Thank you, Alex! I'm using the 'bog standard' brand Heinz and it is 5% acidity. I noticed dishes are not quite as dry, but they never were completely dry anyway, so it's not an issue. The vinegar is much cheaper, too!

I have a new bosch and have been noticing some stickiness from the rinseaid.

Did you just fill the rinseaid dispenser with straight vinegar?

@debrak_2008 - Yes, that is what I've been doing. My Bosch DW is programmable to the amount of rinse-aid to dispense. Check and see if yours does that, too.

Yes mine is programmable. Right now I have turbo finish rinse aid in it set at 1.

When this bottle runs out I'm going to try the vinegar. Thanks for the tip!

@debrak_2008 - If you're using the "Turbo" strength, then your water must be really hard. Are you also utilizing the built-in water softener? That might help.

I switched to white vinegar from rinse aid. Within a few months, the acid from the vinegar had eroded the rubber seal on the rinse aid cap. One $25 cap later, I decided to switch back to commercial rinse aid and have had no further issues.

I remember reading this post at the time that confirmed that someone else had the same experience with vinegar.

This post was edited by sas95 on Fri, May 24, 13 at 10:26

What is the built in water softener? I have a 500 model so I might not have that feature.

I bought turbo because I thought is would be better now realize it is over kill. I turned the setting down to 1 and so far its working pretty well.

@sas95 - Thank you for the link. This is exactly why I was wondering if the white vinegar was a good idea or not, for our Bosch.

Perhaps I'll call Bosch next week and inquire about the white vinegar. Alex said Miele approves it, but Bosch may use different components in the dispenser.

This post was edited by Cavimum on Sat, May 25, 13 at 9:01

Another solution, if you are worried about the vinegar, is to cut the Jet Dry with water. Make it 50%. That should solve the residue issues.

Vinegar is acetic acid. Jet Dry is a kind of soap, a surfactant. It lowers or eliminates water tension so that drops dont form and water sheets off surfaces.

Rinse aid typically is slightly acidic. The MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheet) for Cascade Crystal Clear Rinse Aid as an example indicates:
Ethanol - 3% to 7%
Citric Acid - 1% to 5%
Zinc Chloride - 0.5% to 1.5%
Water - >50%
pH 1% solution - 3.3

I added water to the rinse aid dispenser and I still have residue. On the bosch website they only recommend finish rinse aid. I will need to call bosch to ask about vinegar. I'm afraid to try it without their OK.

I have to wonder if Bosch's strong recommendations (and coupons with new DW) indicate a paid product placement. I wish the person with the blog, where the vinegar ruined her DW's dispenser cap, had posted which brand she owns. I don't have time to scroll back through someone's blog to find the info.

I have read that blog but don't remember the brand.

I can pretty much tell you that manufacturers do not test their rinse aid dispensers with anything other than the different brands of rinse aid.

Manufacturers try to stay away from "home remedies" as there is no consistency to test to.
What if Grape soda becomes the next internet home remedy cleaning sensation???
Are manufacurers supposed to drop all their other testing and start testing different brands of grape soda?

All manufacturers test to the 90-95% of the typical customer useage. They don't worry about the remaining 5-10 % That's why they stick to their recommendations, as they are what the product is tested to.

We have used Heinz white vinegar 5% in our Rinse Aid dispenser of our Bosch 800 series (non-plus, wish now I had bought plus) dishwasher for over three years and never had a problem.

Each dishwasher brand designs their rinse aid compartment differently. In our bosh the rinse aid fill hole is under the detergent cover. When you open the door and it is horizontal you open the detergent cover and pour the vinegar into the rinse aid hole until it is full. There is no rubber seal or cover to erode away. When the door is close and in the vertical position the vinegar is at the bottom of the rinse aid compartment and the fill hole is at the top so no vinegar sitting around a seal.

My mothers Asko has a little plastic cover you have to remove to expose the rinse aid fill hole. This has a rubber seal around cover/cap. I could see where more acidic solutions could destroy the seal. It immediately seemed like a bad design to me, but it has caused her no problems. She has also used Heinz vinegar 5% for years with no problems.

We both buy our vinegar at Costco by the Gallon for just a few bucks each. Rinse aid is a royal rip off.

(non-plus, wish now I had bought plus)

I'm more interested in this - why do you wish you had bought "plus". I have the 800 not plus and am very happy with it. I can't find anything about the plus that would make me spend additional $$ on it.

Wanted the third rack for silverware.

I have a third rack, and I don't have the "+"
.

Depends on when you purchased. We purchased ours in 2010 and at that time the third rack was only included on the plus models. Wife said no, too much money, third rack a gimmick. Ohh well. Eventually......

There should be (most likely) a piece of rubber inside the dispenser that keeps the outlet hole closed. Much like the stopper in your sink, it opens, lets some rinse aid drain into the dishwasher, and closes again.

