Its organic farming plus a handful of magical rituals and a very effective public relations group. They downplay its origins but it was revealed divinely to its creator through anthorostophy.

They claim to be the first to put all of organic together, but thats a bald faced lie, organic was happening long before them and never stopped at any point, all they did was take organic and start burying Elk bladders during the full moon stuffed with Yarro.

"Bio-dynamic Farming" is organic farming with the belief that anything you do to the land (farm) effects the land (farm) as a whole. Just a term that mean what take pages to say.

Simply put, what you do any where on this earth (no matter how small) effects the entire earth to some degree. It is an idealistic way of thinking and is full of truth. What we do does effect the whole picture.

Very well put seramas, I could not explain it any better than that! I agree that some of the explanation gets a bit muddled at times.

Agreed seramas, a good succint description, though lacking in dripping sarcasm and derision.

My knowledge and experience in organic gardening and agriculture began at nearby Threefold Farm, the source of BioDynamic teaching in America.

A link below may help to find basic info about BioDynamics.

Wayne

Here is a link that might be useful: Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association

'sarcasm and derision' best left to our resident wet blanket.

LOL!! Thanks for the link.

Biodynamic farming does look at things in the holistic and ideal way, and there is some good solid practice involved, that does not mean that it is equivalent to holistic gardening. There are a number of philosophies of farm and garden and ecology that absolutely fit Seramas's description, but are not "biodynamic" farming.

"Biodynamic farming" is the method of farming put forward by Rudolf Steiner. If you aren't using the preparations you aren't doing biodynamic agriculture.

In order to fight a weed or pest problem you are supposed to take the ashes from a wooden flame used to burn the weeds or pests and sprinkle them on the field, then take some urine that has been exposed to the light of a full moon for six hours and spray that on the field.

Prepairation 501 for instance involved burying crushed quartz in a cow horn and burying it in spring and digging it up in autumn. Then diluting it 1 teaspoon in 250 liters of water. If you aren't doing that you aren't doing biodynamic agriculture.

These preparations must be used in homeopathic quantities, and unlikely to produce a result.

If you aren't using astrology to plan your crop rotation you aren't practicing biodynamic agriculture.

Biodynamic is a trademark, its not a word like holistic or responsible, if your practice fits Seramas's description (and really we should all be keeping those things in mind when we do anything, all of our choices echo on beyond our reach) that does not mean that you are farming biodynamically any more than gardening in a small space makes you a square foot gardener, or having a method for shaving makes you a "Method Shaving" practitioner.

The OP asked about what the difference is, the difference is the magical rituals.

And so saith the 'resident wet blanket.' Do I hear a Amen?

Ad hominem?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ad hominem

I bow my head for
He That Knows All
has spoken.

Three things.

Firstly, sarcasm isn't really my thing, not because I don't want to be sarcastic, but rather because I'm really not that funny, and sarcasm requires humor. Derision was accurate, my post was dripping with disapproval.

Secondly, I think Stick in the mud is probably a more accurate idiom.

Thirdly, I actually heard a description that was functionally identical to Seramas's description a few years back and for about a month went around talking about Biodynamic agriculture, because we can all agree with what he said and the importance and it supported my semiorganic gardening style and the arguments I made for such an approach to food and ornamental plant culture. After a while I had someone suggest that I looked past the one line intro written by the proponents and I got a book (Agriculture Course: The Birth of the Biodynamic Method) from the library and skimmed it and was blown away by what it said, and not in a good way.

Fourthly, I said three things, relax, this particular point is pointless, Oh no, a paradox!

While I may not be as articulate as b_of_b, I would like to express my appreciation to him for saying what he believes or thinks, no matter what others may think or say.
I don't mind having my comfortable, and sometimes ignorant, way of thinking challenged.
I am being deceived on so many different levels, that it is a good thing to have someone come along and make me take another long, hard look at something I believe to be a fact.

Thank you everyone for all your responses to a novice. The definition I heard was way over my novice gardening/farming head. I really appreicate all the definitions and fitting them so I could I understand. Hocus Pocus I'm thinking :)

Thanks OldPea

Glad to help OrganicJunkie

>Hocus Pocus I'm thinking :)

Perhaps but those who successfully follow the methods, both in gardens and commercially, might say "so what?"

Apparantly "hocus pocus" has some degree of success. I won't argue with that.

Wayne

When people of like mind gather together for good purpose what does it matter what their rituals are when the outcome is good? Their intent is not to control the actions of individuals but to align their thinking in a positive direction.

I can remember Grandma not planting potatoes, peas and beans before certain lunar positions. Some say it is 'hocus pocus' but it worked for her and many before her.

The power of positive thinking, believing it will work, and the collective faith of many have healed the sick--'hocus pocus'.

So simply put; If the horse is going your way--why walk?!?!

Why add the extra hocus pocus though?

