatment systems and read through all of this blog and a few others like it, started by "experts" and "chemists" none of who own, have ever owned or ever interviewed any of the tens of thousands of satisfied customers and hundreds of commercial clients like Wal-Mart, Arby's, Frito-lay who not only use the Freije commercial systems, but will use nothing else to condition their water. www.easywaterblog.com gives you a list of more of their commercial clients who have been with them for many years. I actually went and interviewed at their home office in Greenfield Indiana and wanted to know about the company, reputation, products if I was going to represent them and work for them. I can tell you first hand that building is immaculate, 35,000 feet the people, staff, and owners some of the most real and genuine people you will ever meet. I not only am a very satisfied customer but a satisfied employee as well. I have no agenda and I don't hide behind a clever email address or name. I have studied water for two dozen years and those experts who think it is nothing more than hydrogen and oxygen with some ions attached to it simply demonstrate their ignorance of the complexity and beauty of water. Real experts know that an electronic current can, does and will alter the characteristics of water, as well as the minerals in the water. Calcium and Magnesium, your hardness minerals, have a very high electrostatic charge and when exposed to extreme temperature changes (+ or - 20 degrees), or pressure, the minerals come out of solution and adhere to the lining of pipes, fixtures and any surface they can cling to. The Freije technology, which has numerous patents, and was created by a Mechanical engineer from Purdue University (Bill Freije) through hundreds of thousands of real world trials and applications completely and effectively alters the minerals so they are unable to adhere to any pipes, fixtures and reduces the surface tension of the water so that it actually dissolves back into itself any existing mineral build up in the pipes, water appliances etc. And this has been demonstrated over and over by REAL Commercial, Industrial and Residential Clients throughout North America. You can see actual pictures of altered minerals at www.easywater.com. The company has been in business since 1986 under the SAME name, has 1 Corporate home office, and an A+ rating with the BBB. Do you really think a "scam" or ineffective technology in today's information age could last that long? How could we do National Advertising 4-8 times a day on Fox news, and be endorsed by 2 of the largest 3 talk show hosts in the country, who ARE CLIENTS and OWN our systems if it was bad technology? Ask yourself, who are these "experts" really and how many patents have they applied for and gotten? What have they invented in their lives besides this blog and a story line of disinformation and half truths to validate their outdated diploma and beliefs that the world is really still flat, that human beings can't fly, that light cannot come from lightening, that model T's will never replace horses, that sand can never be used to create computing power, etc. etc. etc? Salt Softener technology was discovered in 1921 by Emmet Culligan. Sound familiar? Yes 1921. Do you really think that technology and advancement has and can only occur in every area of science, life and the world EXCEPT WATER? You're much brighter than that. The Salt Softening Industry is a multibillion dollar dinosaur that has long outlived its usefulness and has become very destructive to the eco-system and the human biological system. Do your research about the damaging effects of salt water discharge. The average softener discharges 10,000, yes TEN THOUSAND gallons of Sodium Brine Water into the rivers, aquifers, and waterways EVERY YEAR. The entire plumbing industry makes about 1/3 of their monies on Softener Installation, Service, Repair and Replacement. Service contracts sound familiar? Connecting some dots yet? Old industries and ideas don't like to die or be replaced by new and more innovative ones. Marconi, Bell, Edison, Wright Brothers, Einstein, Ghandi, Firestone, King, Gates, Tesla, Mozart and many other visionaries went against the "experts" and traditional thinking and technology and changed the world and our lives but not without a fight from the mediocre minds of their day. Stop reading the 1921 old world thinking experts who are NOT clients and will never BE clients because they don't WANT to see and KNOW the truth about a technology that is sweeping the country and replacing the 1921 model because this new technology works. And it is and will replace the 1921 systems and model and thinking. The company offers a 90 day Try and SEE for yourself model with 0 risk to you. What softener company offers that? They can't because once it's installed, you own it whether you want it or not. So stop buying salt and this ridiculous story line that props of the egos of self proclaimed experts and Non Clients and discover for YOURSELF the truth. I did. And I am glad I did. In fact, call the company yourself for the facts, or call me directly if you dare 317-336-3694. I'm extension 161 on the main number. There is a very old phrase that is applicable here: The Truth shall set you free. Find out for yourself what it is. I dare you. You have nothing to lose but an old expensive to maintain salt system and sodium in your water. Cliff

  • russengs_rogers_com

    Cliff,
    I notice that your email address contains the word "president". Are you the president of Freije Water Treatment? Just curious.

