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lisar1

I'm designing a compact kitchen and seeking advice

2 years ago

Hi. I'm designing a compact kitchen and having trouble trying to place the cabinets. I hope someone here can give me some advice.


The floor plan is attached, and I created the design in the tool below


IKEA Design Tool


I realize these cabinets placements will probably not work because many are on walls without anything below them.


Please note that the wall where the base cabinets are attached is a "pony wall" (90" from the opposite wall with the range). Above the "pony wall" is a furdown wall which I plan to remove (provided that I can find a place for the cabinets). The furr down currently separates the kitchen from the dining room, and I want to open that up.


I also am considering extending the countertop 15" into the dining room and place 30" tall wall cabinets under the countertop for more storage.







Comments (241)

  • 2 years ago

    I forgot to ask about getting a measurement of the W/D hookups, but I did see that they are very close to the left side of the closet (where the refrigerator will go). The damage was caused by a neighbor's kitchen fire that spread, and pretty much everything has to be replaced. I did get a few pictures, but my friend didn't really understand what was needed so they are not helpful.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/?projectId=F5AA6BCA-BB6A-40C5-9708-DCC1ADC5CC2E&ref=share

    This is the long-term design I would do. Post must be removed, or there is not enough hall space to LR/DR! Cabinets are shortened to allow more space. Get the thinnest refrigerator door possible, since that will extend into the now 36” hallway. The hookups can be extended without too much expense. Where is the dryer vent? Build out the closet wall stub to the depth of whatever refrigerator you choose. I used 29”. Move panel there. Remove stub on the right side of closet. Get stacked W/D, pushed to the back of fridge. No wall. If vent fits at the exact height as the sacked dryer, then you save installation space. If attractive fronts, then you don’t need the door. Add 15” high cabinet to be used however you like. Coat closet? Clothes rod for drying shirts, more storage. WH to bedroom. (Yay!)

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/?projectId=9EDC91C8-AC84-4C93-931E-396A2F7882EF&ref=share

    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/?projectId=9EDC91C8-AC84-4C93-931E-396A2F7882EF&ref=share

    If the post is load-bearing, then the refrigerator must go in the kitchen. Since my priorities are more prep space, landing space and cabinet space, I would want a 24” fridge. Again, your priorities are what matter. I have given you two choices for fridge position. Fridge against the wall is very tight. You may need to reduce the 15” cabinet to a 12” pull-out.

    These options would be less expensive than moving the panel and fridge and not as good for the way I live, but it might be what you have to choose. We all make compromises.

    I am so sorry for your horrible loss. This reconstruction needs to happen soonest! And with a better layout!

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    That design looks great! With a 30" wide refrigerator, I'd have less than 1/2" on each side. Would that be enough space? As I recall, the dryer vent is on the right side of the closet, but I'm not sure of the height It seems like I'd be about 6" short of being able to use a full size W/D. Maybe it's not worth thinking about that, but I keep wondering if that's possible.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago



    You could surely do a neater job than I can, but send this plan to your electrician to see what estimate he can give you without going to the apartment. Have him estimate with and without moving the panel. Have him give a range, low end is not having to extend any wires, high end is extending all of them. Then you would know the worst.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    If you use a countertop depth fridge, then it would be 55” for top loading W/D + 24 fridge = 79”. If you shorten your kitchen cabinet runs by 6”, you could use them. Look at the exact width of fridge you buy. 29 ¾”W gives ½” on each side, plus ventilation under the top cabinet. If long-term you would like the stacked W/D, you could temporarily put the fridge next to the stove, while you accumulate funds for them. You might want a cabinet-depth 30” fridge anyway. It would give you a larger cabinet next to the Stacked W/D.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    Great diagram! I couldn't do better--trust me on that. Haha..


    In the latest IKEA design with fridge in closet, the clearance to the cabinets is 31". Can that be reduced? It seems like a side-by-side door wouldn't need that much room to open.

