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dbrya1

Trachycarpus Fortunei Fronds

16 years ago

I notice a lot of your guys fronds are stiff and straight at the ends,where mine are always bent or curvy.

Does this mean I might have a different variety of fortunei than the rest of you?

Comments (33)

  • 16 years ago

    I also am curious. One of my fortunei is just as yours is, while the other has very thick stiff larger leaves and seems to be growing much more vigorously than the other.

  • 16 years ago

    I'm not sure at all but it seems if you google trachycarpus fortunei more pics show the fronds sticking out straight. If you google trachycarpus takil more pics show the fronds bending down but I'm not really sure what the difference is. Just try it I guess.

  • 16 years ago

    You know dbrya1 I just did a search of my own and I'll bet you anything the ones where the leaves bend down are takil or at least part takil. Here see for yourself. Whats your opinion.

    Takil- http://members.cox.net/joeb29/trtakil.jpg

    Fortunei- http://online-media.uni-marburg.de/biologie/botex/mallorca05/bildgross/trachycarpus_fortunei.jpg

  • 16 years ago

    Fortunei


    Takil
    {{gwi:1115143}}

    Yep,this is exactly what I'm talking about.
    I bought mine which was grown from Monrovia Nursery in California,I wondering if it matters which coast you buy it from,west or east coast?

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks for posting the pics dbrya1. I wasn't sure if it was legal to post the fortunei pic because it has a little copyright thing on it. I think it'll be fine. Anyway, that's got to be the difference between fortunei and takil. Does anyone else agree/disagree? Although takils from what I've seen start out nice and straight like fortunei. I guess they're too small to bend.

  • 16 years ago

    Hmm,didn't see any copyright thing on them,but really didn't look that close.
    Well yes they do start out straight until they reach full size,and before you know it next time you look at it there bent!
    Well maybe someone who knows more than we do will comment on this!

  • 16 years ago

    I think it varies depending on the plant.
    Dbrya1-that palm in the first photo u posted looks like it had the wind beat it up. that's how mine looks in the winter for the past several winters. In the summer, with less high winds, they grow nice again.

    That large palm you have listed as fortunei is actually a waggie or waggie/fortunei hybrid. the fronds are smaller on a waggie than a fortunei. I'm leaning more toward a hybrid though.

    It would make sense that takil fronds are naturally more bent than fortunei, seeing as they're larger, so they catch more wind and snow, bending them downward to reduce surface area for the wind and snow to accumulate. Helps so the fronds don't break off under the weight.

    Trachycarpus Fortunei Taylor form has frond tips that droop like that, plant delights has them listed as a possible fortunei/waggie hybrid.

  • 16 years ago

    Trachycarpus fortunei is an EXTREMELY variable species. Some individuals simply have stiffer leaf segments than others. Where they are planted also makes a big difference; in a windy location the segments will tend to bend, and I've also heard that in shady locations the segments will be more elongated and flexible.

    I agree that in the photos posted by dbrya1, the first one is probably T. wagnerianus, not T. fortunei. T. wagnerianus has smaller leaves with much stiffer leaflets. Then again some people think T. wagnerianus is just a form of T. fortunei--they are certainly closely related and hybridize easily.

    The scoop on T. "takil" seems to be that all the seeds coming out of India in the last 20 years or so as T. takil, and thus all the palms grown from them, have turned out to be T. fortunei, albeit a desirable and hardy strain. These are now being called T. "Nainital". Seeds of true T. takil are supposedly just now coming into circulation.

  • 16 years ago

    Island breeze,my T.Fort.is actually in a place that gets hardly no wind at all,those fronds are that way naturaly,it has been that way since I bought it,this is its second year in the ground,its at the southeast corner of my home,in front of my sunroom,and across the driveway from it,is a grove of hardy bamboo,so its protected quite well from the wind.
    I've read somewhere about the Taylor form,I wonder if Plants
    Delight grow s his from seeds,same with Monrovia,in Calif.if they too grow theres from seed,or are they importing seedlings from abroad?My have to do a search to find adult taylor variety,just to see what one looks like when it reaches maturity.

