Elisa, when you get room measurements and appliances drawn to scale on graph paper, you will be able to play around with the spaces by moving the stove, refrig, etc. Then it will be easier to visualize. I usually make three copies of the floor plan only, and three copies of the "stuff in the room" to play with. If you are computer savvy, you can do it that way.
Definitely hire a contractor. As I mentioned in an earlier post, if engineered I-beam(s) are installed, you will not need support columns in the space. The beams will rest on the top of the walls and can support much heavier loads that regular I-beams ever could.
Echoing what others have been suggesting...
If you move the door to the basement to the space where the open door is in the second photo, you will need to build a landing, and reposition the outside door. That maybe easier than reorienting the whole staircase...or not. Ask your contractor.
In my opinion, taking out all that tile will be an unecessary expense if is in good condition. It can be covered with washable rugs with rubber backing/rubber mats to soften it underfoot and to preserve your husband's sensibilities. If your final floor plan is quite different from the tile installation, you will need to remove it then, of course.
Safety: I am pretty sure that your electrical wiring should be inspected and updated, and the outlets replaced with safer ones. The name is escaping me now - ground fault? The kind with a reset switch. With a gas stove, it seems a range hood would be required by code these days.
Thinking of you and yours, tipi.

Here is my two cents worth - not inexpensive. If the right side (on your drawing) wall is an outside one, I would put a window there and trade positions for the existing door and window. That would give you a lovely spot for a corner eating booth/area. Then I would take out the wall between the dining room and kitchen and put in an island with your stove top. Definitely I beams.

I had a kitchen similar to yours, and you do have quite a job ahead of you. I'll give you my top ten things I would consider to bring this kitchen up to date without breaking the bank and making major structural changes.

1. Start by asking yourself the look you're going for. If it's retro, there's a lot you can do with some of your existing accents. If not, you'll have to rethink your direction. I feel strongly that the look you decide on should be something you love - don't worry about reselling your house, etc., BUT keep mind that not everyone appreciates retro, or ultra modern, or lodge, etc, etc .........so consider your final design before plunging into your renovation.

2. Can you afford to gut the whole thing??? That's your best option, because sometimes its easier & cheaper to start fresh than retrofitting. I'm all for keeping the feel of the house consistent, i.e. if it's a bungalo/cottage, keep the same feel in the kitchen, so it integrates with the rest of the house.

3. I would start by removing the tile on the wall, paneling, flooring, moulding around the doors.

4. If your cabs are in good condition, keep those, and add new to compliment your current cabs; add cabs above the stove for additional storage, the micro, and to balance out the other side of the room.

5. Update counterops.

6. Arch: I love arches, but this one is a bit oversized. You should be able to keep the arch and restructure to something smaller; this will open the space up quite a bit.

7. Replace window over the sink with a garden window; this will add dimension and they're really pretty.

8. Remove the door from the hall to the kitchen; unless you use it all the time. For me, it just gets in the way.

9. Update lighting; overhead, under cabs, above the sink, etc.

10. A built in bench with table and chairs might work better in the nook.


You know your space better than me, and a pro can tell you about structural walls, electrical etc. If you can remove fridge from the nook and into the kitchen area, that would be great. If it's a huge expense keep where it is and work around it.

Look at lots of pictures on line, and see how they would work within your parameters.

Send your finished pictures to us so we can see what a great job you did!!!!

If you are planning on doing a lot of this yourself, some of the kitchen centers have designers to help even if you install. Lowe's even has someone and they used to have appropriate software. I would call and explore options with your local kitchen centers since you are doing a large job. You still may be able to buy cabinets one place and counter tops another to get the best price - we do that all the time.

looks like it is a portable dishwasher, meaning that when you use it you have to hook it up to the sink then un hook when you are done. i would rather have no dishwasher at all if that was my option. i would look into removing the arch wall for sure, galley kitchens are the most efficient kitchens in my opinion. having a kitchen expert help you will be well worth the money and many kitchen centers have them as part of the package so there is no additional cost. my best advice having had over 16 houses in the last fifteen years is go classic classic classic. stay away from trends. do not spend money on extra trim or gadgets that you wont really use anyway. quartz counters are great, spend a little extra bulking up the trim so they look beefy, a big single bowl sink and spend money on a good faucet, it is the most used appliance in the kitchen! take your time, better to live with ugly for a bit then jump the gun and not love what you did but too late cause the money be spent!!