  • 2 years ago

    Let’s be sure I’m working with the correct measurements. Existing is 75” closet, 31” hall, 5” wall, 93 1/2” kitchen = 204 1/2”. In my plan 1” space-24 DW-2” filler-30” sink base-36” drawers = 93” + 75” = 168” - 204” = 36” for hall. Of course you will have the fridge door protruding into that space. Yes, a side-by side (storage is awkward, imho) or French door fridge will have a shorter door swing. That fridge is just a place holder.

    Has the IKEA planner changed overnight? I can’t seem to get the distances from walls to appear. Grrrr….

    You should really try to have a clear 36” from the fridge door (or from handles, if you get them). The DW will likely need no clearance from the side, and your sink can snuggle up closer to it (cutting into the left side of the cabinet for the bowl), saving probably 2”. If you get a new 24”sink, that would give you even more flexibility. 24”DW, 24” sink, 18” drawers, 24” drawers = 90” I like that better. And you?

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    Our electrician was here to install a new induction range. YAY! He said about moving your panel that every situation is different, of course, but it shouldn’t be difficult. If the wires need to be lengthened, a junction box can be used on the inside of the fridge wall (not covered by cabinet). A few hours of labor. I would do that in a flash!

    I love my stacked 24”W Miele W/D. We had Bosch before that in Germany and brought them with us, so we are used to the small size. If you want to keep your side-by-side W/D, which I can understand, then just add 4” (2 studs and sheetrock) to the ends of the refrigerator walls to make a total of 79”. You would have to use a countertop-depth fridge and have no wall separating it from W/D. The kitchen cabinet run would then be 24” DW, 24” sink, 15” DR, 24” DR, leaving 38” for hall and fridge door. The other side would be 2” filler, 24”DR, 30” range, 30” drawers. Dining room side 2” filler, 24” pantry, 30” base, 30”base. I like it.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Congrats on your new range, and thank you for asking your electrician about my electric box!

    Those measurements look right. Is the reason you have the 36" SB because of my current sink? I'm willing to replace that if it improves the layout. The stackable w/d seems like a worthwhile compromise--and I may be able to keep my dryer, so I decided to go with that.


    Is the reason for recommending 36" so that when the fridge is open someone else can squeeze by? A side by side seems to only require about 18" for the door and a right-hinged up/down refrigerator would seem to require less than 30" to clear the cabinets. I realize that 18" would be too tight, but just wondering if 36" would be using space that could be better used elsewhere.

  • 2 years ago

    The International Residential Code specifies that the minimum width of a hallway is to be 36”, which is why I couldn’t believe yours is 31”. That would be measured from the handles of the fridge to the cabinet across (so don’t have handles!). Choose which fridge you like to use. Since it is not open a long time, someone can wait a moment.

    Part of this design is to give a sense of spaciousness, even in a small space. Don’t make it feel tight and uncomfortable with a very narrow hallway. You can decide what you want more, W/D side-by-side or six more inches of cabinet. Either is a reasonable choice. I feel that you will have good working spaces and efficient storage, even without those 6”. And it will feel open and welcoming. That is important, if you are going to sell or rent. You are used to the tight hallway, but a buyer seeing it for the first time will just think how cramped it feels. You can make your condo really stand out among all the others in the building, without losing anything. Look at the pictures of the tight kitchen/dining in your original post. Compare that to what is now planned.

    Yes, ”they” will say you need a 36” cabinet., which is fine in a large kitchen. What you actually need is the width of the bowl(s). I have cut down the sides of the sink cabinet in several houses with no problems. I take only as much as is needed to fit the bowl, leaving as much of the frame as possible. If you want to use the 33” sink you have, then you probably really only need 31”. Use a 30” cabinet, cut into the sides of the frame so that the bowls just fit. Either put a 1/2” filler on each side, or put the filler all on the dishwasher side. Measure your sink to find out the exact measurement. Or get a 24” sink and cabinet for more drawer space. Look for the largest interior measure of the sink bowl, since they can vary.


