Carolyn,

I did some research on Sucrin de tours on several french seed sites. They all describe it as heavily roped, with very sweet, firm, red flesh. They also describe it a early, which would make sense as it comes from the Loire Valley which has a shorter, cooler season. Curious that it doesn't seem to be that early. Maybe it needs a little more time?

Natasja

Blacktail is pretty productive. On average (based on previous years) I've stopped at 4 melons on the vine. But that is also because I have to count days. :) I cut anything that isn't going to mature before it gets to cold outside.

This is my first year growing Golden Midget. This year I'm going to pretty much let them do what ever they want and just take notes.

I bought my Sucrin de tours seeds for next year from the same source as Carolyn. I'm going to wait for her next one before I start biting my lip and wondering about the seed source. Her melon isn't matching what I've read. If need be, I'll start looking for another seed source in the fall.

Bill - go over to Carolyn's and take some pictures. ;)

Thanks for the watermelon advice. I have 4 blacktail vines. Maybe on 2 vines i'll limit to 4 or 5, and let the other 2 carry what sets. There are 6 on one vine. I am really looking forward to the blacktail as i have heard a lot about it. The only new big melon i am growing this year is orangeglo.

There a couple reliable french seed sources, maybe i'll order some sucrin de tours from them and we can do a comparason next year. My petit gris de rennes, d'algiers, noir de carmes and charantais have all come from them and have been very good seed.

I'm not a big watermelon eater. But I sure love growing them! Most of my watermelons go to friends and neighbors. They seem to enjoy eating them as much as I enjoy growing them. The first time I cut open an Orangeglo, I was having a barbecue and one of the guests had been wandering the garden. He came back and told me one of my watermelons was ripe. The color was simply perfect. Guests were amazed at the color. I travel with easy to amaze people. Keeps me...amazing. ;)

The white seeds made people think it wasn't ripe yet. The melons are refreshingly sweet and IMO have more of a tropical taste. The taste is defiantly different from reds. You're in for a treat.

I can't say enough good things about Blacktail. I only eat a few slices of watermelon a year and it is the one. This year there won't be many extra watermelons to pass out. I didn't pay attention to how many seeds I gave out. So I'm growing out Blacktail for seed. My friends have already proven they can't be trusted to bring me the seeds. :) I think I'm going to have to make a rule. Friends can only get seeds for an heirloom variety from me once. After that, they need to save their own seeds.

Natasja,

You seem to have said the magic word about Sucrin de Tours ripening early: Between morning and evening, two melons underwent a very dramatic color change to deep creamy orange with tan spots, under the ropy netting. They don't seem ready to slip at the stem attachment, though. I'll try leaving them on the vine to see if the color of the flesh changes. This one will be interesting to watch. If the flesh of intact melons doesn't turn red, at least we may have a melon that has some characteristics of SdT on the outside, per your research. I planted some in May and June, too. So there will be additional chances to evaluate it.

An additional Ananas melon changed color today. I covered it carefully so P. would not be alarmed at its dramatic color and pick it prematurely. Maybe I will get one which is closer in flavor to the ones you grow.

Reign,

I counted my list and found that I planted 30 varieties of melons on April 27, some just a couple of seeds. They just fit so nicely in those Root Trainers. Couldn't leave empty sleeves. Think I lost 3 or 4 varieties. This is probably the last year I will have so much space (we'll be building on our second lot). So, I decided to have a "year of the melon". Planted practically all the varieties of seed I have accumulated over the past few years (I'm a big sucker for seed catalogs). Plus, there are P.'s volunteers.

The alternative for our hot summers was a "year of the corn", to which I am allergic. I repeated melon planting with eight varieties on May 28, eight on June 27, nine on July 7 and four on July 20 - cleared out seed packets with just a couple of seeds. My seed file is getting so confusing. The last three plantings are a real gamble in these parts - with the whiteflies, spider mites, aphids, thrips, the weather, and also with the spraying of cotton defoliant in October in the cotton fields. This sometimes affects our plants directly and always means a mass immigration of insects into the garden.

I also have Winter Melons (the Asian gourd), planted kind of late. The vines are very slow to start, but once they do, watch out. They're blooming now. Big pastel yellow-orange blossoms. There are 3 or 4 watermelon varieties out there, too.

