Seems you've got your answer over on the Vegetable Forum. :)

Rodney

Here is a link that might be useful: Zucchini Growth Habit Question - Draping vs. Vertical?

Yes - I should have said so. Things have been quiet around here. ;)

I think saying things are quiet is a bit of an understatement. This forum is nearly dead. I hate to say that because this used to be one of my favorite forums but I remember it being a lot more active several years ago. Don't know what happened.

Rodney

I agree - even earlier this year it was more active seems like. Do you think SFG is falling out of favor with folks? I know some people over in Vegetables and Tomatoes shake their heads over its trendiness - easy to do when you've got acreage to spread out [g] which I don't, so it's been great for me so far.....I've got a lot growing in 32 sq ft. ;)

I can think of a couple reasons why people look down on SFG on the other forums. And before I begin, I guess now would be a good time to mention that I am a raised bed gardener that only loosely follows the SFG guidelines. I didn't use Mel's mix, I use plenty of compost and organic matter mixed in with my native soil.

1) Is because of the start-up costs involved and especially the soil mix. Not only is the mix expensive but it's also not really neccesary, in my opinion.

2) The plant spacings. With Mel's spacings you can pack more plants into a square foot but the production of each individual plant goes down as they compete with each other for light, water, and nutrients. Are you getting more production overall by growing more plants per square foot? No idea as I haven't done a side by side comparison. But you certainly do use more seed and to me that's a downside. And some of the spacings seem downright ridiculous to me. A few examples:

-Zucchini. You've seen how large a zucchini plant gets and that they are hard to corral. How in the heck is that supposed to fit into a single square foot? It just isn't going to happen. Same thing can be said for the squash/pumpkin spacing.

-Melons. I just don't see how you're supposed to be able to plant 1/sq. foot. Not even if you grow bush types and trellis them. Melon vines are very vigorous.

-Tomatoes. Unless you judiciously prune them there is no way you will be able to plant 1/sq. foot. Tomato plants, and indeterminates in particular, are huge if left to their own devices. I planted the shorter determinate (bush) varieties of tomatoes this year in a row, with the plants being 2 feet apart in the row. It's only the beginning of July but they are already a solid hedge of plants. Now these haven't been pruned at all (not really supposed to prune determinates) but you get the idea. And indeterminate tomatoes can get twice as big.

-Peppers. When I first started growing peppers I used the 1/sq. foot spacing. After a few years I learned to increase them to about 16-18 inches apart. And even though I've never grown eggplants, they'd most likely do better at a farther spacing as well.

-Bush beans. The spacing guidelines say to plant 9/sq. foot. I plant in rows a foot apart with the seeds spaced 2 inches apart in the row. That's the equivelant of 6 seeds per square foot. I've got a solid 4'x4' bed of beans right now that are flowering. I don't see how I should be able to fit 3 more seeds per square foot or 48 more plants total in that bed.

-Brassicas. Some will do well at 1/sq. foot and others would do better at wider spacings.

Some of the other plant spacings will do well if you want baby veggies. Otherwise they'll need wider spacings to reach full size. I will say that garlic does well for me at 4/sq. foot.

Now I'm not trying to put the SFG method down and I'm not saying it doesn't work. It's just that I've found it needs some minor spacing tweaks.

Rodney

Rodney, I respect your view, but I have to disagree on some of your points. You have a valid point on watermelon and squash varieties. These do tend to take up a lot of space and really don't fit the mantra of space efficiency, which is really the main part of SFG. Not everyone has a lot of space to work with, in fact I live in DT Atlanta so I have very limited sun space. Growing squash and watermelon wouldn't really be practical for me either way. But, with that said, indeterminate varieties do great when pruned to a single stem and grown up a stake. It does take a little bit of time pruning and caring for them, but that's half the fun. Time wise though, it is very minimal. I have an 8 X 2 box where i have the back side lined with 8 tomatoes, all indeterminate heirloom varieties. I then have 8 pepper/eggplants in the spots in front. I have never had issues with overcrowding and my harvests are just as big as my friends row gardens in the country (which is where I am originally from). So saying that, I have 8 different heirlooms ranging from big rainbows to some kind of cherry all in a 1X8sqft plot of land. Pretty darn cool. They are all about 8 feet tall right now and filled with fruits so yes, it is possible. I also have bush baby watermelons growing on my trellis straight up, and they share their square with a sweet crimson WM that grows under my Okra and other tomatoes in my other 2X 8 box. As far as zuchinni goes, I have mine in a 2X2 sections that i set aside for squash and bush babies. I have 4 of those larger squares each with one healthy plant in the middle. The zucchinis are grown up stakes and yes, that was more difficult to manage, but it really helps keep it tight and I grow leaf lettuce under it, so it serves duel purposes. The dirt mix can always be argued, but the point is that the mels mix does work and it doesn't have compaction issues as topsoil mixes may exhibit in the future. I just feel that all kinds of gardening have their upsides and downsides, and for me SFG has more upside than all other options. You yourself are essentially square foot gardening, just without the grid. You choose not to trouble yourself with the pruning. All this does is limits the amount of varieties you plant, but you still probably get your fair share of a harvest, so to each their own I guess.

I think maybe the price of the official mix is somewhat difficult for people. Seemed like so many of the posts at the beginning of the season were about pricing vermiculite etc.

I'm also using my native soil with OM and compost...made more sense for me as we had a lot of soil we were either going to haul off or use - and throwing soil away into the green bin seems counterintuitive in so many ways....so far it's worked pretty well.
Growing indet. tomato plants in one square foot is a challenge for sure - and I gave up on the single stem idea early on - they got out of control and then I kept reading that it decreases production so....I just let them go....they're a jungle but producing..

I guess we shall see if the forum perks up - perhaps everyone is just enjoying their bounties! ;)

I agree with PlanterJeff. The only problem I have with Mel's Mix is that it dries out very fast in our Georgia heat. But I compensate by heavily mulching.
You can grow cantaloupes and watermelons (sugar baby) 1 per square foot if you trellis. This watermelon trellis has 6 watermelons growing that are almost ready to harvest and about 5 more smaller than a baseball. The vines have grown up the 7 foot trellis and are arching over the top of the watermelon trellis to the cantaloupe trellis which is behind the watermelon trellis.
I have a 2 x 8 bed of rattlesnake pole beans that have produced so many beans that I just threw a 5 gallon bucket of the beans on my compost pile because I am sick of stringing, blanching and freezing them. I was a dummy and should have given them to a food bank. Duh.