I don't think my posts indicated that biodynamic agriculture as a whole didn't work, just that it was a combination of things that do not work and some hocus pocus. It seems like we should be able to pear away the magical thinking and focus on the things that work.

I'm assuming from your support of biodynamic agriculture that you follow some of its components, do you make the preparations? Do you plant based on the astrology? Do you burn your pests and sprinkle their ashes on your field? What makes what you do Biodynamic agriculture rather than just good Organic practice?

>"I'm assuming from your support of biodynamic agriculture that you follow some of its components, do you ......"

I do practice some of the tenents that suit me but "supporting" something is hardly the same as practicing it to the letter.

In fact one can "support" something without practicing any of it's tenents. This thread could just as well be about any religious belief that I do not practice but would "support" when it is described by someone with with such derision. That there are spiritual aspects to this method seems to be your main objection. Perhaps you are ignorant of the fact that this gardening method grew out of the already existing spiritual teachings of Steiner. Many beliefs project their teachings and philosophies into their every day, mundane work involving the human existance and BioDynamics grew in just such a way.

Since much of modern religion consists of what some believe to be "hocus pocus" and its practitioners often feel reasonably secure that it works for them, would you deride them also and ask "why add the extra hocus pocus?" Well, maybe you would, but it is of no importance to anyone. Spiritual practices, such as those observed by the major religions down to lesser known beliefs, have no need to defend themselves against those who chose to dismiss them out of hand.

I hope some true practitioners of this method will offer a more detailed answer to the original poster's question.

Wayne

Wayne, I feel the same. Not being a practitioner of Bio-dynamic Farming I do believe its' end results are good for everyone on this planet. We must hold to a belief (what every it may be) that will ensure our (mankind's) survival beyond our own existence. Just look around at the crap we're pushing onto our children's' children. If we are doing this to our own children imagine what we're doing to mankind collectively!!!

All of what you said would be very important if my argument were that Biodynamic farming and all of its components are a bad thing. However that is a straw man, my real position is that everything good in Biodynamic Gardening is already covered in holistic organic gardening, and that it does not infact add anything to the practices inherent in holistic organic gardening that are of any use to any one or the environment. Name me one thing someone who is practicing run of the mill organic gardening can do to take a step towards biodynamic that will help anything and you will go a long way towards proving me wrong. As I see it people who understood soils and plants and animals and ecosystems did all of the hard work, then Rudolf Steiner stepped in, added some magical formulas, and claimed all of the benefits for himself and his hard work; when you give him the credit you fail to give it to the people who actually figured out how to do what really works, it would be like crediting Watson and Crick for DNA but leaving Franklin out of the picture, only worse, because Watson and Crick actually added something of value to the picture by being the first to put it together.
Yopu like the title, you like the subtitle, but when it comes to the other parts of the program you don't bother, yet you defend them despite their not working and not being worth your time, we should be willing to cut out the things that do not work and leave in in the things that do work, and when you do that the only difference between biodynamic agriculture and holistic organic agriculture is the title and subtitle!

I'll make a representative system , some people were doing A B C and D for farming, others were doing A B C and E F G instead. D was causing problems. Steiner came along and said lets do A B C E F G and H, some dropped D did A B C E F and G while others dropped D and did A B C E F G and H. Years later The H practioners are Claiming Credit for E F and G while all they really brought to the table was H, and we can all agree that H does nothing, but the H practitio0ners have claimed E F and G so you are just letting them have credit, and dogmatically defending them for it. They did things right and they added hocus pocus, lets give them credit for doing things right, lets not give them credit for everyone else who did things right and didn;'t add hocus pocus. We would have been just fine with out H and probably would have had more people doing E F and G if they knew that H wasn't involved.

Brendan, all cars basically do the same thing; but as you know; some prefer their fenders to bent a different way!

You miss totally the concept that things that may be beyond your comprehension might have value and might actually work. I do know that your minimal knowledge of the history of BioDynamics is simplistic. (It appears you've taken the crash-course by looking it up on Wikipedia.) Rather than one person "claiming it for himself" the method was initially developed in conjunction with Steiner and others, most notably Dr. Pfeiffer, and continued to evolve over the past 80 or so years.

I have no interest or need to "prove you wrong." That you make statements indicating various aspects of BioDynamics do not work without offering the basis of your statements is enough to indicate you are not speaking from experience or from facts. For example, you do not demonstrate that Preparation 501 is ineffective in its use as a field spray. Have you run trials on Preparation 500? How about the other preparations designed to be used on compost opr manure? I'd like to hear your rationale for dismissing the methods categorically. We won't even go into the astronomical aspects.

As I am not as well versed in the method as to be able to speak of it with authority, (although you appear to assume to posses the authority to debunk it,) I hope that an active practitioner of BioDynamics might stop by and discuss it. As ill-prepared as I am to do justice to an explaination of the system, you seem far less qualified to dismiss it.

Wayne