Alex

Interesting post.
I might add some vinegar
Years back The Appliance Doctor recommended using Tang to clean your DW

This post was edited by a2gemini on Sun, Feb 2, 14 at 19:24

One of my concerns is ingesting small amounts of residue (chemicals) left behind by the rinse agent. I'm looking to buy a new dishwasher & had my heart set on a Miele, however they absolutely say not to use vinegar. I'm waiting to get a MSDS sheet on their rinse agent. I am tired of dishwashers that I have to "wash the dishes" before I load the dishwasher therefore have been just doing dishes by hand lately. Can anyone recommend a dishwasher that works well, cleans well, you don't have to wash the dishes before loading, and that you can use vinegar as a rinse agent? TIA.

You don't have to use a rinse agent. The dishes just won't be dry when you remove them from the dishwasher. You would need to hand dry the dishes once you are done. That may be a reasonable compromise in your situation. Most if not all modern dishwashers require rinse aid.

If I have to clean them before loading and then dry them, I might as well do them by hand...!

With a good dishwasher you don't need to clean your dishes before loading them.

Just scrape the dishes off, load them, and select the Auto cycle. Most of the better d/w's have sensors that when the auto cycle is used will adjust the cycle according to the soil amount it reads in the water. If you don't use Rinse Aid some dishwashers will compensate with a higher final rinse temperature to reduce spotting. (not eliminate).

There's no need to "wash the dishes" before loading with any modern-day dishwasher. Scrape off the heavy food residue, load and go. Dishwashers nowadays work *better* with some soil (sauces, crumbs, bits of rice or pasta) remaining so the sensors with which many are equipped can adjust the cycle time for proper water heating and wash time. No soils for the sensors results in shortening of the wash time and reduced water heating, which causes poorer performance with the non-phosphate detergents on the market.

Out of curiosity I decided to look up the MSDS for Finish rinse aid. I thought I remembered it to be pretty benign especially since such little amounts are used in the final rinse water. Just a few cc's in a couple gallons of water that is used to break the surface tension of the water.

MSDS

Component analysis - Oral LD50
Ingredient(s)

Alcohols, C12-15, ethoxylated propoxylated
LD50
1200 mg/kg rat

Citric acid 5040 mg/kg mouse; 3000 mg/kg rat

Sodium cumenesulfonate 7000 mg/kg rat

Effects of acute exposure

Eye - None expected during normal conditions of use.
May cause eye irritation upon direct contact with the eyes.

Skin - None expected during normal conditions of use.
Not expected to be a skin sensitizer.

Inhalation - None expected during normal conditions of use.

Ingestion - Health injuries are not known or expected under normal use.

Sensitisation - The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects.
Chronic effects - The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects. Carcinogenicity - The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects. Mutagenicity-The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects. Reproductive effects - The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects. Teratogenicity - The finished product is not expected to have chronic health effects.
Synergistic - Materials Not available

Rinse agent is a surfactant--it breaks the surface tension of water so that it will run down, rather than forming a bead. Some are soap. Jakvis's post shows that Finish is more of a detergent. No matter the brand, it should be no worse for you than the residue from dish liquid that hasn't been rinsed well enough. I ABHOR liquid rinse aid because it makes the water in my glass taste soapy. Not harmful. Just unpleasant. The amount they put in powdered form into the Method Smarty Dish tabs or 7th Generation packets isn't so bad. There are plenty of water spots on the plastics, but I don't care. I'd rather have that than soapy glasses. There are a lot of foods (inc. 100% natural ones) that have ingredients that are a lot worse for you than detergent or soap residue.

I would like to know exactly what they contain before I use them. There IS a lot of junk out there that we are ingesting without knowing it, so I like to avoid chemicals whenever I can. I know the labeling laws on household products and also personal care products are WAY outdated... so there can be things in them that are just horrible for us but they never mention it. A GREAT video is Toxic Brew... produced by a Canadian investigative news show, MarketPlace (similar to our 60 Minutes). Excellent video. Highly recommend you watch it. I believe a shortened version is on YouTube--you can also purchase the video.

I totally respect the Environmental Working Group--they work hard to evaluate products. Just came across this & think I will just do dishes by hand from now on: http://www.ewg.org/guides/brand/6685

Jean,

Ecover and Seventh Generation rinse aids both score well on the EWG reviews.

Good luck!

PLEASE READ

Some dish washer detergent contains bleach. When you mix this with vinegar it releases a toxic gas. Same as mixing it with amonia

Thanks everyone who posted an answer or comment to this question. Lots to think about.

I was using jet dry in my Bosch dishwasher but once in a while there was a residue that you could taste/smell on a coffee cup and especially in plastic ware. It made your tongue feel a bit numb as well! I’m using diluted vinegar now and haven’t had any residual taste. Dishes come out perfectly well!

A friend on this forum sent me a case of Lemi-shine rinse aid when I got my new Bosch DW two years ago, stating that Bosch must have rinse aid. I had never used rinse aid before. This one seems to be rather neutral as far as chemicals are concerned. I probably wouldn't use the more mainstream rinse aids as the chemicals make me a little nervous.

In my previous DW I used vinegar in the rinse aid compartment at times. It seemed fine with or without (we have rather soft water here). However I had to replace that DW when it became unrepairable in it's forth year. I'll never know, but did the vinegar cause it's early demise or was it just a dud?