    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    I just realized that I didn’t read your last comment carefully. Sorry. Opting for the Stacked W/D makes things easier. I couldn’t find a counter depth fridge at 29 1/2” W. 30”W fridges used to be standard, but now 33” and 36” seem to be the standard. I did find Best Buy’s house brand Insignia, though, 29.5”W x 31”D x 66”H, for only $670. It has very good reviews for a basic fridge. I would get the 5-year warranty.


    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    Since fridge sizes vary so much and cannot be counted on to be standard, I would really consider putting the electrical on the living room side. Then one could remove the corner of the closet and even have up to a 36" fridge there some day, if necessary. Right now, the Insignia fridge seems to be best. The only thing to do is cut the hole for the fridge and finish the edge. And probably extend the washer hookup. You can re-use the closet doors and do nothing more. Spray paint the panel cover to blend in with the walls, hang a picture or put a plant in front of it.


    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    Thanks for looking at the refrigerators. I had expected they would be more standardized.


    "I would really consider putting the electrical on the living room side."

    It the only reason for this to accommodate a wider refrigerator?


    "The only thing to do is cut the hole for the fridge and finish the edge."

    This goes along with moving the panel to the living room, right?









  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Me, too! I also have to consider what size refrigerator will be available for us, when ours needs replacing, so I was thinking into the future for you, too. Putting the panel on the living room wall retains flexibility for the future replacement. It also means that you don’t have to do anything to the closet stub walls. You only have to have the hole cut for the fridge, finish the sheetrock edges, and you are done.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    That sounds like a lot less work than re-building the closet. I like it! BTW, I found out that the dryer vent is on the bottom of the right wall of the closet. So, do you think it would make sense to swap the location of the washer/dryer with the tall cabinet?

  • 2 years ago

    For sure! I would put the W/D whereever there are the fewest things to move, like hookups, 240v outlet, dryer vent. Please take pictures of the inside of the closet, when you get a chance. I have a used base cabinet (fitted with pull-out drawers) and a used upper cabinet with a clothes rod between them for hanging up right out of the W/D. My space is tiny, but it functions well. I fold clothes in the bedroom.

    You will want to buy the 29.5“W refrigerator soon, so contractor/electrician know what is to be installed. Maybe there is a used one of that size. Might be worth a look.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    You really have me thinking on how to maximize space! Four weeks ago, I wouldn't have imagined that I had so much space available. I love the idea of clothes line in the laundry room. Maybe I'll substitute the pantry for a base/wall.

    One thing I'm still not sure about is the cabinet over the refrigerator. I would need to either mount that from the ceiling or side walls. I need to check into how difficult that will be.

    I know I need to get some pictures. I just haven't been to the apartment in a while.


    Everything else looks pretty clear, although I'm thinking about using a 24" depth pantry in the dining room instead of the 15". Do you see any problems in doing that?

  • 2 years ago

    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/?projectId=F5AA6BCA-BB6A-40C5-9708-DCC1ADC5CC2E&ref=share


    Glad you are seeing that, now! I like to get every bit of storage as compact and efficient as possible, leaving the important parts of a room or apartment spacious. For that reason, I would not use a 24” D pantry in the dining room. I added a table and chairs. You can see that if the cabinet were 24” D, you would not have enough space to comfortably sit and move around the table. What you have is the minimum space required. Unless you put in the drawers, 24” is difficult to access. More expensive, too.

    I have a rod for hangers under my upper cabinet in my laundry area, not a clothes line. The cabinet above the fridge is screwed into the sides of the walls, using the appropriate fillers. Not hard at all.

    I think you are far enough along to make a detailed list for electrician, plumber and contractor to bid. You need to know what this will cost and how long it will take. Last fiddling of cabinets can be later. What is being done in the bathrooms and bedrooms? Do you have that figured out? Have you figured out how you are going to finance this?

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I see what you mean about the pantry. This still may not create enough room, but It seems like I could gain five inches if I were to remove the wall and screw the back of a pantry to the backs of the kitchen cabinets and also to the side wall (if the cabinets are sturdy enough to do that). I was planning on extending the dining room counter top 10 inches over the edge of the cabinets, and I now realize that this would encroach on the dining space. Without doing that though, I'm not sure how practical of a breakfast bar it would be.

