i do not grow them in my z5 .. as they are a z6 plant ...

considering we had a z4 winter .. its not surprising ....

watch and wait.. thats your only option ...

I'll be out there with you.. watching my p. thuns ... ken

I have about 25 seedlings of Abies nordmanniana that are all completely orange with perfect buds. Mine are 1/2 shock and 1/2 winter weather. We had severe coldness this year. I saw -40 to -50 for several days at a time and a week at a time twice where it was a minimum of -20. Ken's right, just wait.
I do however disagree with Ken about the hardiness of Sciadopity's. With careful placement they should be completely hardy in zone 5. Even the colorful ones. Dennis Dodge at Bethlehem, "Mr. Sciadopity's" told me so. And I was thinking the same thing too. ...You can just clip off any scarring or eventually they'll just naturally fall off.

Regards Guys,

Dax

By proper placement I mean:

Part shade and some protection ; not wet feet but attention to water.

Dax

Ken, I have the same problem with Abies. I gave up on them years ago, they hate my wet clay soil. However I can see from your pictures that you have no problem growing Abies.

Frank

ÂStarburst - 2001 with wind protection

{{gwi:640624}}

'Wintergreen' - 2007 with less wind protection

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Dax- Hi, did it really get that cold there? Where do you live?

ammcour- Where are you located in Ohio? What were your air temps like? I think sciadopitys are zone 5 hardy. I've seen some doing very well in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania in arboretums that are old enough to have come through the brutal winters of 1978, 1982, 1985, 1994. I've had a variegated one for quite a few years now and it looks very good. The yellow tissue usually gets some burn every winter but it does not disfigure anything and you would never notice anything once it flushes out in June. I also have had Ossorio gold and never had any burn in full winter sun. This year, I tried a few small ones like Gold Rush and Fireworks and I can only see a little tip burn on Fireworks. I've seen some burn pretty badly until established and regrowth seemed complete. I think they are tougher than given credit.

but the issue isnt whether umbrellas can live in z5 ... in a micro climate..

the issue is.. that we in my z5.. just had.. and are still in.. what was most probably a z4 or 3 winter ...

i dont really like to invest what little money i have in severe borderline plants.. because once every weather cycle.. 5 ... 10 .. 20 years... you are going to have that one winter that does them all in ...

i might get a z5 plant to make it through a z4 winter ... but i am not going to get a z6 plant through a 4 ... all that often ...

perhaps dendo has had luck ... perhaps he is right... but i can not send him money to prove that he is right ...

all i know.. is that i have visited just about every arb and tree farm for 100 miles... and until you start getting into z6 OH [due south of me] ... no one has mature umbrellas in z5 ...

but maybe i havent met that one gardener in z5 that has that perfect little micro climate for a z6 plant ...

if you cant tell.. i already lost $100 on umbrellas in my yard .. lesson learned.. just want to share the experience ...

and i think this winter will finish off my $50 experiment on cham laws.. thank god.. i think i will put them out of MY misery .... this spring ....

ken

Tree's planted in the Lima area.

"What were your air temps like?"

During the coldest parts, without windchill? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess around 0F to 13F. I don't think it ever got much below OF without windchill. Also, tree was mulched and had snow cover, so the root zone should've been fairly well insulated. If there was a problem with the roots (rot, freezing, whatever) I'd be seeing dieback from the bottom up and inside out, and not burn like in starterdude's second picture, I'm assuming?

"I've seen some burn pretty badly until established and regrowth seemed complete. I think they are tougher than given credit."

So, the new buds should grow out and replace the damaged needles, then?

I've heard that you can get some topical sprays that help prevent dessication from high winds. Would that be helpful for preventing this sort of thing in the future at all?

amccour- Hi. out of curiosity I went to weather.com and looked at your temps for the month of January in Lima. It looks like it was colder than you thought! :) Officially, Lima had one night at -16F, followed by -10F and -9F. There were about 3-5 other nights that hovered between 0 and -5F. That's only slightly colder than what we had here in Cleveland and a solid zone 5 winter, which we have not seen for 15 years.

If your umbrella pine was newly planted or under stress it is very likely it could have burned. I've seen them burn before, especially after a few winters similar to this in the 1980's. But, I promise you all the ones I saw burn in the 1980's refoliated. As I said before the yellow tissue always burns a bit on my variegated Sciadopitys, but it always pushes new growth and I swear I cant tell the difference by June. It does help to keep them out of strong winter wind and sun, but I would think that as they age and have a more developed root system they might tolerate cold a bit better. I do know that Sciadopitys do not like a lot of water and I know western Ohio was plagued with floods this summer so possibly the plant was under stress??? Good drainage, or planting on a slope is very imporant, from my own experience.

Yes there are some sprays out there (anti-dessicants), but I've never used them on conifers before, in that I've read it will often dull the color for the winter especially on anything blue. They work great on broadleaved evergreens like Magnolia and Holly and might add a few degrees of tolerance, but I don't know what the sprays are like on conifers? Sorry.

But to answer your question without rambling more, yes I would expect those small buds in the browned foliage to replace whatever is damaged. Sometimes I use my nails and I scratch just a VERY tiny bit of tissue off a stem to see if there is green underneath. If its green you should be good to go. Good luck.

Ken- I'm sure you are already aware of this, but there is no such thing as a zone4 winter in zone5. If you experience a zone4 winter, you are in zone4...

"Ken- I'm sure you are already aware of this, but there is no such thing as a zone4 winter in zone5. If you experience a zone4 winter, you are in zone4..."

Not really. The zone designation is based on an average (mean) of lows over many years. If the mean is within a certain range, -20 to -10F then you're in Zone 5.

But of course any given year can vary dramaitcally from the mean. I think all that Ken is saying is that it was a colder than average zone 5, perhaps more typical of zone 4.
One zone 4 winter doesnt not make you zone 4

I'm wondering if anyone might know how if there is by chance a certain Sciadopitys cultivar that is hardier than another. Obviously, I know there are some that dont have the discoloration of the species in winter. Most of the reading I've done has said that Sciadopitys is zone 5 hardy and I've seen some even claim it hardy to zone 4b. Does anyone know the limit of cold tolerance?

Judging from my own plant, the cultivars are less tolerant of cold winds. Normal, completely green, winter-bronzing, non-cultivar types should work better.

Bit of an update. The non-dead needles are starting to green up again. The deader needles are getting shed. Plant, as a whole, looks alive. Buds around the healthier needles look fine. Not as sure about the ones on the branches with more dead needles on them. In any case, it looks like it's getting better or at the least not getting worse. I am concerned about lopsided growth, though, as the left side was more exposed and looks to be the more damaged side.