A little Crane melon (the heirloom Crenshaw type which Sweet Freckles is advertised as surpassing) slipped today. It had a nice, tender texture and was sweet, but seemed a little bland and watery. From the same over-watered row as the Sweet Freckles which popped before it was ripe. It is different from a regular Crenshaw in flavor and texture. Some of the freckles had turned yellow-orange, just as they are supposed to do on a ripe SF. Has light netting, unlike SF. I also picked two Savor hybrid Charentais, slightly cracked, and a classic Charentais - my first uncracked Charentais type. Breakfast. And 5 little watermelons.

Bill's welcome to come by to try some melons the next time he goes to Visalia. But I hope he's not expecting an orderly, picturesque garden. Ours is pretty jumbled.

I'm dyin' to try an orangeglo! Reign, about how long from transplant to maturity for your orangeglo?

And Carolyn, what are Root Trainers?

Carolyn,

First, I am impressed by your sheer industriousness, planting and trialing so many melons. You know what does well in your area, and it's helpful for others who lurk here but don't post.

Second,thanks for the invite to trial the melons. But I'm not going to Visalia or Bakersfield (where I have relatives) anytime soon. I always wait till winter to see them. I'm wilting in this unseasonably warm So. Cal heat wave (95 deg) and would probably be useless in the Central Valley where 95 is average in the summer!

Third, I am sorry you are sensitive to the ketones in French Orange (are there aldehydes in melons?). Loving the aroma for me is a big plus in food, but the reverse (hating the aroma) really takes the joy out of it. Your situation reminds me of the Durian fruit controversy in Asia where the pineapply/leathery aroma is either loved or hated. But the Charentais -Western muskmelon hybrids are a favorite of mine. There was Orange Blossom at one time. Now, there is the "Tuscan" melon that sells for $2-$4 or so a piece. It's supposed to be twice as sweet as the other muskmelons as reported in a trial. (Of course, they probably used their sweetest melons in a batch, and took the blandest in store muskmelons, LOL). The Tuscan is supposed to be the "Red Moon" variety, but it sure tastes like a cross between charentais and a western (a la Hales Best) melon.
Savor, vedrantais, and charentais are similar in taste, though I believe there are external differences in skin color and size.

Ananas is well known at the farmers markets and is a favorite. I might see what they have today that I'm not growing.

As far as Haogen, the fruit will be a green and gold color when ripe. The aroma might be overwhelming for you. You can smell the melon 10' away. MY brother (who is not a huge melon fan) had to wrap a bagful in blankets when he drove them to my parents. He said the aroma in a van was too much!

And thanks again for the reports. I love reading them and the opinions of you and your husband in the taste arena.

Green (and Ann (spacific)),

Of course I remember you. I am glad your Charentais are doing well. This current heat wave we're having in late July will really help the melons grow and the fruit sweeten up. Mine in Costa Mesa always takes about 80-85 days from seed to fruit. They get from grapefruit to regular melon size, but just hold back on the water as the color lightens up. If your soil is rich and soft, in full sun, and healthy, your melons should taste great.

Regarding the French Orange hybrid charentais. I wrote this in the veggie forum, but thought I would mention it here. I planted this along with one watermelon (Blacktail Mountain). Both are taking over the garden but the French Orange refuses to produce ANY female flowers. It has been this way for well over 2 weeks. The Blacktail Mountain on the other hand is producing tons of females and males. I don't think I will be planting French Orange again after this year.

Jamie

Jamie -
Some melons produce a ton of male flowers before they even lay out one female. It is sort of normal. One good thing about there being a lot of male flowers for a bit (IMO) is that it gets pollinators excited and use to visiting the plants. When that female shows up...it is tortoise on kumato time in the old melon patch. ;)

Blacktail puts out females early, fast and often. As a matter of fact, I was getting worried this year when I had weeks of females and no male on Blacktail.

Don't compare the two. Hang in there and try not to worry. :)

Natasja,

How long for orangeglo from transplant? About 90 days here. I have had mixed results with orangeglo. When the melon was 25 pounds it was scrumptous. When too many sat on at once or wharever and it was under 22 pounds, it did not flavor up for me.

Bill,

I don't blame you for not traveling to the Central Valley now, even for melons. Our average highs over the last couple of weeks have been closer to 105 than 95, with some humidity at times, too. And over-heated or burning vehicles aren't the nicest scenery on the Grapevine. But watch for the fog and other traveling hazards in winter, too. Fall and spring can be nice in the Valley, and winter is so nice in So. Cal. Why leave then? Consider making the trek over the Grapevine when the poppies are blooming.