    The bathrooms are another dilemma for me. I have bathtubs in both, and the tile must be removed in one of them. So, I'm trying to decide whether to use a plastic tub surround, or to just replace the geen boards and re-tile. I was able to get a super clearance price on some ceramic subway tiles, so I think the cost would be about the same either way. The other bathroom has a chip in the tub, so I'm considering replacing it with a walk in shower. Or, I may just repair the chip and keep the tub. Either way, I have to replace the 43 year old valves/fixtures, so I'll need to decide whether to re-tile or just replace the handful of broken tiles and those needed to be taken out to replace the valve.

    I have enough flooring to keep the same wood pattern throughout the entire apartment or use the travertine pattern in the bathrooms.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Now you’re thinking like I do! 😳😁 (and my contractor rolls his eyes)) I thought of that, but you have pipes and wires running through that pony wall. You could have the full wall extend to where the pipe comes out and then remove the rest of the pony wall. The wall in my first kitchen ended halfway across the sink, and it did not bother me. Covers up more of the mess, too. (I wish I were perfectly neat and clean.) That would leave space for a wider 15”D pantry, doing without the others. Then you have a breakfast bar for two.

    I would choose the breakfast bar, since you can always add those cabinets, if you find you really need the storage and you don’t mind using the table all the time. And I might extend the pantry, anyway. The choices are total 30”W, 33”W, 36”W, 39”W, 42”W, and 48”W, using a combination of high cabinets. You could also have shelves or another cabinet on the kitchen side. Decide once you know where the pipe comes out. Yes remove the sheetrock behind the cabinets on both sides to gain an inch, keeping it for the breakfast bar. I don’t see a real advantage of removing the pony wall. You could run the pipes and wiring through the pantry, but that might be more trouble than it is worth. You are getting so much better storage than you had before!

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    I would use the same flooring throughout. Save every bit of left-over flooring, in case you need more later.


    It is important to have a long-term plan for everything you want to do. I am concerned for your budget, since the kitchen budget was unrealistic, so let‘s plan first to get you into the condo and stop paying rent. That rent money can be saved for the next campaign.


    Draw the bathroom elements where they are now, then it is easier to comment. I know you are not there, so just just the basic location for now. What would you like in the long-run? One shower, one tub? Plan it.


    For now, I would say do just enough to move in. The kitchen is your first priority, since nothing is there. A plastic glue-on tub surround can be had for around $100, and labor to install is not a lot. To tile, you need a proper backing—not greenboard, waterproofing, and the not insignificant labor of tile installation. Live with the chip in the other tub, or get a tiny bottle of enamel repair and dab it on yourself. Don’t refinish. For the tub that will stay, replace the valve. If there is an interior wall on the back of the valve, the sheet rock can be cut and repaired, saving the tile. If the valve on the future shower still works, I would wait until you can re-do that bathroom, since the valve placement will be different.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    “ Now you’re thinking like I do! 😳😁 (and my contractor rolls his eyes)) “

    Hahaha. I take that as a compliment 😊 . I’m still amazed by how much you know and are able to apply to all of these scenarios.

    “You could have the full wall extend to where the pipe comes out and then remove the rest of the pony wall”

    If I did that wouldn’t the dining room cabinets, located where the pony wall was removed, be recessed 4” compared to the panty next to it? The water/drain pipes probably run directly under the floor to the apartment below because we have shared water, although it’s possible that the hot water runs to the side wall. Unfortunately, nobody has a blueprint of the plumbing.

    “Yes remove the sheetrock behind the cabinets on both sides to gain an inch, keeping it for the breakfast bar”

    If I install cabinets below the breakfast bar, do I still need to keep sheetrock there? Either way, it seems like I’ll need at least a little bit of overhang on the counter tops to make the breakfast bar will be functional.

