The most tactful way I can think of is canceling any payments right.

Explain the situation to your friend and show them his work and you areas of concern so they understand the situation.

Just call the tile man and talk to him and show him the areas of your concern.

People choose rectified porcelain for its exact sizing from tile to tile and ability to have ultra thin joints.

If the problem wasnt the product in sizing differences from tile to tile, then he shouldnt be installing tile if he cant keep a consistent 3/16" joint with rectified porcelain. Heck, many craftsman install that with a 1/16" or 1/8" joint with no problems.

I fear this tile man has no experience installing rectified porcelain tile, and while he may install standard tile to perfection, his skillsets need some updating for rectified porcelain.

If the grids are out of square and off in many areas, repair may not be possible, but I havent seen the job so i cant tell one way or the other.

I fear a complete replacement may be needed to give you what you want.

Lippage is pure installer error as well.

Rectified porcelain is the ideal product for people who demand tile and joint perfection. You should accept nothing less.

Don't stand for excuses.

good luck.

Thank you, Floorman67, for validating our concern and for your professional advice. How fortunate we are to have experts such as yourself checking this forum.

Here's the update...so far, while the contractor admitted some areas are not good, he is reluctant to replace any tile. He wants to come back and fill in some of the grout lines near the high tiles a little more with grout, thinking this will help them blend in. (Perhaps the problem with rectified tile is that even the slightly elevation of a tile is more obvious.) It looks like someone may have stepped on some of the tiles before they were set, so they were not level with the others.

As for the variable grout line widths, and in one place it's really off, it's become apparent that one of the cut tiles installed next to the island was definitely not aligned, then the next tile set was aligned with the problem tile, and so the next 4-5 tiles are all off. It's hard to believe that this was not corrected on day 1.

I have another question for you, Floorman, if you don't mind. How would you as a tile contractor, have approached this job, i.e., where would you have started, and in what order would you have approached this to get the best results? And does rectified tile change anything? First a little info. on the layout - the front door leads immediately into a hallway (to tile) and there is a doorway just off the front entrance that leads right into a large kitchen (to tile) that has an island. Part of the kitchen has a dining area (to tile).

From what we can tell, first the diagnonal tiles were centered down the hallway, then the tiles were filled in moving toward the kitchen island, at which point he started to set the tile not only around the island but in the large expanse of the kitchen. Unfortunately by the time he had tiled around the island (and the rest of the large kitchen) the grout line was way off and multiple tiles were affected. Seems to us that you would want to perhaps set 1 row of tiles around the island at an earlier point to make sure there were no obvious problems with the grout lines matching better (which would affect maybe 20-25 tiles at most), but then we're not contractors. Your feedback on this is appreciated.

Unfortunately this particularly bad area is not a typical place for a rug, which we shouldn't have to do. Again we appreciate your taking the time and hopefully this lesson will help someone else.

Rectified tile with a 3/16" grout joint? I am not sure how an installer could mess that up, but apparently they did. I don't see real fixing this without some or all replacement. Pictures would be great help.

kichen4us,

All I can suggest is be firm with him, and if he doesnt repair or replace the job to your satisfaction, you may have civil legal recourse. It isnt the easiest nor nicest route to go, but sometimes it's really the only route. He screwed up a job and isnt making good on it. So what else can you do accept let him rip you off or force the matter legally?

Our industry is plagued with uneducated installers, and for whatever reasons, whether that be ego, pride, or a lack of knowing any better, they give us a bad name daily. Consumers need to step up and require that they be held accountable. This is the only way things will ever change with the uneducated hacks. This also helps to prevent future consumers from enduring the same experiences and can have ripple affects in either: the isntaller no longer doing this type of work, or pressure them into becoming more educated if they really care.

In the end it's up to you what you do about it, if anything.

I hope you havent paid him or cancelled the payment until he fixes it since he obviously doesnt know enough to be doing this in the first place.

Sorry If I seem harsh, but I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your actions and installation education. It doesnt matter WHY its done inproperly, and if mistakes are made you make good on them or pay someone who can in repairs or replacements.

Ok I am off the soapbox now.

Here is how I would have laid out a diagonal kitchen/combo room with a hallway. Since I dont know the shape, size, and layout of your area, I created one below.

Here is the way we educate all employees to approach every tile job whether that be rectified porcelain, ceramic tile, or stone tiles.

Lay out the tiles on the floor with the customer requested joint sizes into a managable square (in this case lets say 3, 12"x12" tiles, with in your case, 3/16" joints.

Now we have 9 tiles on the floor forming a perfect square with the joint sizes set all equal.

We then measire that squares dimension and mark this on a piece of paper for reference. This we keep consistent throughout the installation process and never deviate from it, so if there is ever any error, that error only resides in that one square containing 9 tile and is easily fixed.

As illustrated, this one single block of the installation grid we will place on the floor and re-use over and over again, and we have a measurement of 36&3/8" tile to tile, and 36&9/16" tile to joint, so we write those both down.

