kitchen ideas

10 years ago

hi, we are planning on redoing our kitchen. but we don't have any idea of what to do. I'm looking for suggestions on how to layout everything. oven, fridge, counter space....

Note:
-size of kitchen 11 X 13
- the Window in the corner beside the book shelves is lower then normal counter high, so we are looking on removing it and closing the hole...
- the wall between dining room and kitchen will be removed

HELP PLEASE!!!!! LOL

Featured Answer

PRO

Wyland Interior Design Center

10 years ago

last modified: 10 years ago

General Info regarding "Pantry Closet" verse "Pantry Cabinets".

In my many years designing kitchens, I have found the many of my clients have the misconception that “Pantry Closets” have more storage than a “Pantry Cabinet”. This is not true. A cabinet industry fact, you gain far more storage in a “Pantry Cabinet” than a “Pantry Closet”. In doing the math, here is why?

If you have a “Pantry Closet”, go to your closet an open it up and look inside.

1). Are the shelves in your “Pantry Closet” the full depth of the closet? Typically not, most have either 12" deep to 18” deep. Leaving wasted space in front of the shelves. Creating “Dead Air Space” that could be used for storage. Look at how much space is being wasted!

* A “Pantry Cabinet” shelves are usually always 22” deep. * Many of my clients chose
to add roll-out trays into a “Pantry Cabinets” for easy access to reach the back of the
shelf. More storage per shelf.

2). Are the shelves in your “Pantry Closet” fixed to the wall and not adjustable? Again, most of the time that is the case. Stand back, how much waste space to you see between each shelf? Usually, there will be 6" to 8" of dead air space that could be used for storage.

* The shelves in a “Pantry Cabinet” are all adjustable, so you can adjust the shelves too exactly where you want them utilizing every inch of space. Again, gaining more storage.

3). A typical 8 FT ceiling “Pantry Closet” has only 4, maybe 5 shelves if you lucky.

* A “Pantry Cabinet” that is 8 FT tall will normally come with 7 to 8 shelves, but you can fit up to 9 shelves.

4). Why does a “Pantry Cabinet” has more shelves than “Pantry Closet”? Look at the top of your “Pantry Closet”. Do you see the header above the door that block 12” above the door? Most “Pantry Closets” will leave that area with no shelving or maybe a 12” deep. The header makes it impossible to reach up and around the header to the top area. Again more wasted space that is not being utilized.

* A 8 Ft tall “Pantry Cabinet”, you open the door and you can reach all the way to the top with a 22” deep shelf. Hence, utilizing all the space.

5). The “Pantry Closet” have a 4-3/4" thick wall to the side and in front where the door is, making the square footage of the “Pantry Closet” less than a cabinet.

* A “Pantry Cabinet” gains you another 3-3/4" to 4" more space in width, with the side walls of cabinet being 1/2" on each side with a total of 1" wall.

So to summarize:
A typical 24” wide x 24” deep x 8Ft high “Pantry Closet” has storage space of 16.17 SF.
VERSES,

A typical 24” wide x 24” deep x 8Ft high “Pantry Closet” has storage space of 31.75 SF.

Almost double of the space! So when designing a kitchen, you need more storage go with a “Pantry Cabinet” and not a closet.

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Comments (40)

PRO
Sustainable Dwellings
10 years ago
A complete overhaul? what is the budget?
Julie Jacques thanked Sustainable Dwellings
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
Yes, complete overhaul with a 10000$ budget
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PRO
Sustainable Dwellings
10 years ago
I think new hardware, tops, and backsplash could make a big difference there. $10K will not go as far as you may think, however, my suggestions might bring you in under budget. Good luck to you. Please post pics when you get it done.
houssaon
10 years ago
I wouldn't knock down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room, I don't think it would add anything and you'll loose counter and cabinet space. Is the are including the area with the bookcase included in your 11 by 13 measurements?
houssaon
10 years ago
I think your layout is petty good right now. I would make the cabinet between the stove and the refrigerator smaller, so you could add small one to the left of the stove. I'd get a microwave unit that fits over the stove.
PRO
Kathryn Peltier Design
10 years ago
Will the dining room on the other side of the wall be your eating area? Are you, therefore, planning on making the space beyond the peninsula part of the kitchen work space? A design I have used on quite a few kitchens is to partially open the wall between the kitchen and the dining room and hang a 2- or 3- sided glass cabinet over the open base area. This gives you more visual contact with the table area, but still keeps the kitchen mess out of view and retains some wall cabinets.
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Your $10,000 budget is pretty low, even if you do the work yourself. I hate to say, but it really isn't going to give you much. I agree with Sustainable Dwelling suggestions.