    “ The wall in my first kitchen ended halfway across the sink, and it did not bother me. Covers up more of the mess, too. (I wish I were perfectly neat and clean.) That would leave space for a wider 15”D pantry, doing without the others.”

    If I extend the wall, it seems that I wouldn’t be able to remove any sheetrock from the kitchen side, if I am imaging this correctly.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Indeed a compliment! I have always lived in small apartments and houses (not tiny houses, though), and renovating to get the best flow, function and storage has been my obsession. I hope you don’t mind that I am obsessed by your space. I feel your insecurity and lack of experience, so I am equally obsessed about helping you get what you want for the least amount of money in this horrible situation. I want to help you avoid mistakes. I have certainly made my share of them.

    To me the choice is a breakfast bar OR cabinets, not both. Having both would take too much space from the dining room. Next time you are there, you need to find out where those pipes are by removing the sheetrock around the kitchen drain pipe. The worst case would be if it runs through that corner wall of the kitchen that we want to remove entirely. But I would think it runs through the wall by the dishwasher.

    You are right about sheetrock on the kitchen side. It needs to stay. That thought was when there was a fridge and pantry on that full wall. Thanks for catching that. Keep the wall and the sheetrock on both sides. One of my less than stellar ideas.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I was able to get my friend to take a picture of the kitchen and measured the distance from the plumbing. The drain is 31" from the wall on the left, and we're almost certain the plumbing runs directly down to the floor and not to the side walls. All of the cold water and drain lines in this building is shared between 1st floor and 2nd. The only slight uncertainly is the hot water line, but we're pretty sure that also runs directly down to the floor and then to the water heater. That being the case, it seems that removing the sheetrock on the pony wall would be okay. Removing the entire wall to the left side of the drain pipe seems okay too, but it doesn't seem beneficial except that it would alleviate the need for "filling in" the pony/furr down. .

    It seems to me that removing the wall and attaching the cabinets back-to-back would present some challenges especially the wall cabinet on the kitchen side, which would only have the support of the living room wall cabinet.



  • 2 years ago

    Thanks for the photo. It does help to see what is there. Forget about removing sheetrock, since my original idea was for a different situation. You need the wall to hang the cabinet, and you wouldn’t gain enough to make a difference. I think the run of the pipes won't cause any issue, unless they do happen to go through the corner wall to the right of the sink.

    I would probably stay with the 24"W pantry, since that width gives good storage space, and it is cheaper to have one cabinet instead of two smaller ones.

    I wish you restful, happy holidays! May the new year hold good things for you!

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • 2 years ago

    Thank you. I wish you very happy holidays too! Same to all of the readers of this forum.

  • last year

    It's been over a year since I last posted-yikes!--and I wanted to give an update.


    On the plus side, I made a lot of progress in removing walls in the kitchen and working on other areas of this apartment. On the negative side, I STILL haven't installed the kitchen cabinets, mostly due to my limited budget.


    Since I've been running short on funds, I bought some frameless cabinets (similar to the look of IKEA cabinets that I was able to get on clearance (20 floor cabinets and 12 wall cabinets). They look good, but unfortunately--and I know this is a big disadvantage, the cabinets are all 30" wide. In other words, I have 20 30" floor cabinets and 12-30"x 30" wall cabinets, which I have in storage awaiting install.


    Again, I know my cabinet selection is not ideal and I'm going to be wasting space, but I'm trying to make the best of what I'm working with and would be would be grateful for anyone who i still willing to offer their advice.


    My initial thought is to build an island in the middle of the kitchen using some of the floor cabinets, and to maximize space, install all of my 30" wall cabinets to the ceiling and put a row of shelves below them. I also have enough cabinets and space to build a pantry with 2 or 3 of the floor cabinets and/or a pantry on the left side of the laundry closet.


    Once again, thanks in advance for your help.







  • last year

    I haven't read all the blow by blow from last year, but it's clear this has been quite a journey!

    can you post a better drawing, just sketch out roughly the idea you are describing in words and add some more measurements?

    Lisa thanked rebasheba
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Thank you. I've uploaded a screenshot of my very rough plan in the IKEA designer. The measurements may be slightly off.


