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motherjan

weeds, weeds and more weeds !!

15 years ago

Last summer I had more weeds than perennials. I went to a friend's home and in all her gardens I didn't see one weed. I asked her what she did and she said in the early spring she put down 6 sheets of newspapers, wet them, then put down mulch.

This old gal's mind isn't what it used to be, so I just can't fathom how perennials will come through all of that.

What kind of mulch would be best? How thick should be put down? I have nothing to amend the soil with and wonder what I could use other than compost.

I can no longer work my gardens, (have to pay someone do do the work,so I have to carefully watch the $$.) I do plan to order a yard or so of mulch.

Any/all help will be greatly appreciated.

Comments (13)

  • 15 years ago

    The best mulch material to use is that which you can get at the least cost and shredded leaves are really good as mulch. Layers of newspaper on your soil will help extend the mulch you may have because with the newspaper there you do not need quite as much of the material that will both hold the paper in place and hide it from view.
    The newspaper acts as a light blocker so plants the try to grow do not have access to the sunlight they need and then don't grow, but just how many sheets are necessary depends on what you have growing. I have not found a need to wet the sheets of paper before laying them down and in fact I find that the paper tends to rip too easily if it is wet. The theory of using wet paper is that it will stay in place and not get blown around by the wind, but I find that having some mulch material handy as I lay the paper down and plunking some of that on the paper works better at holding the paper in place.
    You will need to work around the plants you want, laying the newspaper down on top of them could kill them.

  • 15 years ago

    Hello motherjan!
    Yes, I mulched like that too. First off the newspapers do not actually cover the perennials, it's put down between the plants. And I only put a little mulch over the perennial crowns - just a sprinkle to provide some shade for the roots. With this method I seldom have weeds (unless its a little ground ivy that has strayed from the lawn and into the garden beds and that is easily pulled off the mulch). One thing I found that with newspapers under mulch they break down in a season and then next year weeds may poke through the mulch again. So since I hate to do things more than once (like putting down a weed barrier under mulch) what I've been doing lately is finding garage sale bargains of landscape fabric or weed barrier cloth (or on sale at home stores). Since I started putting that down on new beds (then putting mulch on top) about 5 years ago, it is still going strong. All I have to do now and then is refresh the mulch when it gets so thin I can see the fabric. Not having to worry about weeds lets me do the really fun things in the garden. The added bonus is not having to water as much as the mulch keeps moisture in the soil. Good luck with your gardens and Happy New Year! :-)
    Kris
    P.S. When I want to add plants to the bed, I rake back some mulch, cut a big 'X' in the fabric, peel it back, plant the plant, then pull the mulch back up to near the plant. here's a pic of one of my mulched beds.

    {{gwi:258027}}

  • 15 years ago

    Motherjan...

    Have you heard of the late Ruth Stout? She mulched only with straw/hay, sometimes leaves...in her vegetable beds and on her perennials. People came from all around to see her gardens. Google her name to read more about her methods. Also, search this forum and google for "Lasagna/lasagne gardening"...it is much like this method. I just bought one of Ruth Stout's books from Amazon. A delightful read!

    Having said that, I would do just what your neighbor is recommending with caveat to put these items around your perennials, not right on top of them..newspapers and mulch, layers of it year after year will do wonders for your soil. No digging, tilling, etc.

    I started lasagna/e gardening last year and didn't start until the spring when folks really started cleaning out their beds of old "unattractive" mulch (hello????), and started cutting their first grass of the year. It was a gold mine of the perfect mulch mix. I spread newspapers, cardboard, etc, wet it down, and then put the OM (organic matter) on top. Those beds were WEED FREE except for very stubborn wild blackberries that found their way through cracks in the newspaper/cardboard. Plus, the paper/cardboard and other things are breaking down and enriching the soil and attracting earthworms.

    I dont' mean to be a naysayer for landscape fabric and I certainly understand the logic behind it, but it does nothing to help your plants in the long run.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ruth Stout

  • 15 years ago

    Thank you to all of you, but perhaps I misunderstood her. You all said to put the paper and mulch AROUND the perennials, but I thought she said to put it down BEFORE the plants actually come up. The way you say, it seems to me we would be constantly putting it down, as perennials all come up at different times of the season.

    Am I making any sense? (Duh!)

  • 15 years ago

    Pennymca - the Ruth Stout method is very effective (having used it for a many years in 2 veg beds at my last house and enjoyed good success, especially vine crops - HUGE pumpkins!). But as motherjan says, she is not in a position to do her own gardening anymore and would have to hire someone to do the work for her. Ruth Stout is very effective but IMHO it is an ongoing process, one I found more suitable for hands-on vegetable gardening and not something I would use in decorative flower/perennial beds as (to my mind)it can be rather untidy.