    Don

  • 16 years ago

    Johnnieb,
    Are those Takil seeds just coming out,are they coming from China,from the cliffs of mountain sides?

    Don

  • 16 years ago

    there's a pic of an adult taylor form on plant delights website. check it out. Growing in a zone 7b for many years, now I think its a zone 8a though. Raleigh, NC is the location.
    And Takil is supposedly from India, the Himalayas if I remember right.

  • 16 years ago

    The "Taylor" strain of T. fortunei is not as hardy as it's cracked up to be. In fact it's proven the least hardy out of all the palms I'm growing (T. wagnerianus, T. "takil", Rhapidophyllum hystrix, Sabal minor). The Taylor has suffered damage every winter and is only one whose spear has pulled (3 winters in a row!). On the other hand it HAS survived & recovered each time.

    BTW the Taylor palms are among those that generally have flexible, drooping leaf tips. Several people have commented that this seems to be a pretty consistent characteristic for this strain (and is evident on the Plant Delights photo). I don't especially like this trait and was disappointed to learn this only after ordering & planting one from Plant Delights.

    Here's a photo of my "Taylor" T. fortunei taken in November 2006; it took quite a hit last winter and although it survived it hasn't quite recovered to this size yet. If we have another hard winter, it just might be a goner.

    Here's the same group of palms (taken from a slightly different angle) in October 2007; note how much smaller the T. fortunei is (you can barely see it in the back) whereas the T. wagnerianus on the left and T. "takil" on the right have nearly outgrown it.

  • 16 years ago

    Like you,mine has hardly grown,and this is its second winter,your leaves are nowhere as bent as mine,mine has a 2 foot trunk,but what I notice most is my leaves come from the trunk,in a erratic formation,where as yours seem to come out in a uniform formation,I also notice the stems are longer on yours.
    I beginning to think they have so many strains out,does one ever no what is what???

  • 16 years ago

    Is.breeze,
    Plants deight,has at least 2 or 3 varieties,that are listed as may or maynot be hybrids form T waggies and T fortunei.
    He list his Tennesse fortunei as a T.Fortunei,but also has a Hayes stiff T. as a cross of a fortunei and waggie.
    And he list T,Fortunie as China as origin,nut the princeps as India and the Himalayas.

  • 16 years ago

    Mine have the bent fronds but when i bought them from
    my local nursery i remember they said Trachypus Fortunei
    Interesting..

  • 16 years ago

    The leaves on my "Taylor" T. fortunei are nearly pristine in that photo because it's planted in a very sheltered location that doesn't get a lot of wind, especially in the summer when surrounding trees are leafed out. What it looks like after the winter is a different story--the leaf tips are definitely drooping, bent, and tattered.

  • 16 years ago

    Tpher any of those tornadoes been close to you or that heavy wind and rain?

    Jonhnnie,mine look the same no matter what season!
    I also noticed in some pics the trunks look to be the same diameter from the ground up,mine is like a pyramid shape,wondering will that change as it gets older?

  • 16 years ago

    I didn't realize but yes it doeslook like it could be a waggie X fortunei. Still it just proves how there are many variations and hybrids of trachycarpus species. Just makes me wonder how many trachycarpus "muts" are out there. We'll get it all organized someday. LOL!

  • 16 years ago

    Yes, plant delights does have several varieties of waggie fortunei crosses now. When I bought my taylor forms, they only had the one.
    And if they are all crosses of the two, then there is some serious variation among each parent plant, because the taylor form and the Hayes stiff form look nothing alike.
    Takil is supposed to be a different palm than Fortunei, or a somewhat distant variant.
    I have 3 taylor forms all in pots, and if given full sun, they can grow fast. One of mine was placed in full sun and has grown fast, while another placed in only morning sun didn't grow much at all.