    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/BE15B90E-4877-4AB7-82CF-D25C7F5F4843/



  • last year

    Hi, Lisa! I’m glad that you have made progress on the rest of the apartment. Renovation is slow, when you can’t afford to have it done all at once, I know. Did you move the water heater to the master bedroom? Are the kitchen walls gone? Where is the plumbing? Please post pictures of all the rooms you have done and also of the cabinets you bought.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    Susan!! Thank you for continuing to help after all this time.


    Yes, all of the kitchen walls are gone. My contractor made a video of the present condition. It's not very good quality, but I'm posting a link to it here



    The plumber is waiting for my decision on where to place the sink lines before moving the water heater lines because he has to turn off the water for the entire building to move plumbing, and he only wants to do that once.

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Susan, I like your galley kitchen design. Do you think the wall cabinets on top of the refrigerator and abutting the pantry would be stable without support walls behind them?

  • last year

    So, it’s important to nail down a plan for the plumber. No contractor would say it’s a great idea, but you are hanging them from the ceiling and the wall. Same for the cabinet over the fridge. Put a sheet of ¾“ plywood between the cabinets. Or you could put 2x4s turned sideways for 1 ½“ support. The plumber and electrician would probably have to run the pipes/wires through the cabinets or maybe the toekick. What did your electrician say about turning the panel?
    I think the galley plan is far superior to the island plan for function, flexibility (since you will be doing this for rental/resale), and storage.
    Please send the video link.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    The link is below


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYVZCeEgFM


    As you can probably see, the plumber already moved the drain line to the back wall, but he can easily move it back if we go with the galley style.


    If there's enough space, I could use floor cabinets for the pantry instead of wall cabinets, which would seem to offer more support.


    I haven't been able to get a good estimate on moving the box yet. It seems dependent on how many of the existing wires would have to be extended

  • last year

    Lisa, I can imagine that you are overwhelmed by all this. It is so important to take the time to have an overall plan that reflects your budget and goals. Then you will make fewer mistakes. I think budget seems to be your highest priority. Then it is important to spend your money wisely. Don’t buy, just because something is cheap. Everything you put in must reflect your end goal, which seems to be for resale or rental. Cheap stuff and work will lower the sales price/rent by much more than you save on the cheapest stuff.
    Since the budget is so tight and you have had the plumber and the electrician already move things for your island plan, I think it will be best to go with that. Then you don’t need to move the panel or the washer hook-up. I have made a few tweeks to the plan I sent you. Link below. PLEASE send me a picture of your cabinets, especially the base cabinets. Do they have a drawer and two doors? How tall is the door? Does it have an attached toekick, or is it just a box? The cabinet in the corner will have to be modified to become a blind-corner cabinet with one door. A base cabinet can have the drawer cut off to be mounted over the refrigerator. Or to use a wall cabinet there, you have to have a refrigerator that is 65“ or less tall. I would use the cut-off base cabinet. I put in shelves and a rod under the microwave for hanging cooking tools. Doors from a base cabinet can be used on a cut-down wall cabinet to fit over the MW.
    Important to keep at least 36“ between the electrical panel wall and the island and at least 36“ between the fridge handles and oven handles and that island. No seating. Those clearances are tight, but doable. Get a narrow table.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Thank you, Susan. That looks good. One thing I want to point out is that although the plumber moved the drain line to the wall, he has not moved the cold/hot water lines. So it would be just as easy (easier?) to move the drain line back to the original place to accommodate your galley design than it would be to move the cold/hot water lines to the wall. To me, the galley design seems slightly more desirable because it leaves room for the pantry.


    When I visited the unit yesterday, I remeasured and found that the dining area is actually about 20" deeper than the last measurements showed. I've updated the your design to reflect that:

    https://kitchen.planner.ikea.com/us/en/planner/E5442831-56DA-428A-8F6A-D38FE86B07C9/


    I'm trying to envision how the blind corner cabinet would work. Your design has a 14" BC next to the stove. Would I have to cut my 30" cabinet to make it 14"?