What a lovely light space - often galley kitchens suffer from a lack of natural light, but you definitely don't have that problem! I love jigsaw puzzle challenges like this.

Do you see yourselves eating most meals here, or is it just for breakfast? How does your family use the kitchen - is it used as a living area too? For example does homework happen on the kitchen table?

What would be the key things you would like to have in the kitchen? Is there anything (apart from the locations of stove and sink) that you are planning to keep?

What are the views like from all of windows, are there any privacy issues we need to know about?

I see your idea, the archway needs to go if it's not a load bearing wall, that would open up the whole space and make your kitchen look bigger.

I see your idea, the archway needs to go if it's not a load bearing wall, that would open up the whole space and make your kitchen look bigger.

You could move the refrigerator down (closer to the sink and add pantry storage to the end of that wall. One of my favorite things to do in a kitchen design is to put the refrigerator in the middle of two smaller pantries (15" to 18" pantries are a good size to work with) and put a full depth short cabinet over the refrigerator for a built in look. This does cut down on the usable countertop area but it gives you back some valuable storage and it looks good too. I would try not to put the refrigerator on the wall with the stove. Depending on the dimensions for this space it could be to crowded for both appliances. Generally I like to allow at least 15" on each side of a stove for work space and landing areas. It's also a safety feature so people don't come around a corner to fast and bump into a hot surface. Refrigerators and stoves are fairly deep (30" to 33") so any cabinet set in between them will get lost. Also, I am not sure what you mean when you say you want to change the orientation of the basement stairs. Are you looking to change the location of the opening to the basement? I think removing the door to the living room is a good idea. This will help open up the space and bring in light however I would suggest leaving the door to the basement in place just for safety. When you get a chance post the dimensions of the space. I can give you a better idea on how to use the space once I have them.

Just a thought: have you thought about doing built in banquet seating around the table area. This could would give you great storage and looks great too.

Linda, absolutely! I'm not dealing with a portable/movable dishwasher! lol

Larry, I don't know. I would love to move the door to the basement, but then we need to rebuild the stairs going down. More work and more money...

jokirby, I actually prefer to have walls. I'm not big on open floor plans.

Tipi, hi again! Yes, the inspector mentioned that we need ground electrical something. It's all old outlets that will need to be replaced or updated. We do have an electrician in the family who will take care of that. :)

gkids, I'm not sure if you are referring to the wall where the table is, but that wall is not going outside, there is a closed in porch there (another big project).

Maggie, thanks! I'm thinking traditional is more my style, definitely not retro. I'm not sure about keeping these cabinets, I need to look at them closely to see if we can save them at all. I rather no gut the place even if here and there it seems like the best option. Thanks for all your great points. :)

Carolina, thanks for the suggestion (I didn't know)

Dalaja, thanks for the great pointers. We're definitely not keeping a portable dishwasher, but I would like a built-in one. Good point on the faucet. I will keep it in mind.

Gingerclaire, thanks for your nice words. I did like this kitchen as soon as I saw it, even if I knew I would change it all around. There is a lot of light, and no privacy issues, I don't think. The windows by the table are to the backyard. The windows on top of the sink should be safe as well, but I can't be completely sure, I will have to check, but since the house next to ours is just like ours, then those windows should face their living room?
Yes, we would eat all meals here. No homework yet, but I'm guessing yes for those too. I really would love a cute eating area. I will try to envision our time here and see if anything new or different comes to mind.