I don't really know if melons contain aldehydes. I kind of categorize aldehydes and ketones together in my mind as aromatic compounds, and I think they are often found together in nature. Vanillin is an aldehyde, and I am very sensitive to it now, though less so than a year ago, when even a whiff was really hard to take. We'll have to see if the fragrance of Ha Ogen is one of the ones that overwhelms me now. Something out there in the melon patch was fragrant this evening, whether it was Ha Ogen, PFB or something else. Smelled nice, even to me.

The Crenshaws don't exude much perfume, but they have a distinctive flavor. They taste very close to how I remember them before my sense of smell got tuned wrong. Unless they are over-ripe, when the ketone levels probably go up.

We don't get fancy stuff like the Tuscan melons in the supermarkets around here, but I saw some when we were over at the coast a few weeks ago. They do sort of look like a Charentais/Western muskmelon cross - they resemble the French Orange I picked here, though the green ribs between the netting on the Tuscans were very pronounced.

Thanks for the comment on taste similarity of Charentais, Savor and Trocadero. One difference I have noticed is that Trocadero has been larger than the other two varieties, so far. Picked another one today. I think the differences in flavor we have noticed have been due to more water recently in the row with the hybrids, and the level of ripeness.

My perfect-looking little Charentais from yesterday was not nearly as sweet and good as the first, cracked one. Yesterday's Savor was not too inspiring, either. Also opened an Early Sugarshaw this morning that was not as sweet as the one cut Thursday. Tasted over-ripe. It could have been due partly to sitting on the counter for two days, but normally this variety will keep for a while at room temperature without losing much quality. The Extra Summersweet picked Thursday was better than the other three melons at this cutting. I pulled some leftover Sugarshaw from Thursday out of the fridge, and it was sweeter than any of the melons cut this morning. A second Crane melon tonight was sweet, juicy and pleasant, but not outstanding. I'll have to let some other people try it. Maybe cold.

I'll keep working on the culture of Ananas. Maybe I will get the hang of growing them.

Natasja,

The drama continues with the Sucrin de Tours (?) melons. Today the two most mature melons developed deep orange vertical stripes under the netting, and the netting thinned out, perhaps as the melon grew a little. The skin around the stem attachment is very slick. The leaf attached near the melon has withered on one melon and is withering on the other. Sometime soon, I will have to pick one of them. Anyone want to suggest when?

Root Trainers are plant starting containers which you can open like a book. They are bottomless and really do train roots down, rather than around the outside of the container. With melons, I like to plant two to a sleeve, germinate them over heat and separate and transplant them before they get true leaves. I use a loose, steam-sterilized potting soil to fill them. Tomato plants can be left in the trainers for a longer time, and seem healthier than those in 6-packs or similar containers. I lost a few melon seedlings after transplanting in April, but the losses were variety-specific and seemed to be due to damping off or a similar soil-borne malady.

Here is a link for the Root Trainers. People in the U.S. can get a slightly cheaper version from Park Seed, but I don't like the carrier as well, and it doesn't have the lid which can double as a soil-proof outer container for transporting the filled Root Trainers. Or, people in the U.S. can go to the U.S. site of the T&M catalog.

Here is a link that might be useful: Root Trainers

I'm intrigued by the mention of melon salsa (Carolyn a few days ago). Any recipes?
I've never seen root trainers before. It looks like you still have to take the plants out of their containers. I use peat pots in a plastic tray, so by the time I get to plant them the bottom is usually pretty demolished anyways from the water.
The comments about male/female flowers are true in my experience, Jamie: just wait! I also planted annual alyssum around the hills to attract bees just in case, although they are now covered with little wasps. I hope they can pollinate melons as well as bees.
Joe

Joe,

Thanks for the info. on how you start your melons. Root Trainers are a Canadian product, so there is a chance you could find them locally. I don't think you could use them for melons, since you start your plants so early and since melons resent disturbance to their roots once they get true leaves (less so than squashes, though). But Root Trainers could be great for tomatoes in your situation, I think. If you need to transplant to larger containers, you will need deep ones.