  • last year

    Adding pantry next to fridge would make the dining area very cramped. If you have the money, you could have the cabinets cut to 6-9” depth, put a back on it and put the back to the fridge. That could work, but costs labor and materials.
    I prefer the galley plan, too, but some sort of wall will need to be re-built. Too bad you didn’t just take off the sheetrock and then plan. And the panel and washer connection would have to be move, all adding to cost.
    I would fit out your closet with a well-designed laundry/pantry.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Thank you, Susan,

    "If you have the money, you could have the cabinets cut to 6-9” depth."

    Would the purpose of cutting it be to save space or make it easier to reach items? With the extra 20" in the dining room, it seems like space is less of an issue.

    " I prefer the galley plan, too, but some sort of wall will need to be re-built. "

    If the only wall required is the partial in front of the pantry, I think that would not be expensive. Moving the electrical panel is the only thing that might be/

    In your last diagram, it looks like the corner cabinet is 14". Did you intend it to be that way?

  • last year

    Hi, Lisa,
    I am trying to help you get the best kitchen for your priorities. Would you please state them for me again?

    Adding the wall and moving plumbing and electrical may not be „expensive“, but if you don’t have the money for it, then it is too expensive, especially when there is another good plan to give you what you want and need.

    I need photos and measurements of your cabinets and the door height, then I can tell you what can be done. The 14“ is the dead space left over from the base cabinet to the left of the sink. I need the measurements confirmed: 225“ back wall of room. How much space from corner of kitchen to door frame to bedroom. I have it as 93“.

    Make sure you keep adequate clearances. 36“ between handles and countertop (not cabinet) is an uncomfortable minimum. More would be better, but this is a small kitchen, so one can live with minimum, but nor less! Same with the table. The plan shows a narrow 31“w IKEA table, good for your tight space. Measure your own table. It is likely 36-42“. You should allow 36“ all around the table to be able to pull out chairs comfortably. In my small eat-in kitchen, I have 24“ on two sides, which is a grand pain, but doable. You also don’t want the chairs to be in the way of the door to the bedroom. Pantry can be added later, after you get a table and chairs in there. This plan gives you more space in your W/D closet for storage.

    You need numbers from electrician, plumber, contractor, even if ballpark. Show them both plans and ask for a rough estimate to accomplish it.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    Thank you again, Susan


    Priorities are: 1) maximization of storage space; 2) functionality ; 3) preservation of resale value.


    "I need photos and measurements of your cabinets and the door height"

    These are in the contractor's storage unit. I've asked him to take photos a few times, but he hasn't done it yet. I'll keep asking.


    " I need the measurements confirmed: 225“ back wall of room.

    Yes. I measured it as 225", but will measure it again to triple check next time I'm at the unit.


    "How much space from corner of kitchen to door frame to bedroom. I have it as 93“

    I measured this as 101"


    "You need numbers from electrician, plumber, contractor, even if ballpark "

    I'm working on getting these


    What do you think about a modification to your galley plan placing the refrigerator next to the stove or dishwasher (and moving sink to the right of DW)? I know this reduces some functionality, and I'm trying to visualize how much loss there would be.

  • last year

    Does budget come after these three priorities? I thought it was the most important to you. Are you doing this for resale? If so, consult with a realtor or two and have them estimate what you would get selling it now, as-is, versus a not-so-good redone condo. If you don’t do this job well, you will lose. Find out, don’t assume.

  • last year

    Budget is a top priority--I should have listed it in the last message. I need a place to live, so I'm planning to move back in as soon as it's finished. Resale will be later at some point. I did talk with a Realtor a few months ago. Selling "as is" is not really an option at this point because I would have to sell at very steep discount.