If you were thinking new cabinets, I would replace the pantry closet with a pantry cabinet, you would gain about 4" from the wall thickness. In the same space as the closet you could add 18" wide to 24" wide pantry cabinet and next to it a 9" or 12" wide tray cabinet to left of range. This would utilize the space better. Along with extra countertop space on that side of range. Pantry Cabinet would give you more storage than the closet.

Take a look at Showplace Wood Products, Renew (reface) program. You could replace the doors for much less than new cabinets.

Flooring- Keep it looks nice. Select products that will complement the flooring.

Countertops- To stretch your budget look at the new Wilsonart laminates and edges. It looks so much like granite, it is really amazing. See photo below. Add a 4" backsplash or a 4x12 high listello and paint walls above.
vmedin1900
10 years ago
Don't get rid of the pantry! I think you will regretted since as it is it does not look like you have much storage space elsewhere . Extend counter space all the way to the end of wall where you have the breakfast nook.
vmedin1900
10 years ago
Removing the upper cabinets to create an opening unto your dining area will make the kitchen feel bigger.
redoak87
10 years ago
$10,000 is not too low depending on how much work you want to put in yourself. Unless the cabinets are in terrible shape, they don't seem to be, I would keep them, freshen them with paint. Definitely new countertops.

The biggest problem I see with your kitchen is the odd placement of the stove which is precariously far from the sink and away from the general flow of the kitchen. In a perfect world, perhaps moving it to an expanded peninsula, since the kitchen eating nook seems small anyway, then finding a new location for your dishwasher which could tie into your sink. That may get a pricey, but it's worth looking in to.

I would definitely advise keeping the pantry which is incredibly valuable and the amount of construction and work needed to remove would be huge compared to the minimal benefit.
Lanitra Bynum
10 years ago
First of all your sink and stove is too far apart from each other. You have to walk across the kitchen with your pots and pans when you are cooking. So your stove needs to be where your refrigerator is or next to the sink on the right of the sink. But I would close off the window where that bookshelf is and put that bookshelf somewhere else in the house and just put upper and lower cabinets along that whole wall because you don't have a lot of cabinet space. Take out that peninsula (bar) in the middle of the floor don't need it. If you do that maybe you can put an island in the kitchen. Knocking down that wall is a great idea and put a bar there with some barstools. I would prefer a high bar with pendant lighting and recessed lighting for the rest of the kitchen. But if you choose to buy white cabinets, you can use stainless steel cabinet knobs and some granite countertops. Or whatever countertops are your favorite.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
I have to admit that on the pictures the cabinets don't look too bad but they are! very old, out dated, doors don't close....

we are planning on ripping everything down and starting from scratch but I don't know what to place where.... As for the budget it might seem low but we will be doing a lot ourselves and we are having a good price on the cabinet.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
this is the plan someone gave us, sorry it's in French...oven on top, dishwasher beside sink, and in the Mt corner, it's gonna be cabinet, I was planning to install an old wood stove but we are not allowed in Montreal, so change of plan....

so I'm not sure if I like this layout...suggestions?

I also thought about putting a pantry in the Mt corner in diagonal, but someone told me my kitchen is too Small????
artemis1
10 years ago
I would definitely take the wall out and get rid of the peninsula. I did the same thing in my last two kitchens and never regretted it. It feels so much larger. Formal dining rooms are fine, if you have the space. Otherwise; a larger kitchen is way more practical. Can you provide a drawing with layout and dimensions? Your appliances seem to be in good shape, so I think you can do this for about 10 grand. There are some nice laminates for counter tops. Not sure if you are going to reside the house. How are you going to fill in the window? If you are residing anyway, I would reframe and make one larger window, above the sink. Don't give up too much light.
Julie Jacques thanked artemis1
artemis1
10 years ago
Sorry, your drawing beat my comment.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
As for the rest would you keep it like the plan? I feel there's too much on the long wall, fridge, pantry oven..... how would you fill up the Mt space? On the other side of the wall it a stair case to go outside, my husband was planning on opening that wall also??? Any thought
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
10 years ago
PLEASE!!! Before opening any walls you NEED to confirm with contractor that it can be done, making sure that walls are not a structural walls. I know of a do-it-yourselfer that removed walls that were structural. The roof caved in and killing his two children. The mishap was not covered by insurance company either, since he didn't have a building inspector inspect his work making sure it was to code and he didn't have stamped plans confirming that it could be done.