The biggest issue I see in the kitchen presently is that the location of your range is dangerous without countertop to the left. A pot handle left extended from the front left burner could flip hot grease on an unsuspecting person or more likely child entering the room. In most US locations this is against building code and certainly a bad design feature. Without the entire first floor floor plan I can't tell what could be possible, but the cost of the cabinetry, appliances, flooring, backsplash, and contractor's labor add up to so much in a kitchen renovation that changing the locations of doorways or appliances is pretty much insignificant if it improves the design.

Could the location of the door to the dining room be moved to where the range is and the range slide right? That would have all the traffic flow in the kitchen utilizing the same space. Of course the range would need cabinets and countertop on both sides if it were you able to move it down.

Denise, thanks. The fridge look you mention is my favorite, too. I like the slide out cabinets. If I could eliminate completely that side part of the arch I could bring the fridge up closer to the sink and I would be ok with that design. I also agree with you on having space on both side of a stove. And thanks for mentioning the safety issue. A lot of people suggested moving the door to the basement to the other wall, and while I think it's a great idea, I also think it's too much work. But I'm pretty sure we will get rid of the other doors, not the basement one, of course (no door in front of steps, not a good idea). And yes, I totally love the bench look around the table. We'll see. Thanks again and I will post measurements as soon as they let me in the house next.

WHOO! LOTS OF IDEAS! I renovated a galley kitchen that was from the 1950's and it was so hard we scrapped EVERYTHING, knocked down the walls to open it up to the living room where we could and moved it to face the fireplace. So--barring that radical thing--here's my take:

Galley kitchens are lonely. OPEN UP the wall to the living room (stove area)and have your lower cabinets and breakfast bar there with a cooktop right where your appliances are now. I'd move everything DOWN to the eat nook and have the space kitchen with a view and breakfast bar. YES, you'll need a header and that can cost but you will get RID of the galley and the doors!

There is just No way to open up and modernize an old galley without that. It is totally worth the change BECAUSE then you have a free hand designing instead of trying (in vain) to change it around to fit what modern open kitchens cannot fit into!!!

It is not that expensive to take down the arches and walls with competent carpenters. BE SURE they are good. Paying more for a good builder is worth it as i went thru FOUR contractors before i found one who really WAS good. He was the MOST expensive but he had to FIX what the other 'licensed' guys did a terrible job on. So ask around for GOOD, respected builders. If they have really good reps and integrity--some are not even licensed as they are not good at test taking. BUT if they have a GREAT rep--do the owner/contractor remodel!

That's my experience!
aloha

MLKD, you make a very good point, and having a 3 year old I don't even want to think about accidents like the one you mention. I've tought about sliding the door to the dining room closer to the door to the living room and pushing the stove there. The one issue I see will be in the dining room, where the new door would be kind of close to the other door in that room that also goes in the living room. I hope this is somewhat clear, but in any case, what are the general rules about having doors on adjacent walls? Should they be on opposite corners or at least far enough, or it doesn't matter? Thanks again for taking the time to read my dilemma.

Stara, I'm not sure i understand. You're saying leave the stove/cooktop where it is, and move the sink to the back close to the fridge? Also, have the breakfast bar by the stove? There isn't all that room to do that, unless you're saying having the breakfast bar on the side of the dining room, which means I'll lose the dining room... what about where the sink is now? What goes there, nothing? Thanks for your ideas. :)

Hmm--what room is directly behind the stove? DR or LR? i assumed LR. I would open up that wall, lose the arch and have no need for all the doors.

I has the SAME problem with two doors that almost swung into each other. We just took the whole wall down and kept the plumbing where it was and hooked up our new sink there. I found out later it isn't really expensive to move it. The electric to the old stove now could stay there in the island for a cooktop or a slide in stove/oven.

Where the stove is now could be an island bfast bar with cooktop on the kitchen side. The wall would be gone and you would either be part of the LR or DR. Most new kitchens today are open to the dining room so this wouldn't be a problem unless you wanted a seperate formal dining area. If the wall is a support wall you'll need headers and perhaps a post at one end of the island--it all depends.