  • 16 years ago

    Yep.I'll bet there bunches of us out there growing all kinds of varieties,wouldn't even surprise me if somehow these have
    crossed with either,European or Mediterranean windmill palms!!!

  • 16 years ago

    Don
    We have had some strong wind but no tornadoes thank
    god !
    I never realized that there are so many forms of trachys wow !
    By the time we get it all organized something else will come in and jumble it lol !

  • 16 years ago

    Full sun seemed to burn mine at the edges a little,but this was while it was still growing in a pot,it now receives morning and a little afternoon sun,and also some dappled sun coming thru the bamboo.

  • 16 years ago

    I have maybe 20 or so trachys and maybe a couple look alike, my hayes (stiffies)2 of three look similar but very much all look like a cross between wag and fort my 3 bigger fortunes 1 looks more like takil with skinnier leaves 2 of my 3 waggies look very much alike but ones leaves are a little longer all the pictures I have seen of "takil" leaves look like longer wider version of wags the leaves hanging down on ends may be genetics or could just be softer growth during warmer temps.All those (groups of)3 trachys 3"hayes,"3 fortunei,(pure)3wags were bought in groups and marked as same probably from same seed batches lots of vaiability in cross polination they are all very beautiful palms that I do know for sure,bye the way great pictures

  • 16 years ago

    I'm wondering if there is enough different varieties in the
    United States,that major vendors,don't have to send over seas for to purchase Trachycarpus seeds?
    Also I'm wondering what nurseries grow there stock from there own seeds,also I wonder even if they know for sure just what they have that they can be sure what there selling is correct,as marked on the tags!
    For instance is it even possible for sabals to cross with Trachcarpus and the same with Chamaerops Humilis?

    Jim when a new frond unfurls or opens the leaves are stiff,only when it starts to tilt on a degree or as to move into position does the bend in the leaves start to happen.
    This happens no matter what season it's in,or what temperature it is,does this seem to be the same with yours?

  • 16 years ago

    Has any botanist attempted to grow palms from tissue culture? If possible, what a boon that would be to be able to clone hardier, more desirable palm clones! I am aware that cuttings don't work with palms, except with cespitose (clustering) species, perhaps including some of the Chamaedorea species which can grow adventitious roots on their stems.

  • 16 years ago

    The only leaves I have noticed bending are the ones I bump into and bend that midrib,but when leaves are folded closed they don't bend down they bend sideways,maybe the stiffer leaved plants have some waggie blood,anyway I wonder if anyones noticed if maybe leaves that droop are from rapidly growing softer tissue.The more I see waggies the more I like their compact growth habit I also like "takil" I wonder if anyone has any good pics of princeps,manipur or martianus ? that are not from the web,like some that are a couple of feet tall.

  • 16 years ago

    Do any of you have any good pictures of (small 1 or 2 feet are even a little larger,(are what the heck, any size as long as they are not the same ones we have all seen on the web)priceps, manipur,nanus,martianus,latisectus first group or why not what ever you've got(it is winter after all) let's see your pics of takil,wagnerianus,fortunei post whataver you have!
    ?

  • 16 years ago

    I saw some large (for s.e.iowa)yuccas today that had the south facing leaves burnt by the frigid winter sun I'll betya the leaves on some petioles are laying so flat to the sun that they don't transpire fast enough at that spot soften there and droop,whatayathink ya thinkso doctor?

  • 16 years ago

    These photos are at least 3 yrs old. I'll try to take new ones later this week.
    Trachycarpus Fortunei





    Canary Island Date Palm in greenhouse.

  • 16 years ago

    Wow,those are nice size trachys,3 yrs ago,how much have they grown since???

  • 16 years ago

    Those are only 3 yrs old ?
    Wow !

  • 16 years ago

    Hey cactus freak if you do post some new pictures how about posting them on (any good pictures princeps, manipur) thread. Great pictures,thanks!

  • 16 years ago

    oh sorry disregard my post.. duh..

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