  • last year

    So adding „need to move in as soon as possible“ to the major priorities, too. That’s quite a juggle. Will it just be you and maybe a partner, or are there kids, too? When we bought our current house, we had just moved back from Germany and were staying with friends. We immediately gutted the LV ourselves to make a spot for all the furniture and boxes, which arrived a week later. We moved in, when we had a functioning bedroom, bath, laundry and kitchen, all unrenovated. Before we did ANYTHING permanent, we planned in great detail. It was not ideal, but it meant we didn’t have to move our stuff yet again, just shift boxes and furniture as necessary.
    If you want to save on your current rent money, you could do the same. Then that money can go towards the renovation. We lived with the subfloors, old paint, old cabinets, etc. AND WE DID THE JOB RIGHT. There are a few places where I regret skimping on quality, but I think we mostly got the right balance of quality/price.
    I feel you have done some unwise spending, sorry to say, especially given your goals of resale, storage, functionality. Why did you buy 20 base cabinets, when you can only use 3-4? What did you pay? Are these the same quality of those you nearly bought last fall? If so, then resale value goes way down, because they are old, and any new buyer will want new cabinets. That’s one reason I need to see what they look like and how they are built.
    You say you want good storage and therefore a pantry. I reused what cabinets I could, but I fitted each with a total of four drawers. You have one drawer and 1 ½ awkward shelves (bottom and the half-shelf) in the same volume. I have a third more storage than you, all of it very convenient and accessible. And I added two IKEA drawer bases. Now, if we had been doing this for resale, we would have bought all new IKEA cabinets, as you should do, imo.

    If you are willing to live there while renovating, you will surely save a lot of money, and it takes a lot of pressure off you, which is also important. Naturally, it’s not ideal, but nothing is. Have you considered putting a pantry next to the water heater in the bedroom?

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    So, if this were my place and I were in your situation (but I don’t have enough info), I would decide on the island kitchen layout. Plan a future IKEA kitchen, but use the base cabinets you have for now. Look for appliances, preferably new, on the resale market, like Facebook Marketplace (I bought everything for our cabin renovation there). ReStore sometimes has LIGHTLY used appliances. Your final goal is resale. Do not buy cheap or old stuff!

    With a plan, the plumber and electrician can proceed. Get a piece of plywood or an old cheap countertop from ReStore as a temporary working surface. Install the sink into that. Most of your things should stay packed in boxes. Get one bedroom and bath livable. Install W/D. Take a deep breath and move in. This is an investment for your future.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    I understand that everyone‘s situation is different, so this is just one possible plan.

    Lisa thanked susan P
  • last year

    Those are good ideas and I appreciate them all. In my case, I'm going to have to complete the kitchen before I move in. Main reason is that the contractor who is storing the cabinets has to move them into my apartment bedroom in the next few days because of a storage issue.


    I'll spare you all of the details, but I've had a lot of problems with contractors so far. One took a deposit from me and never showed up for the job. Another started tile work for a day and didn't return. I'm finding these people through Nextdoor, Yelp, etc.., and it's been a challenge to say the least. Now, their prices are much higher than they were when I started, and I still don't have high expectations that any are going to to the job right.


    The design with the island seems okay to me. My only real hesitation with it is the dead space in the corner, but maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of that than it really is.


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  • last year

    I really feel for you, so please read my rather too firm suggestions as trying to give you a thread to hold on to through all of this. It is so difficult to find good, reliable and honest contractors. Can you ask among friends and acquaintances for recommendations? Can this contractor recommend a tile setter? I also have lots of stories about workers who stiffed me, did a bad job, wouldn’t show up. It’s painful and expensive. I’m grateful to now have good ones.
    I can’t really make a final plan, without seeing the cabinets, since at least the corner cabinet will have to be altered. I hate corners, which is one reason I much prefer galley kitchens. I once did the calculations (in my math days) comparing the usable space of a lazy susan with a dead corner and a bank of drawers, and the drawer base wins. And you wouldn’t even have a lazy susan, just a black hole that you can’t reach from your 15“ opening. There are some pullouts that are quite good, but they are very expensive, not appropriate here. I usually try to use the dead space from the other side, but the bathroom prevents that, and it would be too expensive in this situation. Anyway, I need a picture and door measurements of the cabinet.

    Lisa thanked susan P