I would take advantage of the home stores kitchen programs to play with different models until you get a good cooks triangle and a happy place to eat. The fridg way at the end of the kitchen is a hassle!

When I said you could 'move it all down', I meant that you could remove the arch and have the island there as a bfast counter pass thru into the DR and enjoy the light from the windows too.

Hi Elisa,
As far as the doors go. That's exactly what you want -is to keep all your doors in a home opening into common space. Where ever you need to walk to get from one doorway to any other is considered "travel space" in your home. The mark of a well designed home is a low percentage of travel space.

So if in back of the range is the dinning room, it is a good thing to put the doorway there and move the range down. You are reducing travel space in your home and only people eating and working in the kitchen will be walking through it. Having done this for 30 years, I will tell you that it is a no brainer and the most important, least expensive, and most dramatic change that you can make in this space.

Go to a kitchen design firm in your area, or call around and find the most experienced kitchen designer at a home center close enough near you to be able to reach but not necessarily the one around the block. Look for a designer that seems knowledgeable first and close to you second. That persons help should prove invaluable.

Here is a link to one of our blogs that you might find interesting:

http://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/general/you-have-to-see-our-new-kitchen/

Hi Elisa,
Congrats on your new home! How exciting. I know you have had a lot of wonderful, experienced responses. I wanted to add a couple of things to think about that I see from a little bit different perspective. The first thing that threw me off was the basement door does not open fully. Can you even fit through that space carrying something such as a laundry basket or large box? If not, I would consider removing that cabinet. The stove seems to be in an odd place. Anyone coming in from the back door or basement will have to wait or you will have to close the oven door to let them by. The kitchen is hard to gate off from a busy toddler. If you have a lot of company and the gathering place is often the kitchen while you cook, it's awkward, people don't have a place to go that won't be in your way. Personally, I would move the kitchen to where the breakfast nook is. It would be small yes but more practical on many scales and easier to work with the triangle. The existing layout does not make sense for a busy growing family. I kind of like the arch, it gives character to a home. Whatever you decide to do in your new home, I would love to see posted after pics! Good luck :)

random thots...

do we need the door to the living room?....could the space be an alcove with a fridge in it?

with cabinets above the stove and a pass thru to dining room....

then you could center the stove on its wall--you could even get a 24" stove to make more room--and place cabinets with drawers on either side of the stove... lots of storage for pots and pans....

or.... you could take out that shallow storage closet.... put the door to the dining room there.... then you'd have a nice long stretch for your galley kitchen

do you need doors in all the doorways? will you use them? could you take some of them out?

tall narrow fridge--mine has a 24" x 24" footprint and i love it (fagor)-- to the left of the sink... that going into a different room to get something out of the fridge is gonna get old fast....

and if money were no object.... a clean-up area/butlers pantry on the wall where the fridge is now... put a dishwasher and a double sink and drainboard here with dish storage above... you might even have room for a pullout pantry on the side

and wouldn't it be nice if those windows were french doors opening onto a patio...

anyway, take the damn paneling down, you'll feel better immediately

you could almost make that floor work with the right color scheme

i love the red formica, it's so retro, i think grandma had it in her kitchen

i thot the arch was adorable, but then when you pointed out how low it was....yikes! gotta go

I think I would be inclined to agree with Stara (if I've understood correctly). I definitely agree that getting rid of the arch supports would make the area much easier to work with, and would link the two areas better.

Looking at the shape of your kitchen, I also think it might work better if you swapped the seating area with the cooking area. Although it would make quite a compact kitchen, you would no longer be preparing food in the thoroughfare between the living room and dining room, and it would be much easier to achieve the working triangle between the sink, the cooker and the fridge. If you raised the sill height of the left hand window, it would allow you to run a work surface around, and would give you a nice view for doing your washing up. It would also make it easier to put your stove against an outside wall, making the problem of extraction much easier to solve.

A bench set kitchen table would enable you to have it against the wall for breakfast if people are eating at different times giving you more space to get past, and pull it out when the whole family is sitting down to eat together.

I have produced a super high tech visualisation for you so you can see what I mean.