Even if either wall is structural, it can still be opened up with adding an I-Beam to distribute the weight load. However, This IS NOT a do-it-yourself project and would need to be done by a licensed contractor with approved drawings and build permits. VERY costly!

Did you get a chance to price out the cabinets with the company the drew up the plans?

You need to have a working triangle. In terms of the plans, having the stove and refrigerator on that wall is perfect and not that far to walk to. There is no room to have the refrigerator by the sink and should be across from it.

The plan seems to work okay. Moving the stove and hood to where it is shown on the plan, this will add more expense due to re-venting hood and close off old vent, as well as moving electrical. Looking at the long wall, consider placing the refrigerator next to wall on the left. Move the pantry to the opposite end, making sure you have enough room between the pantry and end of peninsula. Then center the stove/ range in the middle between them. Where the range is in the plan now, it is blocking traffic patterns and would not be very workable.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you for all those ideas,

Just to make sure I understand properly, you would put the fridge in front of the peninsula? Wouldn't that block the entrance to the kitchen?

And the Mt space on the right of the sink...? We should just fill it with cabinets?

Yes, we have checked, the only wall that can't be removed without putting beams it the one behind the fridge and oven. So we are not touching it at all.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
yes, the price for the cabinet and counter top, the way you see it on the picture came to 8500$. Friends of ours owns the business. I am just looking of new ideas or suggestions to make sure we have the best kitchen for the space as thus will be our last house....;)
PRO
Kathryn Peltier Design
10 years ago
Julie, what is the space at the top right hand, under the window for? Are you going to try to fit a table in? You could run cabinets underneath this window to create a window seat. If you don't want a table, you could turn the corner, replacing the bookshelf with 12" deep, floor to ceiling cabinets (maybe leaving an opening in the middle for display). 12" stores a multitude of items!
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
the Window is lower then the counter, so we are planning on removing the Window and closing the hole, there's already another Window in the kitchen. At first I thought about putting a wood burning oven, but the city won't allow it, then I thought about putting a pantry cabinet but many told me it would take too much room for the small amount of storing it going to provide. So I'm thinking about continuing the counter and adding some cabinets....
PRO
Kathryn Peltier Design
10 years ago
That window gives you a lot of nice light. What about just installing a smaller window, to match the one over the sink (is this the other window to which you're referring?) Or, just drop your cabinets underneath the window; you could drop it back to a 12"d cabinet there, which would also give the kitchen some interest. You will gain an enormous amount of cabinet space just by running cabinets underneath and up to the window. Use a corner cabinet and continue onto the interior wall with the 12"d or even the regular base cabinets. You can do this without removing the window and it will save you money. too.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
that's what we were looking on doing, I understand what you are suggesting, I just gave a hard time picturing it. Would you have a picture of something similar?
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Hi julie016,

I have attached two different option layouts.

First, the stove/ range in your drawing is too close to the peninsula and walk way. If someone was cooking it would be hard for someone to get by them. This is why I recommend moving it over.

Option One is what I was describing above on another post. A two door Pantry Cabinet all the way to the right across from peninsula. Make sure you have 42” distance between the front of Pantry Cabinet and peninsula. The refrigerator (REF) all the way to the left wall next to wall with door. You would need to switch the REF door around so it hinges on the left instead of the right like it is now. Then move stove/ range and hood above down to the left so it is centered on that wall. Depending how your existing hood is vented in the ceiling, the hood could possibly be close enough that the contractor may be able to tie into the old vent going out the roof with elbow vents. You need to check with contractor, as well as local building codes. See drawing.

Option Two would be the best use of space and would cost more than your budget. Since you mentioned it will be your last house, it would be worth spending more to make it what you want it to be. In this plan as labeled, I would replace the existing window with on that is the same width as it is now but make it shorter to match the sink window. Keeping the same height up from floor to bottom of window. By doing this you minimize the cost and labor of siding the outside of the house. You are probably only looking at may be 6” to 8” high repair. You could add flower planter boxes under each window to hide it or be creative and add some type of higher trim to cover both windows at the bottom so they match one another.

Now move refrigerator over and wrap cabinets around the corner. The upper area left of the refrigerator you can add open shelving or a custom depth cabinet, since it looks like you have less the 12” deep there. See drawing.

