How were the tiles redone without compromising the water proofing?

That is what I would be concerned with right now.

Yes this is diappointing. Things happen that are not understandable as these tile installers are professionals.

Even if you are there watching, things still happen. Our tiles are more uniform but there are a few off beat ones in the mix. Ours had arrows to show the direction of install. Husband caught one going in wrong before it hit the wall.

But…..

These two oddball squiggles are not only near each other but front and center!

Let’s see what the pros say.

Our tiles also were 1/3 offset. That alone might be reason for a redo.

Each tile had a direction arrow.The box specifically stated 1/3 off set with the other pattern samples having slashes through them.

Honestly, I like what you have better than the inspiration photo.

What you need to do is determined by how much this is going to bug you.

I painstakenly laid out each individual tile exactly how I wanted it laid on my fireplace. I made the mistake of going to work, and the installer's nephew was a short-cut artist and slapped the tile up on the fireplace the easiest way that lazy jerk could. I came home from work and saw his work and wanted to throw up.

It was black basalt, and probably to most people, it looked just fine. I just knew how much better it looked laid out how I wanted it. I had it removed and redone. Was it his mistake? Absolutely. Was I going to be the one eating that cost? Probably, even though the installer said that he would eat it. The project was not a fixed price contract, so I imagine that I paid anyway.

Nonetheless, I didn't want to be sitting on my couch for the next 40 years staring at the spot that the jerk nephew didn't lay out right. There are things not exactly done correctly that I can live with, and things like that fireplace, that I knew I just couldn't live with if not done correctly.

in your case, I think that you have a person who just doesn't get it. You need to educate them so they understand and mark tile directions.

Questions:

1. Did they use the same exact tile? It doesn’t look the same to me - and I actually prefer yours (minus the repeats so close).

2. It appears that they did slant the veining in a consistent direction - however, what the installer didn’t do (that the other installer did) was do it in a mannner that made the veins appear to run from one tile into the next (in order to make the walls look more like a slab vs. individual tiles).

Also, the grout color seems to match better to the background on the first shower - also makes the individual tiles less prominent.

3. Important question - same as @eld6161 - how did they address waterproofing???

How many different patterns are there for this tile?

The first shower has a lot of repeat tiles also -

I didn’t take a lot of time to mark up this photo - just circled the ones that I noticed immediately.

The desired shower has the tiles laid straight/stacked, which is the only way to get a consistent flow of veins across the whole wall. Why did you ask for 1/3 offset?

Cheaper tiles might also only have 4 - 6 patterns that are repeated, so it is hard to get a random look, as your eye will easily pick up the repeats.

Your tile setter is probably not paid enough by the builder, and/or have enough experience, to do more than just pull out tiles from each box as he opens them. A good/experienced tile setter will open most of the boxes and mix up tiles to get a pleasing overall layout.

Your expectations are not realistic with your choice and your directions to the setter. Marble look tiles are better with a random pattern lay in a stacked bond. Do not try to get things to have the same direction veining. That just looks way more fake.

On the question of why was there instruction for 1/3 offset: The existing shower in the nearby home had a 1/3 offset, and the design studio recommended the same for the new-build shower.

I find your inspiration photo to be really off-putting. I prefer your shower. I understand what you wanted, and I think the way to realistically achieve that is to get marble slabs. How important will this be to you in three years?

All of this said, even if they didn't do the offset, they could have made sure about where each tile was placed. Looks like they rushed through it.

On the brighter side, on my monitor, the actual tile work looks good. So no problems there.

Since this is your private bathroom and not a kitchen on display, you will eventually let it go.

However, I think you should be compensated some how for both the arrangement and not getting the offset requested.

This is porcelain tile. It is supposed to be random on 1/3 offset, and yours looks better - you can NOT expect it to read as a slab of real marble, and nobody sits at the distribution center for Daltile, mixing up a "slab" concept for you - with no clue how you plan to install , what offset, no offset stack or any other!

Rather than be concerned about vein direction and line up? PRAY the waterproofing is intact, and move on. It is perfectly fine.

Unfortunately you also need to remember that this was not a custom home but a developer/tract type home. While some customization is available, they do not have the top of the line installers. They are production builders and time is money. And as @Jan Moyer mentions above, truly hope they did not compromise the water proofing system when they redid the tile as they surely did not do that all over. All that being said, I think yours actually looks better than the inspiration shower.

I think yours looks better than your inspo pic.