Stara, I see now. But yes that is the dining room on the side of the stove and I would like to keep it on its own. I've thought about about an island, but I think the space is too small. Thanks again for your comments.

MLKD... Hi Paul! I had no idea about doors and the travel space, it makes sense! I'm thinking that will be something we will do for sure, then. Thank you so much and I'm sorry you're in PA. We are in NY. I will post "after" pictures for sure. You all deserve them! :)

Melody, thanks for your input! I have been thinking about moving everything to the back as one of the possible solutions, the only deterrent being the fact that it could be the more expensive option. We'll see...

Cocinera, great thoughts!! All of them really. It would be nice to implement them, thing is which ones? Sometimes it's worse to have too many options available.

You make me think about the door to the dining room. Do I want it? Yes. Do I need it? I don't know. I think so. But then if we put a little opening, maybe?

We will be taking the doors out, yes.

The paneling is going, the arch gotta get a bit bigger. But I'm sorry, the red formica, you can come and get it, I'll give it to you happily! lol Thanks again. Elisa

Gingerclaire I agree that this might be the best solution with only two drawbacks:

1. it's probably the most expensive to do and

2. I'm not sure how I feel having just the table up here and nothing else. Maybe a pantry?

But also I don't know if I like the fact that the kitchen table is now on the same area of the dining room table (they can see each other through the door). But again, I have no clue when it comes to design, so that might be a favorable thing instead of an issue.

I loved LOVED your incredibly technologically advanced design! And you know what? Much easier to read than those fancy pants floor plans that take me a few minutes to figure out even where the front door is! lol

I have measurements!!! Not the keys yet (this Thursday). Here is an updated pic, if it helps. I'm thinking of leaving everything as is, meaning the fridge, the stove and the sink. The stove flanked by 18" cabinets. The fridge flanked by cabinets. The only issue is the sink not having much counter space. I'll also try to open up the arch. And have a bench and two chairs in the nook. Any and all suggestions are so much appreciated! Thanks!!!

This is a challenge! Here is a website that has loads of information about mid-century kitchens and houses. http://retrorenovation.com/category/kitchen/ These old kitchens aren’t everyone's taste, but these houses have some features that are fun and interesting, and the website might give you some ideas to keep the best of what you have. One thing I like about old kitchens is that there is a sense of fun and whimsy about them.

I would try to keep the unusual peaked doorframes, the panel doors, the window framing and the great countertops with the metal edges and the sink. They look like they are in great shape and that style of counter is coming back in style. I see you hate the color--If you replace, consider going with retro Formica with metal edges, or a thin fabricated Formica countertop in a soapstone finish. The link I gave has info on how to order and fabricate counters with metal edges. IKEA has a white on one side and silvery gray on the other side countertop that might work too.

I like the arch, but it does close things off. It may be possible to keep the arch but raise it up and move it out, and make the counter continuous. I would consider putting a shelf up there on both sides for decorative and seldom used items for a bit more storage. You don’t have any above counter storage at all! Maybe a shelf along that big window above the sink would help too. I put a wire rack in above mine and keep the glasses there—convenient and looks quite pretty.

I just realized that I have the same ballet slipper pink tile as you have! You got a lot of it too--all the way to the ceiling. Consider keeping it for the retro vibe-- that old tile has nice hairline joints and is easy to clean, and my contractors comment on the craftsmanship all the time. They just don’t do that now—perfect corners and alignment. I have similar tile in the bathrooms The color was considered flattering to the complexion, and was popular from the late 20’s to the early 60’s. I find it goes well with most greens, grays and creams, or you could go aqua to turquoise, or terra cotta and burnt orange and blues. It looks different depending on what you put with it.

One thing we did with my kitchen is that we switched the oven and fridge, and it did make the layout better and put the stove near the sink, which works better for prepping veggies and stuff. My husband was able to just move the electric line, but it looks like you have gas. I just hate a stove all by itself and away from the sink. If you move it, you could vent it to the outside very easily, a big plus in these old, poorly ventilated kitchens.