  • rtj2_sabinmetal_com

    Chemical physics: Electric or magnetic fields on the out side of a copper pipe have no effect inside the pipe. Check out "electromagnetic shielding" as in "Faraday shield". For a plastic pipe the field will penetrate but as with so many of the other responses will have only an effect in the neighbor of the field. Ca++ and Mg++ cause the scale, soap scum etc.
    As to testing in real life I was bombarded with calls a few years ago to allow a test of the system in our metals refinery. (I was technical director of the company at the time). After countless refusals I finally told the very persistent salesman that he could come at his own expense and I would have representatives of our engineering, maintenance, analytical and environmental staffs on hand to observe an "in factory" test. After a full day of testing the sales rep departed, a downhearted man.
    Dr. Bob, PhD Chemistry

  • andya1950_gmail_com

    Can't we all just get along? No, we can't. Can't we just reveal the facts? No, we can't.

    Water softener shopping has 'bout worn me out. And after reading this 'factual debate', I'm more confused than ever.

    While one engineer/chemist (holy man sounding), claims he'd stake his life on the fact that EasyWater DOESN'T work, the next equally holy engineer/chemist stakes his life that it DOES work! Which one is lying? Don't know yet.

    One housewife swears her Easywater system works and the next housewife swears her EasyWater system don't work.

    I just yanked my Culligan system out. It's sitting in my garage taking up space. I'm thinking of putting it on Ebay for open bids; somebody else can drink salt for five years on a high bid.

    So the salt thing is OUT for me forever, and so I wound up here trying to get some facts on what to use THIS time around, but I just got personal politics instead.

    I'm not buying another system until I KNOW - until I see proof - that it will work. Yap, yap, yapping from either political party, won't get my money for the next water softener system to go into my house.

    I'll post again AFTER I figure this out, but I'll not cut every water pipe in my house as part of a 'before and after' test, just to prove one side - HEREIN - to be right or wrong so's they can say SEE, TOLD YA!

  • robkatheprophet_hotmail_com

    purchased this unit three years ago and it was a complete waste of money. The water in our house is as hard as ever and the company would not refund my money. I can't believe this company is still in business.

    PLEASE DON'T WASTE YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.

  • john_electronicdescaler_com

    Well said Cliff.

    We have been going since 1989, having introduced the technology into UK and latterly (1991) into the USA (Scalewatcher).

    Many products now available are a copy, patents are only good if the copier makes money from it to make suing them worthwhile. Its only the lawyers who get rich on patent actions.

    A quarter of our business is hotel-standard accomodation for the UK Ministry of Defence and they would not still continue to purchase from us if all the hot water systems we have been protecting over the past 7 years were found to contain scale during the annual inspection.

    RIBA (Royal Institute of Architects) would not have bestowed an award on us if after their due-diligence they had concluded we were not effective at what we do.

    I do not care which technology is used to prevent scaling, but for our children's sake lets stop throwing things away that get damaged by scale, wasting water and energy etc. At this rate we will exhaust raw material in a few generations, copper is already in short supply
    John Thompson

  • pmorty73_ymail_com

    I have very hard water and have a Culligan system. I heard the EasyWater ads and thought I would get it to save the money on the salt. I usually research this, but for some reason, I didn't google it. I installed the EW system and within 1-2 days, the formerly softened water became noticeably hard again. My wife complained about the shower water, and the dishwasher (a Bosch) was full of mineral deposits after a few washes (and it wasn't working as well as before--scaly glasses, food stuck to the plates, etc.).
    By coincidence, my Culligan guy came to change my RO filters, and he noticed the EW and just laughed and said "Yea, we see these things showing up every decade or so. I first saw these in the 70s." By that point, I was already pretty sure that something was not right with the EW, and the Culligan guy was the tipping point. I sent the EW back and got a full refund. Feel like I dodged a $1200 bullet with that one.
    Give it a try if you'd like, but if you're replacing a salt softener, you'll notice the quick deterioration of your formerly soft water. If you don't have a salt softener, you might think something is happening (placebo/wishful thinking) to your water, but from my experience, this is a total scam.