Our gardening partner, P., puts melon or cucumbers into basic Pico de Gallo. A close approximation would be the following recipe, without the orange juice or nuts, but with more chiles and lime or lemon juice. His favorite pepper is Chile de Arbol, which he has planted by our front sidewalk. He eats food "mas picante" than I can tolerate it.

http://appetizer.allrecipes.com/az/74022.asp

Here is a recipe for poached salmon with a tomato-free melon salsa that sounds pretty good to me. Maybe you could use Green Nutmeg and PFB in it:

Here is a link that might be useful: salmon with melon salsa

I know that melons, cucumbers, squash etc all put out a lot of male flowers first. But the French Orange seemed to be excessive. Guess I'm just worried because our growing season doesn't last forever up here. On the plus side, it has been the nicest summer here in probably 4 or 5 years. 80s and 90s for highs so I'm happy about that. Hopefully it will continue in to September. Next year I'm going to attempt an heirloom melon: Thinking about Ananas d' Amerique Chair Verte, Noir de Carmes, D'Algiers or maybe Prescott Fond Blanc. I think the first two are shorter season. Haven't decided on a water melon yet.

Jamie

Joe,

On the second recipe in my post above, I would probably skip the mint if I used Prescott Fond Blanc.

Jamie,

I would listen to Reign when she says that cantaloup d'Algers is not a sweet melon. But if you're looking for a dramatic serving bowl for Melon Pico de Gallo, d'Algers would fit the bill. Maybe Natasja can coax it to sweetness in the prolonged hot summer weather of Madrid.

Bill, thanks for the note. I'll keep checking in here to listen to the experts and post again when it looks like things are getting ripe. By the way, our raised beds are bordered by lavender. The bees are always around the flowers, and the fruits and vegetables. Seems to be working well. Since we should have warm weather now well into the fall, do I need to pinch of the smaller ones or just let everything grow?

"I would listen to Reign when she says that cantaloup d'Algers is not a sweet melon. But if you're looking for a dramatic serving bowl for Melon Pico de Gallo, d'Algers would fit the bill."
===

I think it is important to grow and preserve even the heirloom melons that aren't the best eats. Nothing wrong with growing a melon because it only looks or smells good. If we only grow for taste we'll end up losing a lot of important melons.

Reign,

I agree with you that it is important to preserve varieties for reasons other than optimum flavor. But if Jamie can only grow one heirloom melon, she should know what it's like, don't you think? Don't want her to give up on heirlooms the first year she tries one.

If she wants to amaze her friends, she can grow d'Algers, though the skin is so soft that I would worry about rot if she gets a lot of rain. This variety is still quite edible, even if it's not real sweet. Hence the salsa recommendation. She can take a look at your cooking ideas above, too.

Speaking of growing melons for looks or aroma instead of taste, I picked some prettier Tiggers today (mostly brick red, not much yellow). They smell good, too. I think I'll leave them whole for a while. But they weren't isolated, so it would be silly to save the seed.

Joe told me how he starts his melons so early. The easiest way I can think of to isolate a variety here for preservation is to start some plants a month earlier than all the other varieties, and pick off any early male blossoms from potential cross-pollinators until the first fruits set on my target variety - then I would mark the fruits for saving. What do you think?

My typical mode of support for heirloom varieties is to buy seed whether I need it or not. I have an embarrassing number of seed packets in the house. That's how I ended up planting more than 30 kinds of melons this year, a haphazard collection of heirlooms and non-heirlooms. Melon seeds don't take up as much room as bean seeds, but they aren't as interesting to look at. I've cleared out some space in the melon file to buy more seeds - melon seeds keep a long time, and some of the ones I planted this year were pretty old. Seeds are cheaper than jewelry if you have to collect something, and much more useful.

I just don't want to come across as going poo poo on someone's variety interest /choice. I'm usually so thrilled when someone wants to grow melons that I don't want to discourage in any way. I suppose I could make some suggestions since I'm closer to zone 4 conditions.

===
"...she can grow d'Algers, though the skin is so soft that I would worry about rot if she gets a lot of rain"
===

This is an area where you and I don't share the same experience with this melon. The skin was not "soft" for me.

My d'Alers vines were 3-4 feet long when I transplanted them. Somewhere around here we have photo of me taking them to the garden. I looked like a snake charmer.

You don't have room for a small isolation plot? It doesn't have to be big.

How about instead of picking off the male flowers, you use a row cover? When female flowers arrive, uncover and hand pollinate. There is no hurry for you to start saving seeds. You can wait and think through the best options.

I have a large seed collection too. I'm no where near embarrassed about it. :)

===
"Melon seeds don't take up as much room as bean seeds, but they aren't as interesting to look at."
===

That is where photos and books like Goldman's come in. Nice way to look at your collection :)

Reign,

Maybe my d'Algers was water-logged. It was sure spongy on the outside. Might be a variety that really needs a light hand with the watering can. Though P. really did overdo watering this row.