The rendering you attached above, you certainly could eliminate the window and add cabinets. Just to be realistic you probably doubled your budget. You could still move the refrigerator where I did in Option Two. I still recommend moving the stove, range over to help with traffic flow.
Julie Jacques thanked Wyland Interior Design Center
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Also you stated above, "I thought about putting a pantry cabinet but many told me it would take too much room for the small amount of storing it going to provide". I have specialized in designing kitchens for almost 30 years, that simply is not true. Uhm?...Did a Pro tell you this? I disagree, Pantry Cabinets are the best way to gain storage in a the "smallest amount of space". Now Pantry Closets are a different story.
dawncarter1968
10 years ago
I would put stove on sink wall near where window is getting closed in. Dishwasher to right if sink. Open wall into dining room but leave 27" to stop cabinets against. Center fridge in current wall then put base and wall cabinets on either side. A small work island may fit as well.
PRO
Kathryn Peltier Design
10 years ago
Here is as close as I can probably get. If you look at the cabinet next to this window seat, you will see the first 2 are shallow (the base looks a bit deeper here, but this could be a solid wall of cabinets).
Beach Style Kitchen · More Info

Of course, this does mean you are losing counter space. How about using a backsplash window in your proposed plan? That would allow you to keep some natural light and still put cabinets all along that wall :-)
mill valley house · More Info
Julie Jacques
Original Author
10 years ago
@Wyland, I meant pantry closet, I totally agree with you and other pro told me the same. It will definitely be a pantry cabinet!

Thank you so kook much for taking the time to do those plans. To bad you are not located in Montreal!!!! ;)
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
10 years ago
Hi julie016,

I have no doubt that there are plenty certified kitchen designer in Montreal area. Contact some cabinet dealers or interior designer studios that specialize in kitchen design and layout. Be sure to ask to see samples of their work and check out references.
Julie Jacques thanked Wyland Interior Design Center
PRO
VT Industries
10 years ago
We would definitely suggest a countertop replacement. Take a look at some laminate options in our VT Dimensions collection. Very affordable and durable, and many options that stay within your budget. You can still get the look of real store at a fraction of the cost. Please let us know if you have any questions! http://vtindustries.com/dimensions-countertops
Julie Jacques thanked VT Industries
Julie Jacques
Original Author
9 years ago
almost finished!
Julie Jacques
Original Author
9 years ago
what to do with the range hoods.? Prebuilt cabiner didn't leave me much space. I was going to instsll cabinet on top of it but there's only 29" 1/2 wide. Sine the cabinets are from ikea, i cant have them built to fit....what can I do to finish the area?
cottageisland
9 years ago
New kitchen looks fabulous! It would be good to have cabinets above the hood - I have a duct running through mine and there is still space for olive oil etc. Maybe Ikea cabs can be modified by a cabinet maker. Or have a coordinating panel made to just cover it. Best of luck. Love Montreal!
Sheri
9 years ago
Wow it really looks great! I bet you're pleased.

As for the range hood, I would look for a free standing one that would fit there....that would look the best. Getting a panel made or modified would be a good idea too.
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Here are a few ideas for above the hood:

First, I would have a framed panel made to resemble the shaker door, with the same sized stile as the cabinet doors with the center hollow (similar to if it was to accept glass). This will give it a custom look and a way to fasten to some blocking behind it. Paint frame panel in the same color as your cabinets. Sherwin Williams Paint can match it to the exact color for you. Consider adding the options below to the center area.

1). Metal laminate panel in a stainless steel to match appliances. Check NuMetal, Chemetal or DecoMetal brands. * See photo 1- top left.
2). Add cement backer board and tile the center area in a mosaic tile that matches the tile back splash or something that complements. * See photo 2- top right.
3). Add Lumicor or 3Form resin panel to the center. You can order them so they are opaque so it blocks the pipe behind. Or add a painted backer board behind it or paint the backside of the lumicor panel. For additional lighting, you could illuminate behind the panel with led lights. * See photos 3 and 4- on bottom.
PRO
Wyland Interior Design Center
9 years ago
Here is two jobs where I have used Lumicor panels. The backsplash behind the stove is the large oval metal panel that we painted the wall behind it. The other is a privacy window in a bathroom area. The other was taken from Lumicor's website.
Julie Jacques
Original Author
8 years ago
One year later, I thought I would share some pictures of the final results. We finally decided to go with Ikea...I used some of your ideas....so thank you all for your suggestions! !!!
Julie Jacques
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi everyone,

Here's what we've done by taking a little bit of everyone's ideas!
Thank you all
Julie Jacques
Original Author
7 years ago
Some more