  • jam_ward_yahoo_com

    Yes I have a degree but I will still try anything just to prove it to myself. I have not bothered to read this entire blog so forgive me if this has been mentioned before. I have to wonder since there seem to be satisfied customers and dissatisfied customers that there must be something to do with what chemical elements make up the scale of the different water systems discussed here. A true qualitative analysis probably costs more than it would to just simply purchase and try the system but for those on public water systems it may be prudent to at least call your local municipal water plant and ask them for the most recent analysis results and see if Easy Water will confirm the system will work or not. An honest salesman should do the right thing if he truly wants to gain confidence in their product. I worked at various factories with refrigeration systems that used evaporative condensers for cooling and boilers. In one location the water produced so much scale that we seriously were considering a reverse osmosis system. I left before the money was ever approved for that so I don't know how it worked out. The main thing is that the scale problem there was not calcium or magnesium but rather dissolved silica. The water felt slimy. It didn't taste terrible but everything that was not scrubbed everyday built up a white scale that was near impossible to clean. It would be interesting to know if the Easy Water system would have given any help in that case.

  • water_tech_juno_com

    I am a retired chemical engineer and have specialized in water treatment for over 30 years.

    I have had a Freije Easy Water conditioner since 2004. It has performed in every way claimed by the company.

    No, it doesn't REMOVE the hardess from the water. It merely changes its form so that it does not form a scale buildup on piping etc.

    The best indication of success has been our shower head. Our house was nearly 20 years old (without a sodium cycle softener) when we installed the Easy Water. I cleaned the shower head at that time. In about 6 months, I had to clean it again and I haven't needed to clean it since (6 years). It has actually removed 20 years of scale from the house piping.

    I believe because I have used it successfully for 7 years.

    All such water conitioners are not equal. I don't know about the others but I know this one works!

  • cwilkins11_gmail_com

    I just purchase an Easywater system after 3 years of hemming and hawing about what to do about my hard water problem. I have a Rinnai, and spoke to a field technician about the tests they did with Easywater. He wouldn't endorse the product, but did say that the system worked well in San Angelo, TX where the test was performed. I priced Kinetico and other salt type softeners earlier this year because I was beginning to get concerned that I would have to replace my Rinnai (which will be 4 years old in October). We are a single income family and the salt options were really out of our price range. I also didn't want to remove the minerals from our water - our water tastes great. But I need my Rinnai to keep working.

    We built and moved into our home in 2007. Within 2 months we began to have flakes showing up in the aerators of sinks, showers and the hot water line on the washing machine. Easywater said three years ago they could solve these problems, but I read this forum and was very skeptical.

    Last week, I got an email saying they were running a sale on all systems. So I got the 2200 system for $999, and they gave me a 120 day (typically a 90 day) money back guarantee. I haven't had any type of softener on our house since it was built and we moved in back in 2007. So far, I can't notice any difference (it was installed Friday - July 1, 2011, so we're only on day 5). I'm doing my best not to look for any changes, but to evaluate where I am at 45 days, and then again at 80 days. I don't intend to put the 120 day MBG to the test. If I don't see improvement by day 80, I will be getting an RMA to return it. I'm pulling for this thing to descale my water heater, sink sprayer and shower heads. We really haven't had many problems with our dishwasher, but we have always used quantum tabs from finish and jet dry.

    Our water was tested earlier this year by 3 different softener technicians (installers / salesmen). Though the results varied, the conclusion was the same. I have a hard water problem. Iron isn't an issue at all. I simply have hard water at ~11gpg.

    I see that some folks haven't reported back. I intend to do so. People need some options to help them make informed decisions. This is the only place where I could find "independent" information. Unfortunately, I'm not a chemist or engineer, so I don't understand half of what most of you people are saying. You're like the teacher on Charlie Brown to me. And the name calling and blind defense of salt without even considering that this technology MIGHT work tells me that some people may be defending something. Maybe not - maybe they are just passionate about what they do.

    I'm rooting for technology here, because it was a better price. If it doesn't work, i've lost nothing. Either way, I intend to report back with my results to help others make a better decision for them.

  • forklift_daddy_yahoo_com

    I've seen and heard both sides of the "isle"...but if anybody wants to SEE whether it works or not...why not ask the people who had the systems installed and invite them into thier home and SHOW them and PROVE whether or not the EasyWater system really works or not...SEEING IS BELIEVING.