The windows would be close, but I would put shutters on the bottom part or even leave them uncovered (does one have an air conditioner or are they different sizes?) and put a bit of counter on each side of the stove. I would also consider getting a French door or side-by-side fridge so it doesn't block flow when the doors are opened. In the sketch, I put small cabinets or possibly built-in pantries or shelving built all the way around the fridge--can look nice. I also put upper cabinets and ventilation above the new stove area so you have a place for the dishes and cooking stuff.

I would consider rounding the corner of the cabinet by the sink--open shelves like that were popular then, and it looks like the basement door doesn't open all the way. Cutting the corner may help a bit, and some more of the chrome edging would look nice.

I think your inspector was referring to GFCI (Global Fault Circuit Interrupter) outlets. The easiest way to do it is to replace the circuit breaker for the lines for the kitchen in the panel, or you can buy a new one and replace at the beginning of each circuit in the kitchen. It isn’t hard to do and is safer, especially for the ones near water. The bathrooms need them too. With a major remodel, you would want an electrician to look things over for you.

Victorianbungalowranch, thank you so much for taking the time to write this much, and updating my chart! :) I've visited the retrorenovation website and I have to say that there are some beautiful ideas there. But I don't think I'm a retro kind of girl. I like it and I don't. I'll show you a few pictures of my dream kitchens, so you understand how far I am from retro (also I think it has to do with growing up in Italy where there was no retro in the 70s and so I don't have any sentimental attachment to it). I also like your idea of switching the stove with the fridge. I need to see how much trouble would that be. Thanks again! Elisa

I lived in Germany for many years and open plan is definately not the norm there. I think retro and Euro modern go well together though.

I like traditional white kitchens too. Can't see the rest of the house, but it looks like it has a bit of a colonial influence. Simple white or creamy paneled doors are classic, and work in a lot of settings. It would evend work the existing moldings and that funky flooring. So would the sink. You could even maybe keep the existing tile, or go with something simple, like subway tile.

I would try to keep some of the older vibe with the new stuff and not go too heavy with the marble or stone backsplashes and Tuscan look so it harmonizes with the rest of the house. Fancy is nice, but can overwelm a space like this, and the simplier and lighter versions will make it look bigger too.

I grew up in a 60's plain Jane tract house (no nostalgia there), a Tudor revival with red countertops like you have, and a couple of remuddled Victorians with some horrible kitchens. My grandmother had an early 60s custom ranch, and it took me a long time to appreciate that period aethetic. Mad Men and 50 years has sort of brought it back.

Must have been wonderful to grow up in Italy. Such a beautiful place.

You have so many wonderful and wise suggestions - may I simply encourage you to enjoy the adventure - take many a photo of before and after and then go to shutterfly and make a photo book to remember the project journey -

Or create a youtube fast motion short like this one:

Victorianbungalowranch, thanks again for your advice. Maybe you're right and I should stay away from too much Tuscan style. And I love Mad Men too! :)

Does anybody know if it's ok if I post a link to my new blog about this journey? I've decided to put in writing all of my ideas and clueless design doubts, more than anything to help me process all this information and let some steam out. Also, on the blog I can post a million pictures!

Quick update: We're in the house, doing all kind of fixing up stuff before we move in next month. Husband decided (well I told him) to start with bathroom, so he's demolished it and I'm guessing it's halfway done. He also told me we should wait on the kitchen and work on it after we move in. I don't like that idea. So today we had some family over helping out with the demolishing and I started taking down the paneling in the kitchen which also resulted in tiles coming down and wall paper removed. Basically we turned the kitchen into a mess, and it looks like we might have to start working on it now, too. ;)

I still have to decide what to do with it. I love how all the people that have been in it take a good look at it, and have a hard time giving an opinion about what to do with it. They all stumble.
I've spent a good time in it, trying to get a feel for it, waiting for that inspiration to hit me, but so far nothing much. I do feel I want to move the stove from where it is. It just doesn't feel right.