    Motherjan - as you say, you will be putting down compost (the perfect soil amendment) prior to any weed barrier you settle on (paper, fabric, cardboard, etc.) followed by any mulch you select (wood chips, bark, shredded leaves, or, --my favorite -- pine needles). And, probably like me, you'll topdress around your plants each fall or spring with more compost so your perennials will enjoy the benefits.

    Needless to say, I hope that whatever method you eventually decide upon, I wish you well (and weedless) with your gardening! :-)
    Kris

  • 15 years ago

    Kris, I think the thing that intriqued me most about the RS book was her description of some of her flower beds, with the straw covered with chopped leaves or other more "normal" looking mulch so it didn't look so untidy. Or maybe she suggested it for those who didn't want the "Scarecrow" look to their gardens. Don't have the book beside me right now...

  • 15 years ago

    I've used mulch very effectively for many years. Used to work it into the top 4-6 inches of the veggie garden every year but just added to the asparagus patch and flower beds. Saw how they did and so now not working much in at all. Unless I want to loosen where a row will be or run the sub soiler to loosen up deep. The sub soiler don't turn it over so don't disturb the worms and beneficial as much in my opinion. I learned about Ruth Stout just this last spring and have bought most of her books. Great reading. I was already using most of her methods. Have learned some new ways and then some of mine I like better. But with my experience most of my bulb type flowers come right through the mulch I use. i never use any paper. Every fall or winter I will add some compost, cottonseed meal, alfalfa pellets and sometimes some bone meal and then cover with a mulch. The flowers and asparagus do great. Never work the beds and don't have to do much work. Yes adding mulch can be a little work depending on what you use. But it is a one time deal every winter or spring then you are done. JD

  • 15 years ago

    Elkwc, I've only read one of her books..The No Work Garden Book. Are all of them along the same line? Will I pick up more nuggets of info in the other books that are not mentioned in the NWGB?

    I love the subtitle of Gardening With No Work...Gardening for the Aging, the Busy and the Indolent.

    I'm of the indolent variety, myself.

  • 15 years ago

    The landscape fabric is not that good if you have lots of weed. I weeded the front yard, put landscape fabric and 3 to 4" of Hemlock mulch on top of it and some of the weed came through at the end of summer. I should have put layer and layer of wet newspaper before I put the fabric down. It wouldn't have cost anything extra, newspaper is what we have lots of.
    Wished I came to Garden Web sooner.
    Otis

  • 15 years ago

    Read what Kimmsr wrote again. It's right on the mark. "The best mulch material to use is that which you can get at the least cost..."

    Check things out around you. It's amazing sometimes what you will see and find and get if you ask. All my leaves get blown away in the fall, but a mile down the road my neighbours will gladly give me their leaves. One neighbour has a nice stand of pine trees. He used to rake underneath them and throw out all the needles until I asked him for them. All I do is supply the garbage bags for them and go get the bags. My neighbours on the opposite side of the road use to complain about the seaweed washing up on their beaches but now they don't since I go get it for mulching particular beds and for my compost. I collect used coffee grounds on the way home every day. The owner of the establishment where I get them from cut his organic pick-up fee by 1/2 and is most pleased to see me.

    The following is mulch which I created with used coffee grounds (UCGs), pine needles, and shredded leaves.

    {{gwi:196913}}

    The following is a photo of the gardens where it was applied. I never had to weed this area the whole season. :O)
    {{gwi:196914}}

    Mind you, I weeded before placing the mulch and I don't do the newpaper things to snuff any weed seeds, but placing a good 3 inches of this mulch works well. If the plants were further apart or I was not introducing new plants to the gardens all the time, then I might be inclined to put newspaper down.

    I must agree with those who speak negatively of landscape/weed fabric. One experience in my parents' gardens showed me that it can be more of a pain than anything else. It provides no food value to the soil and will permit rhizomaceous weeds to creep underneath until they see a way out and by that time your problem is more than you'd like.

  • 15 years ago

    Motherjan, my guess is that your friend either reliably remembers where her plants are or that there is always enough above ground, even when dormant, that she can tell where her perrenials are. This is another reason to not cut dormant perrennials all the way down to ground level.

  • 15 years ago

    Tiffy, how thick is do you mulch? Thx.
    Otis

  • 15 years ago

    Otis,
    About 3 inches. Sometimes I go back and may add a bit more after a good rainfall and if time permits.