  • balabadoochi_yahoo_com

    Would the electrical currents from this contraption corrode the metal plumbing in my house/property? Any sort of corrosion at all?

  • mymark64_gmail_com

    I have been following the chat concerning Easy Water.If Rinnai recommends it & National talk radio endorses it, I'm willing to take the 90 day money back test. I'll let you all know what happens to us. In our neighborhood the water leaves a calcium type of buildup all over our appliances. We regularly have to replace water heaters & ice makers every 3 years. The shower heads clog & there are a number of slab leaks as well. If this cures our troubles then we'll all be happy.

  • sroosheerz_garrifulio_mailexpire_co

    No offense to the working stiff, but...
    Why would you trust a plumber with a Chemistry/Physics/Engineering question?
    How many plumbers have you had recommend you drink filtered or bottled water? I've never met one. But health professionals know that Chlorine, Lead, even Fluoride are all toxins.
    Did the debunkers answer why engineers who run cooling units on large buildings and skyscrapers have been using FIXED magnet descaling systems for decades?
    Would a naysayer household plumber want to step up in front of one of these guys and call him a fool for buying into a fake scam?
    Hell no, you know the engineers would have been fired if they wasted thousands and in some installations tens of thousands on worthless equipment.
    The truth is it DOES have an effect.
    The REAL question is, which product from which company.

  • russhammond_sbcglobal_net

    Installed a system and noted that after several days the dishwasher heating element scale build up disappeared and the element looked new - so Easywater must be doing something.....
    However, for some reason, months and months later the scale build up on the element is starting to return. The Green lights on the Easywater box are illuminated indicating the system is working.
    So it was working - as indicated by the element clean-up but now I may have a problem.

  • ivan_keener

    Good Afternoon Alice / ALL,

    First off THANK YOU ALL. I am much more
    informed after reading this post. I am not an engineer nor a Chemist. I am homeowner
    looking for some coaching from some VERY intelligent people (you all)

    I am looking to do something with my water. Was
    looking at EasyWater but scared now.. It is expensive and I hate to give money away
    as it is hard to come by in today’s economy. I sent my water in to get tested
    by Easywater (see results below) but
    after reading this post I do not trust EasyWater as I see the professionalism form
    some of their reps who posted earlier. I am on a well. I will do whatever it
    takes to get my water drinkable and to STOP stains. Would you mind giving me
    some advice?? What do you recommend? Should I get a new water test?

    Iron 2ppm (iron stains at
    .3ppm)

    Hardness 29 gpg (7gpg is
    hard and 10.5 gpg is extremely hard)

    pH 7.8

    Manganese was not detected.

    TDS 498 (you shouldn’t
    drink over 250ppm)

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding

    Since you are on a well, get a test done at a certified lab - your state's website will most likely have some listed. You want the following analysis:

    1. Hardness
    2. pH
    3. TDS: there is not a single reason you shouldn't drink water over 250 ppm TDS
    4. iron: Is your water clear coming out of the faucet or does it have color? If clear, just test for ferrous iron. If the water has color, test for ferric iron as well.
    5. sulfates
    6. nitrates
    7. bacteria
    8. alkalinity
    9. Any other items recommended by the water lab - there may be something specific to your area that they look for.

    Then I suggest talking to local water treatment pros and see what they recommend.

    Once you have analysis in hand, start a new thread and post the results, along with:

    1. number of people in your home
    2. any high water-use fixtures such as a multi-head shower?
    3. plumbing supply line size

    At that time I can provide treatment recommendations or help you evaluate bids from local pros.

  • Markus Coon

    i understand that taking the hardness out of water cant be done with magnetics, but have you heard of the bars that are put in waterheaters that atract hard water so it doesnt build up in the heater. if someone was to make a box that your water travels thru with a bar like that in it and replaceable, could that reduce hard water. i live in an old house and have no place for a water softener . i am handy with my hands and wondered if that would work

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding

    Sacrificial anodes are placed in water heaters to prevent corrosion damage. Is that, perhaps, what you are thinking of?

    And the answer to your question is that if such a bar existed, and you installed it in the way you describe, the box would fairly rapidly fill with calcium solids and plug, at which point you wouldn't have water flow at all, so, technically, no hardness either.

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