Other than that, I'm still where I was 8 weeks ago. But I know it will come together eventually (hopefully before our moving date).

To take out frustration (and to save a record of all the hard work for the future) I'm writing about it, not much there yet, but I will keep updating it: http://colonialonabudget.blogspot.com/
I will continue to keep you posted. Elisa

More update: this is what's behind the arch: pipes, pipes and more pipes! It's not a question of a supporting wall anymore, it's now more about is there anything we can do to at least raise the arch a little bit???

A first plumber said it's going to be expensive, but didn't really go into details (he's the plumber working in the bathroom right now, and he tells me "Elisa, one thing at a time").
I would like to know now! So I called another plumber and he will come to look at it tomorrow. We'll see. Some people tell me to do whatever it takes to raise the arch. I worry that it's going to be too much money and for too little gained...

What do you guys think?

From what I've been told, the big pipe is the waste line coming down from the bathroom around the arch and down into the basement. The neighbors have the same house but in their kitchen this big pipe doesn't turn and it goes straight down to the floor, so they have half a wall there and a door to the other side of the kitchen (where my nook is). I don't think I like that design better than mine, anyway.

There is also another pipe that goes into the ceiling diagonally from the waste pipe, and I'm not sure what this is, maybe the vent for the waste???

On the side where the arch comes down and touches the counter you see more pipes, these are vents from the sink in the basement and from the sink here in the kitchen.

From what you can tell, and if you need more pictures check out my blog http://colonialonabudget.blogspot.com/ (you can even look at the bathroom posts where you see the exposed pipes to make any pipe connections), is this job worth it?

How much can I raise that pipe by? Four inches? Is it going to cost $2,000????

Any comments or observations will be sooo appreciated!

Thanks again and I will continue to keep you posted.

Elisa

Oh my goodness, you did go to town! I would not move children into a house in that state--too dangerous for safety and for potential lead and other toxic exposure.

I would say it is far too complicated and totally not worth it to move the piping. It looks like you can widen the arch a bit on the exterior wall side and that might be worth it so you have a partial continuous counter and put the oven in the nook as I suggested earlier. If you want to move it, you have few other options and it can be vented outside there.

Other Options:

1) Put the kitchen in the nook with a prep sink by the existing piping, keep the big sink for the pots and pans and dishes, and have a small informal counter area for snacks, and use the dining room for family meals.

2) Open the wall between the kichen and the dining room and expand there, or put in a pass through and a counter there. on the dining room side. This may mean sacrificing the dining room to have a larger kitchen, depending on the house layout

3) Close off the nook and add doors to make it the new dining room, or study as part of Option 2, or reduce the width of the opening.

Seeing the house floorplan and some photos would give us a better idea of what options make sense. But moving that much plumbing is going to be very expensive for limited benefit, and who knows what can of worms doing so will open.

Hello! I'm here to update you with some pictures, but we are sooo not done yet!

Thanks for all your help!

Can't wait to see the finished project!

Don't bother with raising the arch--the benefit is not worth the cost. It would be worth it to knock down the wall between the kitchen and dining room, and use an island in lieu of another run of cabinets. I strongly recommend an induction cooktop or range--it is much safer, more efficient, and responsive than gas--and much healther, as there is no gas particulate hanging around in the house.

Looks terrific. Check out Ballard designs web site, they offer premade banquettes that are really cool and might fit perfectly into your kitchen dining nook. I have taken on many house renovations over the years and though it is disruptive it is so rewarding in he end. Best of luck.

I think that raising the height of the arch has made a noticeable improvement to the openness of you kitchen. Well done so far, it's going to be worth it when you have a kitchen that works better for you and your family. Hang in there!

Thanks for the words of encouragement. This kitchen is taking much longer than expected, and now we are living in the house and I'm about ready to scream if we don't finish it soon... We've been doing a lot of work ourselves, so that is the price to pay. Plus we work, come back home tired and we don't get a lot done until the weekends anyway. I'm hoping once I finish spackling and painting we can move ahead faster...