FUNCTION FUNCTION FUNCTION. Do you have a guarantee on the water barrier? Bet it is now null and void. Beware.

Folks? You are all in dreamland as it applies to tract/production build.

I wouldn't have messed with the first install. For ALL you know? The inspo shower was "dumb luck" .

These builder do not have artisan quality subs - they'd make no profit if they did. You'd pay a LOT more for a home. They are what they are.

@ arcy_gw

On a brand new home, if they remove the tile don't you think they would redo the waterproofing as well? If you replace tile after 10 years you have to replace the water barrier. If you replace tile after 10 days I would think you have to replace the water barrier.

Don't most new builds come with a guarantee, where any defects are corrected by the builder during the first 3 years? Wouldn't the water barrier be part of that guarantee?

Being the person that I am I would have been at the site and watching what they did because I don't trust anyone to do things right. Then again, they would not have put up the tile the way they did because I would have had to approve the layout of the tiles before they were installed.

I did not read all comments, but my first thought when I saw the inspiration photo is that it looks too contrived. That is not how tiles should be set; and you have to wonder how it came to be in a production build. The 1/3 offset is done because large format tiles can warp during the firing process. An excellent installer with the proper tiling system can tweak that; but for the rest, manufacturer put specs. Yours is much better visually with the exception of those couple pieces. I'm not sure I'd touch it and invite issues.

" On a brand new home, if they remove the tile don't you think they would redo the waterproofing as well? "

In theory but it is a tract home, so you never know.

" Don't most new builds come with a guarantee, where any defects are corrected by the builder during the first 3 years? Wouldn't the water barrier be part of that guarantee? "

Should be, but you may not signs of the waterproofing being compromised in 3 years, most often it takes longer than that. Most tract home warranties I believe are a year.

There is so much help offered here, I thank each of you for commenting. I have a call with the builder tomorrow to go over this. You have helped me collect my thoughts and to prepare for the discussion, and, importantly, to set expectations.

I think, in the end, and putting aside the mismatch of expectations and results, the thing that bugs me the most, is the repeated tiles close together. There was no reason for that. I installed plank flooring in my current home, and I recall the instructions diagramming how to lay out the planks so that the repeats would be spread out and not easy to spot.

On the question of warranty: There is a one-year warranty for everything. We will have an inspection at 11 months after closing, for anything that may be wrong with the shower, and, the home in general.

On the idea of using a visualizer: That's a great thought. I have done some research and see that some programs and software are available, but I was previously unfamiliar with this. Next time, for sure.

The inspiration photo has the exact same tiles in a diagonal line several times. That's the difference amd why it looks like it does.

Put some things in the shower (like how it will be ued every day). Your eye will look at other things . Visually, this is an appealing shower.

You are 100% focused on this because "this" is the thing that was just done. While it's a large part of your bathroom, it's still only a PART of your bathroom. Once you are in, decorated, have stuff in the shower, even if only to stage for some photos - it's only a PART of the whole.

Deep breath. If the quaity of the workmanship is good - let this go.

We put a similar Daltile product in a client's bath and yes, it's supposed to look like that. I think we used a darker colorway, but it's actually marble tile. (The niche tile is ceramic, except for the pencil liner around the niche.)

Redwood City Kitchen and Bath Remodel · More Info

Redwood City Kitchen and Bath Remodel · More Info

You need to let this go. No sooner than unpacking?

There will be something else.

As with all new things? The newness wears off and real life begins. Matters not what ”new ” item or surface or even a dining table!

Rather like marriage and couples……:)

I have to add this - and people may be tired of hearing it.

The one year (or three year) warranty does not matter.

Most claims originate under a different legal theory (breach of contract/negligence, for example) - not under breach of warranty.

Just because a builder (or some contractor) has a one year warranty DOES NOT = NO RECOURSE AFTER THE EXPIRATION OF THE FIRST YEAR!

If builders/contractors can make people think they have no recourse after one year, that is a HUGE benefit to them. It prevents people from looking into claims for faulty/negligent work after the first 12 months.

If the builder was negligent by removing the original tiles and damaged the waterproofing in OP’s shower - and OP doesn’t realize it until the shower starts leaking four years later, OP still can recover under a breach of contract or negligence claim (every statute I’ve read addressing breach of a written contract had at least a 5 year statute of limitations).