Sounds like you have some experience with transplanting larger melon plants, like Joe does. I think I am doing well here to get a plant through with two true leaves. But it was 105 degrees. P. taught me to really firm in the roots of transplants. Seems to work really well with these small transplants and with trees - it's a little scary to watch his foot over the roots of a new tree, but so far, so good. I have my doubts about using this technique on a larger melon plant - afraid of breaking roots.

I like the idea of row covers for pollination control. But sometimes here the weather heats up so fast that row covers cook plants. I do have some room for an isolation plot, but if I'm going to be distributing seeds, I still worry about the stray insect with wanderlust. I have two heirloom plants in isolation this year for an amateur hybridization experiment, but it's going to be pretty low-tech. and I don't really expect a pure hybrid.

Books and photos of heirlooms are more interesting to look at than the seeds, with the possible exception of beans. I have some nice heirloom vegetable books. Maybe I need some melon books, too. I'm not really embarrassed very often by my large seed collection, but once in a while, someone does look at me like I'm nuts. I can take it.

Gosh, you go away for 2 days and the thread explodes with great information.

Root trainers look super interesting, thanks for the link.

The sucrin de tours mystery deepens. Pick one of them when you just can't stand it anylonger. But i think the dying leaf is a pretty sure sign.

d'Algers is not in my garden this year, but it is not b/c i don't like it. The melons we harvested here did sweeten up a little, but it is far from the sweetest that we grow. It was aromatic and very complex flavored. There are times when you don't want a sugary sweet melon, especially to add to salads, to serve with prosciutto, to add to and use as bowl for curried chicken sald. (a personal fave)Speaking of using for a bowl, a drawback for me of d'algers is the large seed cavity. Not as much flesh as with other melons.

I would think for jamie the best bet would be any of adaptable to cooler climates or early ripeners like petit gris de rennes, or as she mentioned ananas d'amerique chair verte. Also keep reading the thread to see how collective farm woman fairs for those of us who are growing it. I read somewhere that you were thinking about tigger, and i think we would all say that there are a lot of other great melons to try first.

I am having problems with my golden midget. The oldest leaves are yellowing uniformly (no spots or patches). No wilt or wrinkling. The rest of the leaves seem healthy. Don't know weather to pinch them off or not. Maybe it needs a touch of shade. Blacktail mountain is spectuacular in setting fruit and vigour.

Natasja

Natasja - don't pinch them off.. I'm seeing the same thing here. At first I thought it was a problem. But remembered this melon has built in ripeness indicators. When both the foliage and melon turn yellow, it is ripe. I noticed that the fruit on un pollinated female turns the same color as the leaves that I thought were sick. I think we're both A Okay. :)

Obus - or some of your leaves so large that they droop some during the day heat and perk up once sun is going down?

Carolyn - light weight insect barrier covers shouldn't cook your plants.

I have one plant of St. Nick [santa Claus type] that has 2 fruits that are probably near full size now. I think it is setting another and if it stays healthy, it might set a few more. My question is: How much yellowing is best before picking this non-slip variety? Since it can store a long time, does it hurt to leave them on the vine a little extra?

Well, I think Reign and I may have seed for the real Sucrin de Tours. What an interesting melon to watch grow.

Yesterday, I picked up on Carolyn137's link on French melons from another thread

http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/produit.asp?numsouscategorie=100

and I stared at the detail on Sucrin de Tours, linked below. Think I've seen it before.

I got to thinking that the melons I was waiting on looked way more mature than the one in the picture. I picked the oldest melon. It was strikingly beautiful to look at. But it had firm, dryish, pale orang flesh.

I picked the last cream and orange-caramel melon in the morning, which still had a green spot. I figured I might as well be curious and also picked one which was almost dark green under the high-relief netting, even though it didn't look ripe. Wasn't ripe, but the flesh was darker in color than the probably over-mature melons. Still nowhere near red. Very hard and crispy. Pleasant, somewhat sweet.

The picture in the link is very close to the appearance of the last melon I picked today - netting with pronounced relief, large seed cavity, etc. You will note that the flesh does not really look very red.

The text indicates that this melon is ordinarily very good. Maybe this means that there are times when it is not so good. Maybe there is a reason these are a regional specialty of the Loire valley in France and not the Central Valley in California. Every melon I have tried has had very firm, finely textured flesh. Actually hard and crispy in today's green-skinned (under the netting) melon. The green one was sweeter than the older ones.