Next, we want to create a temporary line parallel with the longest wall, preferrably an exterior wall. We get this by measuring into the room on each end of that wall and striking a chalk-line connecting those 2 points.

Next we strike a true perpendicular temporary line down the center of the hallway and double and triple check it for being truely square using the Pythagorean Theorem and number triples for proof of a true right triangle. (e.g. 3'squared x 4'squared = 5'squared , or A squared plus B squared equals C squared, meaning, For any right triangle, the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides .. there are many pythagorean triples number sets that will work for this ... here is a handy generator).

The reason I am going into the mathmatics of obtaining the perpendiculars, is that without the lines being absolutely perpendicular, the tile isntall can be off, and this is expecially important with rectified porcelain because their thin joints allow very little room for error and tile positioning withing the gridswe are going to construct.

Simply laying a carpenters square on the floor, hoping its square, and striking a long line off of that very small reference is not a proper way to layout a ceramic install grid system and a perpendicular. MEASURING and using geometry is the correct way ... and it's absolute and accurate everytime.

The purpose of these temporary perpendicular lines perform a few function. First, we use them to measure the other walls off of to ensure the areas are square to the lines which are square and perpendicular to the main exterior wall we used to make them, like the hallway and wing walls in the kitchen. If they are not square and perpendicular within reason, then we can slightly adjust the line sets to achieve this while keeping them perpendicular to each other.

Next we want to create the first of two main diagonal control lines on a true 45 degree angle. Since we have proven that our main control lines are true perpendiculars, we can do this very easily by simply measuring an equal distance off the intersection of the temporary lines (any 2 next to each other). So if we measure exactly 10 feet in two directions off the intersection, make a mark, then connect those points, this gives us our diagonal ... a true 45 degree angle from each temporary line. We then measure back the distance to the intersection, transfer that distance on each end of our new line, then place that diagonal on our intrsection, which becomes our first main control line.

We want to pick a long open spot on the floor that goes between any obstacles, like cabinets and islands so its easier to measure around them for our grid system ... a place where we can place a main control line. This line may need adjusted a little later after we figue for cut size equalization and tile placement layout. THis ensures absolutely that our grid system and all lines are perfectly square and parrallel around any obstruction like cabinetry and islands.

Using the previously mentioned set of Pythagorean triple numbers we strike a perpendicular control line both on diagonals, then create a perpendicular like we did previously.

Ok so now we have our 2 control lines (in red in the below illustration) that are truely perpendicular to each other, so now we dry lay outa few tiles to ensure these staring control lines are exactly where we want them in terms of tile start oints and cut sizes. If they arent where we want them we simply measure off of them and move them as needed maintaining the perpendiculars and using the new lines. It is a simply matter of measuring and laying out tiles dry, then moving the lines evenly as needed to get the correct cut size at each wall, while ensuring the high presentation area of the hallways remains on-center (as illustrated).

Next we have to mark and snap chalk lines for every block to grid out the installation area using our information we wrote down from the first illustration for the tile block. We use either the tile to joint or tile to tile measurement depending on the installation justification. (e.g. all perimeter cut lines I like to set the grid to the tile edge to do the cuts first, then I use the tile to joint measurements in the open field. This allows an easier installtion for the most part, because you can be set up for all cuts, then come in and do the field, but some installers like to do cuts as they install).

here is a illustration: the light blue/aqua lines represent individual tiles and they are for reference only and not meant to be individually marked on the subfloor. {{gwi:1527216}}

After the grids are all in place, the installer needs to measure random grids in separate sections of the installation corner to corner. If theya re all within 1/16" then the grid system is square and ready to install. If not, there there is a problem somewhere throwing it out of alignment.

You said the isntaller stared in the hallway. If he did this without gridding it out, then I would have to say its improper and is probably why nothing is ligning up right and he has to move tiles to shuck and jive the isntall to make up for the errors. This is almost impossible with unltra thin joints with rectified porcelain because there is no room for adjustment.

As to the high tiles, a good tile man will have a masons level or something similar with them laying on top of the tiles as they install them to prevent lippage. If there is any lippage, the add or remove thinset as needed for flush heigh from tile to tile.

Also, I need to add that sometimes a substrate or subfloor might be wavy and this is something that is the installers responsibility to CHECK and address prior to the install if there are any issues with height and waviness.

In conclusion, in my opinion, the only proper way to do a sizable area is the grid system I have shown. When the grid is completed and marked correctly, ANY problems will be within one single grid and is easily fixable.

This is basically along the same lines as the carpenters creed ... measure twice or three times ... cut and isntall once.

here is a copy of the full size illustration if you want it: {{gwi:1527215}}

If your man had done what FM just posted, you would not be on here with a problem. It is not rocket science but is a science of sorts, and installers need to be better trained and held accountable. You are paying us to have your job done correctly.

That's my outlook on any task I am paid to do.