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charles1218

Converting heat pumps to geothermal

charles1218
11 years ago

We are considering replacing our 4 ton and 2 ton heat pumps with geothermal. The 2 ton system was added to support a new addition about 5 years ago. The evaporators for both units are in the attic. I had a WaterFurnace contractor out today. He recommended horizontal boring for the ground loops. He recommended replacing both units with split systems that would use Freon to connect the outdoor and attic units. He said it was not practical to include hot water heating with this type of system. He also recommended replacing all the existing duct work, adding additional attic insulation, and slightly rearranging one of the air returns. I question whether the new duct work and insulation are needed, since the existing system seems to be working acceptably. The house does have storm windows in the original construction and double pane casement windows and double pane doors in the addition. I do plan to get one or two more estimates, but am just wondering in general if the recommendations of the first contractor seem to make sense. We live in east central Alabama, and our soil is mostly clay with some sand.

Comments (7)

  • jackfre
    11 years ago

    The suggestion of "replacing" your ductwork, as suggested by a pro should tell you that your comment about working "acceptably" is incorrect. The gshp may require greater airflow than your current system can handle. As well, the vast majority of residential ductwork leaks like a sieve. I would recommend that you totally eliminate your current system ...gulp, and look into mini split heat pumps. No duct work is necessary. Very high efficiency and you can do it for FAR less cost then your gshp. You will have tremendous energy reduction with better comfort than you are currently running and be very close to the operating costs of gshp. Check out www.fujitsugeneral.com and Mitsubishi.com

    If you end up going with this gshp and new ductwork, I would strongly recommend that you have a contract that requires third party testing of the ductwork. Do not pay until the system is tight. Otherwise you are not getting what you paid for.

    I did as I have suggested in my home and my daughters. Pulled all the old ductwork and equipment and put it Fujitsu heat pumps. Terrific. I'll never put in a piece of ductwork in a home again. Check it out!

  • fsq4cw
    11 years ago

    Just a couple of points, If you're presently using heat pumps and you say they work fine then your duct work should be OK. It should be checked for leakage and repaired, perhaps some modification may be in order but it doesn't sound like it needs to be ripped out and replaced.

    As for the desuperheater for domestic hot water production, I would definitely have this option because you're in an A/C dominated climate, probably very hot and humid. The desuperheater is a BIG plus and will help as you are extracting heat from the envelope which will go into your hot water tank rather than being sunk into the ground. If you were in the North where you would have a heating dominated climate and were trying to heat your home as well as heat the hot water then there may be some merit to the recommendation but not in your case. I would also absolutely have the desuperheater feed a buffer tank that then feeds your active hot water tank. Your hot water should be virtually FREE while you're air-conditioning.

    As for your ground conditions, is the ground wet or dry? How deep is the undisturbed earth (overburden) till the bedrock? I would be careful about horizontal ground loops if your soil is mostly clay and sand - not the best conditions! I'm not saying it can't be done, just be careful about what you do. If you do a horizontal ground heat exchange be sure it's properly sized and I would recommend installing a 'soaker hose' so that should you have a very long dry spell you have a method of rehydrating the ground loops otherwise you'll be up a dry creek without any A/C!

    As for the mini splits, I'd sooner air-condition in your area with the ground at around 65F to 67F than with the air when it's blistering hot!

    SR

  • ionized_gw
    11 years ago

    Is it hot and humid where you live? If so, having the ducts outside is not the best. Where is the recommended additional insulation going, on the attic floor or under the roof deck? Where I live, often the recommendation for attics with ducts is to seal the attic and insulate the roof deck. Then you could go with mini splits as Jackfre suggested. I like mine and the efficiency rivals that of ground source. You'll have no more pesky HVAC-induced pressure differentials sucking our your precious conditioned air either. Crunch some numbers to see what makes sense.

  • charles1218
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the comments.
    Jackfre: The rep did not say that more air flow is needed--just that the existing ducts (especially the ones in the original construction) probably leak. He recommended at least having it tested.
    fsq4cw: I'm not sure why the rep said that water heating would not be possible. I think he said that it would be for a self-contained system, but not the split system he would recommend for my application. The ground here is pretty wet in winter; a drilled post hole will fill with water. But I still worry that heat conduction could be compromised by air pockets that remain after pulling the pipes. I don't know if grouting would eliminate that issue.
    ionized: The ducts would be in the attic; the insulation is in the attic floor.

  • countryboymo
    11 years ago

    There are drill rigs that can drill from one central location out like an upside down sugar cone so the area that the lines area close might be 5' around at the entry and whatever is specified depending on the yard size at the bottom. This allows a person to plant trees or do about anything without being limited by wells across the yard.

  • david_cary
    11 years ago

    Of course in Alabama, it usually wouldn't make financial sense to convert to geothermal.

    What do you pay for HVAC now? How old are your heat pumps and what Seer are they?

    What does your geo person claim for improved efficiency and cost savings? I'd love to see the numbers....

    Minisplits can make more sense but the federal government has picked geo as the winner here so that 30% goes a long way to distort reality.

  • geoffreyirvine
    2 years ago

    Regarding how to handle ductwork to achieve higher efficiency, have not heard anyone suggest using a technique to seal the ductwork. The process involves sealing all the outlets then circulating a powder(?) that seals all the joints until leakage is minimal . Has anyone used this process? What was your result.