Maybe if I can pick the last melon on the vine when the skin under the netting is uniformly very dark forest green, before it does its quick-change to dark cream, the flesh will show some hints of red. Otherwise, we will have to wait for the plants I started in May, which look happier than the ones these melons came from . It's possible that the current melons came from an alkaline spot in the ground or something.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sucrin de Tours

I picked the first two Butterscotch sweeties. The first one was very sweet, but sadly, the was kind of grainy in texture, but slightly under-ripe. It was lime green with orange swirls and orange at the seed cavity. The second one was less sweet but had a great texture, mainly orange and lime green tinges. There are about 30 fruit with about 8 plants, and when it's warmer, I can get maybe 6 fruit per plant that ripen to an edible size. I also had one Galia ripen. It's such a beautiful melon, netted and bright yellow on the outside, honeydew green on the inside. It looked ripe but maybe it was picked about a week too early (it does not slip when ripe). It was almost equal to BS in sweetness, but I still have to give the sweetness edge to Ambrosia.

I will be planting a few plants of Haogen and Charentais in the next few weeks. Hope the weather remains warm.

"I still have to give the sweetness edge to Ambrosia."

Made me smile. With that many fruits on SB you're bought to get dozens of perfect ones.

The hybrid that I affectional named TBA (Trying Bill's Ambrosia) has set a good amount of fruit. I am still hoping it is Ambrosia. But trying not to set myself up for a disappointment.

I tried a Sprite Melon from the local grocer this evening. The white on white was attractive. The taste of this softball sized melon was so poor it hurt my feelings. I tried a spoonful from the two I bought and then tossed them in the bin. I expected more after having read so much about them and the program in NC.

I did save a few seeds for future experiments.

Reign,

If I remember correctly, Sprite's a hybrid. I don't like it, either. I hope Bill gets a lot of nice melons this year, too.

It's getting busy in the melon patch. Yesterday I picked a Sugar Nut (Hybrid) and a Mary Gold (OP) canary melon from vines wilting in heat. Both forced slip. Sugar Nut was sweet, but that was all, straight from the garden. It was a mystery to me how it could have won a Cook's Garden Taste Test.

http://cooksgarden.com/prodinfo.asp?number=415&variation=&aitem=1&mitem=8

But Sugar Nut tasted better after it had cooled to room temperature. And after a few hours at room temperature, I could tell how it could win a taste test. It developed a very nice flavor after some time off the plant, which balanced its sweetness. Mary Gold continued to taste like it had been picked a little early. But in the morning, when I tasted them cold, I preferred the Mary Gold - crisp and refreshing. The sweetness of the Sugar Nut was too much when its flavor was masked by cold. Mary Gold is one of the few melons so far this year which has tasted better to me cold than at room temperature. Another is the Crane Melon from Saturday.

The plants looked ready to expire, so today I gave them a little water, even though they still have nearly ripe fruit on them. We'll compare before and after watering. Hit the irrigation ditch fast, though. Didn't let the water trickle in for hours. Plants have perked up.
Got a good PFB yesterday, too. I know they're not supposed to slip, but it did. Seemed natural this time, unlike the one that slipped after over-watering. The skin was an orange-caramel cream color. Nice, firm, moderately sweet, flavorful flesh. Pale orange scallop around edge of flesh. Very attractive.

We also got several Charentais types today, including a Savor at the perfect stage of ripeness. Trocadero still follows the pattern of being a larger melon with a larger seed cavity than Savor or Charentais. Got some other assorted melons, too.

Bill,

Ha Ogen produced its first ripe melon today. Turned gold with green sutures, Slipped. DH loved the aroma, and it wasn't too bad for my warped sense of smell, either. Though after some time on the kitchen counter, I could tell how some people would find the aroma to be too much. You didn't goof up when you inadvertently talked me into planting another round of this melon. It's not overpowering to me like that French Orange was. It was bigger than I expected for this variety, 5.5 x 6". It was sweet and juicy, with a rather loose texture. Had its own very nice flavor. Mary Gold edged it out when we compared the melons cold. Haogen beat out Sugar Nut cold, even though Sugar Nut was much sweeter.

