Questions about clematis from a newbie

8 years ago

Earlier this spring I purchased two clematis. One is called Polish Spirit and the other one is Ernest Markham. I'm growing them together on the same trellis. They are doing great so far and Ernest has a number of buds about to open soon. I would like to know how to go about pruning them. I know there are three different categories of pruning for clematis but I can't seem to find enough info about which types they are. I think Ernest is type 3 where you prune them to 1 feet off the ground in the spring. I'm finding conflicting info on the other one. Any help? Thanks!

Featured Answer

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

The best source of information on specific kinds (species and hybrids) of clematis is Clematis on the Web. If you use their "Clematis text search" you can fill in whatever part(s) of the form you want (such as name or flower color or height, etc) and leave the rest blank and it will give you a list of names that fit your and link to a whole page on each. The only tricky thing is that it doesn't like spaces, so with a name like Ernest Markham, only type in Ernest or Markham but not both.

This is what they say about Ernest Markham:

If pruned as a Group 2 (light prune) the cultivar gives a few early flowers which are sometimes double. The main crop of flowers is in late summer and for this reason many people treat the form as a Group 3.

Polish Spirit is a type 3, so it will be easy to prune both as type 3, which is trimming down to 1 or 2 sets of buds any time between the onset of winter and when they start growing again in the spring. I prefer doing it in December or January before the snow gets too deep so that I don't have to look at dead vines all winter. When clematis are sharing a trellis, it's easiest to have them all the same kind of pruning since it's often impossible to figure out which vine came from which plant and impossible to remove some without damaging others. If you want, if there are a few of EM's vines off to the side, you can not prune those to see if you get a few early double flowers; the whole vine doesn't need to be trimmed the same way.

Many folks will hard prune type 2 clematis for the first year or two to make the plant fuller sooner.

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Comments (9)

mkpearse (MI z6a)
Original Author
8 years ago
Thank you so much for your indepth answer. I'm excited to see them flower and I may not have to wait too long!
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Nicole Vabre
8 years ago
NHBabs,

Great link! I just purchased a Niobe & am also finding it's prune group conflicting on different sources! I have a Jackmanii that I "inherited" when I bought my house several years ago, so Niobe is the first clem I actually plant.

Thanks for posting, MKPearse!

Best,

Nicole
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
8 years ago
'Niobe' is group 2. Shouldn't be any confusion with that :-)
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Nicole Vabre
8 years ago
Well, there IS confusion for myself since some sites say group 2 & others recommend group 3, as well as the tag attached to it said 3. Yet another website said that it straddles group 2 & 3, so it CAN be confusing for a clematis newbie like myself. ;)

BUT, since I'm in a colder zone (4b/5), it would make sense for me to prune it as a 2, as well as it blooms on old & new wood, which I read earlier today & answered my question. :D
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NHBabs z4b-5a NH
8 years ago
As a practical matter for me, several of my type 2's end up pruned as 3's by mom nature (die back to the snow line or even below if we have really cold weather before there's good snow cover) so the distinction isn't important for me on those plants. Niobe is one of those that I've never any of the vine survive the winter.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
8 years ago
Sorry - I didn't mean that comment to be flippant, only that all the sources I consider as being authoritative on clematis list Niobe as a group 2. And I wouldn't put a lot of weight on information provided by plant tags - they are notoriously misleading and often inaccurate. FWIW, the vast majority of the large flowered hybrids - like Niobe, Nelly Moser, Henryi and many other popular selections - will be pruning group 2 vines.

It is important to remember that clematis pruning instructions are only guidelines - you can choose to follow them or not. It's not going to make a huge difference to the plant, except to possibly delay or limit flowering if you prune harder than suggested, or if you opt not to prune at all. The one suggestion I would make is that you prune hard regardless of pruning group for at least the first season. This helps the clematis to develop a big healthy root system and reduces the chances of wilt going forward.

In my old garden, I had a vast collection of clematis (about 60) from all three pruning groups and it was just necessary because of time constraints to approach pruning as efficiently as possible. So I narrowed down the pruning groups to 2 - prune or not prune! Anything that bloomed exclusively on old growth (very early bloomers, mostly species clems) were not pruned unless growth became unruly. Otherwise, everything else was pruned back hard, like a group 3 (except for a tangutica growing in a 25' apple tree which was unreachable and left unpruned). All flourished and bloomed, although any group 2's may have been slightly delayed with their bloom cycle with this practice.

The point is these vines are adaptable and flexible and it is not necessary to be absolutely precise in your pruning methods :-)
Nicole Vabre
8 years ago
Good to know what to expect from Niobe in our zones, NHBabs. And lots of great info, gardengal48 - thank you much!

Not only am I a newbie to clems, but flowers & growing things in general, ha! In the past my younger self had so-so experiences with annuals - because of my own neglect & simply not wanting to put the time into it. I'm now a stay at home mom & care about things other than myself (haha!), I've found great pleasure in trying my hand at growing things & the satisfaction it get from it. I'm learning, slowly, and I'm just glad there's forums like this where inexperienced wannabe gardeners like me can go to get advice & learn. :)
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NHBabs z4b-5a NH
8 years ago
Nicole, since you are a newbie - don't get discouraged from growing clematis if Niobe doesn't do well for you. It is the least enthusiastic grower of all the clematis that I grow. If you decide you want to add some, there are lists of good choices for newbies, or you can ask here what does well for folks in cold zones.
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