Negligence statute of limitations typically do not start to run until the discovery of the negligence (or when the negligence should have been discovered). In my jurisdiction, there is a two year statute of limitations for bringing a negligence claim = if the negligence is discovered in year seven, the plaintiff can file suit until year nine (two years after discovery).

There are also statutes that cover new residential construction - and provide remedies to homeowners (there are also statutes that cover renovations/services to an existing home).

Please don’t fall for the one year warranty expiration = no recourse language in your contract. It is not your only recourse.

EDIT - some jurisdictions have ”statutes or repose” = an outside time limit to cut off negligence claims. In my jurisdiction, it is 10 years = regardless of when the negligence is discovered, you only have ten years to file a lawsuit (this was enacted to cut off malpractice claims by doctors after ten years - lobbying by insurance companies - but it applies to all negligence claims, in general). Other jurisdictions may or may not have a similar statute of repose.

Let’s also put to rest the often repeated ”legal advice” that if the homeowner doesn’t have a written contract, he/she/they have no recourse.

P.S. Sorry if this comes across as nasty - not my intent. I am a bit ”cranky” today - no sleep past two nights.

@ dani_m08 - stay cranky - this was great information to share.

If you get another crack at this, tell them you want to be there to lay out the tiles beforehand so you get what you want. I've done this with veigned marble in my own bathroom. It's a lot of work but is the best way to assure a successful install.

".............thing that bugs me the most, is the repeated tiles close together. There was no reason for that. I installed plank flooring in my current home, and I recall the instructions diagramming how to lay out the planks so that the repeats would be spread out and not easy to spot."

You laid out the planks?. How long did it take, as you or the installer meticulously followed the instructions for a SINGLE task within your home?

Tract build is all work schedules. Only so many workers can be in a space, (custom is a bit more forgiving) there is pecking order, there can be no sub down time, as down time is profit loss. The "dumb luck veining" of the other shower? Bet on it : ) Or the sub couldn't get into another house, and had time on his hands.

Your perfectly acceptable shower aligns with the home you purchased. The more you peck at perfection, the greater the chance it will not. Particularly when the water begins to seep from you won't know where......or when.

Most important?

"Is the new-build shower acceptable?

What would you do?

Suggestions?"

Answers below:

Emphatically , yes

and.............Nothing: )

What is with the negative attitude toward tract homes? I lived in two homes that were built about the same time and both built well. One was a tract home and one was a custom build.

Two of my siblings lived in tract homes that were beautiful and well built, two live in custom builds that are beautiful and well built.

Tract homes are lower in cost than building a one off custom home. Standardization always produces gains in efficiency. Building multiple homes with similar designs allows for standardized production and that leads to lower costs.

The standardized design also helps avoid some pitfalls of custom built. The floorplans are standardized based on what works. Repetition isn't always the enemy. No "oops! we forgot to consider that". These homes have been built and lived in and the floorplans tweaked as the owners provided feedback.

This does not mean that every tract home builder is the builder equivalent to a slum lord. There are a lot of beautiful and well built tract homes built by builders who take pride in the developments they have built and value their reputation as quality builders.

There is no shame in purchasing a tract home or any reason that you should automatically expect poor workmanship or low quality work just because you purchased a tract home.

This is a tract home:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Rancho-Santa-Fe/7045-Corte-Laguna-92091/home/6539991

" What is with the negative attitude toward tract homes "

Nothing wrong with tract homes per se. They are built with reptation and speed in mind. The options are limited and the skillset of the all installers often is limited as well, as they make money by volume, not necessarily higher quality due to the time frame they need to complete the project and make money.

There is nothing "wrong" with tract or production, as LONG as you understand the are not custom, or even semi custom.

Don't apply the expectations for more than they are, or can provide. You make that choice, when you decide price and delivery speed are more important the the highest quality, or breadth of selection, or finishing quality in every inch of the house.

I can’t tell the difference between your two photos of your bathroom. Are you sure they changed it all?

Thanks for asking about the difference.

1st Attempt photo is not shown,,

it was a stacked tile layout and was demolished.

2nd Attempt is one photo, but reproduced and placed side by side, with itself with the view on the right showing duplicated tiles.

For anyone checking this thread for the result:

After referring to Daltile's guidance that a number of tile boxes should be opened and the tiles mixed to create variety in the installation, the builder agreed that the installation of repeated tiles close to each other needed to be remedied. The builder replaced six tiles in all, which resulted in a good improvement. As for tiles that were counter to the general lean of the veins, they remain in place. We'll live with those.