The big surprise of the day was a Banana Melon. It slipped . Very lightly netted, creamy yellow and pale green with a few darker green flecks, 5 x 8.5". Not as long and skinny as most pictures you see of this variety. Not a particularly thick-fleshed melon, but tasty. Very sweet, aromatic, with its own flavor. Sweeter than the smallish Burpee Hybrid Crenshaw I picked with it. The Crenshaw also slipped. Darker orange, firmer flesh than the Crenshaw. Comparable in sweetness to Ha Ogen, probably a little sweeter. Much finer texture. From Willhite Seed. I think they have been doing some selection on this variety. It's the second down on the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Willhite non-hybrid melons

Reign,

Sprite is a melon whose texture I don't care for. It's crispy, and I prefer a softer juicier melon. But when it's a happy plant, it puts out some of the most aromatic melons. It kind of reminds me of crispy, white flesh and white skin honeydew with hints of bazooka bubblegum.

spacific-

No, I never prune a melon plant. I just let them sprawl and have a ball. I hope your plants stay healthy.

Bill

I love the enthusiasm on this thread. I don't think I have met people who love melons as much as everyone here. I love it! I am a novice when it comes to gardening and much appreciative of all the descriptions and advice.

Ann,
I am the one from Long Beach. I just recently cleared an area for the Petit de Rennes, and I have another small space for the Charentais that I will need to clear asap. I planted three seeds for both melons. All three of the Petit came up and two of the Charentais grew. They look healthy so far. Let me know how yours turn out. It sounds like from one plant one can get a lot of melons. I am uncertain about the amount of space I have for them but even if I only get a couple of melons I'll be happy.

For all those experienced with Charentais, is there a taste difference between the hybrid and heirloom versions? Just wanted to know for next year.

Thanks,
Green

Bill, thanks for the note. I won't prune (except where it's taking over the eggplant. I had so little confidence in what I could grow, that I planted way too close, and probably a few things that shouldn't be together. But this year was just an experimental year. My watermelon plants are now a couple of inches and growing. I at least had enough sense to plant them on a side yard with a bit more room. Unfortunately, the soil there is not as good as in the beds (which I started new this year with 1/2 compost and 1/2 planting soil).

Hey Green, I'll be interested in seeing how your plants do. For all of you with too many seeds that want someone in So.Cal. to do any testing, let me know. I'll be happy to try! Not really knowing sources, I'm guessing my Charentais Edonis seeds from Johnny's Seeds are hybrid and therefore unable to reuse the seeds?

Wayne,

I believe the instructions for St. Nick melon are to pick it slightly under-ripe if you intend to store it. It is supposed to get sweeter in storage. If you want to eat it now, let it ripen fully if you want. I think this type is quite sweet even when under-ripe. I don't really know how to tell when it is at optimum ripeness.

It's probably similar to some of the green-skinned, white-fleshed storage melons Natasja is very familiar with. She might be more help. I've got a few seeds of St. Nick planted for fall this year. I found with Canary melons recently that their flavor seems to develop after the melon is off the plant for a few hours. I suspect that something similar might happen with this type of melon, even if you pick it ripe.

I never had any idea there were gardeners with such a wealth of knowledge of melon growing. Thanks for sharing. I am growing Petit de Rennes this year for the first time and would greatly appreciate any and all information about this variety. My plants are healthy and have melons that are up to 5" in diameter. Thanks in advance. Kerry1GA

Thanks, Carolyn.
I see Santa Claus melons at the store often and they are green with a little bit of yellow mottling. I assume these are full ripe.

I noticed that the French site (graines baumaux) says re Prescott Fond Blanc 'leave one fruit only per plant'. Is this what others have done in the past? Is it necessary? Joe

Joe - I'm sure as heck not doing that! :) I going for as many as I can get before time to consider end of season.

AS for storage melons, yes they are normally picked slightly underripe. Too underipe and they will never develop flavor. The tradition here in Spain used to be to save these melons in a cold, dark pantry and serve them for Christmas. That was when fruit was not readily available in winter and transportation wasn't what it is now.

I have read about and talked to a lot of french melon farmers, and the question of pruning the vines and pruning fruit it up to a lot of debate. There are the organic, "biodynamic" farmers who don't believe in interfering in the plant's growth process and believe a healthy plant is self-regulating. Many others subject to shorter seasons and much rain in the north practice vine pruning and/or fruit pruning because it is the only way for them to have fully ripe fruit before the cooler weather sets in. If you read the cultivating advice on other french seed sites (ferme sainte marthe, biaugerme) they say that pruning is optional.

One of my Cream of Saskatchewan plants has started setting fruit, about half a dozen so far, about the size of my thumb. I've gotten this far! Joe, Winnipeg

Most of my watermelons aren't heirloom. I haven't done all that well with most of them [heirlooms]. I do have an old-time Dixie Queen though and an Orangeglo that looks really good sized now.
Perhaps Orangeglo is heirloom and a good Orangeglo is very good though I have had ones less than 20 pound that lacked ooomph in flavor.
My non-heirloom watermelons are really doing great this year....brought in a 27 pound SF#790HQ today. How does that variety name sound compared to heirloom names!!?

The Cream of Saskatchewan has about a dozen set fruit, some the size of a small baby's head. I have about a half dozen Prescott Fond Blanc. They're distinctive with the fruit the size of a golf ball and the blossom scar the size of a quarter. I haven't seen any Petit gris de Rennes or Green Nutmeg but I can't really get in to those hills because the vines are too thick. Of course looking doesn't make them set fruit any faster. Joe

football practice started this week, so I'm at the school guarding the melons from the boys. Some parents come along and were asking questions. We're discussing how you determine whether a watermelon is ripe and one dad says 'like this' and WHAM smashes a Cream of Saskatchewan open. I counted to ten and said 'I'll go get a knife and we can try it' but he misunderstood the purpose of the knife and was gone when I came back.
It wasn't 100% ripe. It had a bit of the sourness that you get from the rind all through it, but definitely tasted of sugar and watermelon. Some of the seeds were white but others had a bit of colour on them. Do they need to be fully coloured to be viable?
Joe, Winnipeg

We just ate a Cream of Saskatchewan watermelon. Saskatchewan was whupping the Winnipeg Blue Bombers so I was waving bits of rind at the tv saying 'cream Saskatchewan' but it didn't work.
Anyways, 5 1/2 lbs, about 7" round. Nicely sweet, very juicy. Not too seedy. This was the first - and largest - fruit to set. I might consider something else for next year. Joe, Winnipeg

Kokopelli seeds of France offers Sucrin De Tours and Green Olive netted melons. Both descriptions indicate they are red fleshed. I know Artisticgardens.com offers Sucrin De Tours. I'm looking for this unusual trait in musk melons. Unfortunately, Kokopelli is out of both varieties right now.

Anyone here had success with the red cantaloupes?
http://www.kokopelli.asso.fr/boutic/index-en.html

I don't know that I would recommend Sucrin de Tours for Texas. The melons never developed decent flavor or texture our hot climate, and never got particularly red - the flesh was far more pastel in tone than many melons I have grown - the closest to red it got was sort of a rosy pastel peach color.

It was very interesting to watch Sucrin de Tours grow, as it changed appearance a lot from one stage to the next. The seeds of this variety have been shown to germinate at lower temperatures than many other cucurbits.

For more saturated color in an heirloom melon, you might try the Banana melon from Willhite, though it isn't really red, either. But it tastes good and stands up to heat. Also recommended for parts of New England, to my surprise.

I've been reading this discussion with interest. I love melons but have never grown any. Would any of these varieties be suitable for a small garden? I don't have as much space as I'd like or I'd let melons ramble all over. Yum!

fliptx, you might consider Minnesota Midget Cantelope, the vines only grow 3-4 feet long.

Thanks, Gene :) That was on my shortlist of melons to try.

I need some help.I have a dark,dark orange skin melon.It is about the size of a softball.Does anyone know the name?
Thanks
jackman1944

Where did you get the seeds?

Does it look like any of the varieties at SeedSavers?

Hello.
I've had watermelons and armenian cucumbers in for over 2 months. They look beautiful and are still flowering; but no fruit. I'm presuming they have not been pollinated. I see only one flower, not (both) male and female - if I wanted to self pollinate.

Do I pull the plants out and start over; wait until the end of the season and prune, and try to re-start?

Thanks for any info.

I hope you've seen some fruit by now, gardenerlady! From what I've heard, it's normal to see only one kind of flower (male) on melons and cucumbers early in the season. I wouldn't call Mid-July "early", though...was the weather too cool, maybe?

I haven't been gardening for very many years, but I've always noticed that cucurbits produce male flowers for what seems like weeks (it really isn't) before they finally start producing female flowers. It goes along like tht just enough to make me god and worried, and then it resolves itself.

This has been an interesting thread to backread; I'm growing some Prescott Fond Blancs myself, and two melons did slip from the vine sort of early. They're nice enough, decently sweet, but nothing to write home about. Then I read the observations on overwatering, and thought "Oh." It's been very hot here, and some of their leaves got toasted on the vine, so I was watering them a lot, just soaking them. Maybe I'll cut back on the water a bit and see if my future melons are sweeter. They have a wonderful scent, though! It's sweet and spicy, sort of like melon and sort of like cedar wood.