huh? I have had an estimate for an insert and they said it has to be lined. It does not need to be lined for a gas log set.

So you are saying I should not get a draft when I open the damper? Soemtimes I do sometimes not. Its not like wind is blowing in the house but if I stick my hand there it get a colder when I open the damper. We did burn wood and paper logs last year and did not have a problem...just the smell that lingers in the box for a few days.

Loosing heat 'up' the chimeny is another reason NOT to have the vented log set. Another reason why I'd like the unvented but want to use it with damper open when flameing.

Search for "gas fireplace insert" or "b-vent". Many (probably all) use "b-vent", which needs nothing from inside of the house. One flue brings the combustion air in, the other concentric flue takes the gases/vapor out.

NO, not talking about that.

I am talking about a simple unvented gas logset. They place it int he fireplace and hook it to the propane tank. The damper stays shut all the time. Maybe my original post was not clear enough.

Andre:

You should go to Hearth.com and post your question there.

You've been posting about this subject and the Trane heat pump for over a year.

Time to sh%t or get off the pot.

Good luck.

Trane Unit is picked out--done deal. Just will not purchase while out unit is running with no problems---won't get into that again.

As far as the Fireplace issue, maybe I should post elsewhere since no one has been able to answer the question.

Good Bye!

If you have a negative pressure in the house, due to other reasons, such as kitchen/bath vent fans, and/or vents from water heaters or central heating systems, that negative pressure will induce a draft down the chimney and into your living space.

I understood your post to mean you can feel the cold air in your recliner when there is no fire in the fireplace.

How about a wood pellet stove?

I would not install an "internally vented" gas fireplace.

Yes. It could well be that I only feel the draft when someone has a bath fan on or something. I have not figured that out yet. I just know that if the damper is completley closed I never feel anything.

That is why I was shying away from a vented logset (must leave damper open a little bit at all times)and considering opting for an unvented set BUT would open the damper when running to let the smell/moisture (and yes heat) out when it was running. I could close the damper when not in use.
Again, not sure if that really lets all the pollution up the chimeny and I am not sure if that has any affect on the type of flame we'd see. Remember, we are in this for the ambience, not the heat.

We have a friend with pellets- very nice but we are sensitive to the smell.
Thanks!

We moved into this house with a gas log set in the original wood fireplace with the damper locked in the open position as required by code. The previous owners were on a monthly equal payment plan with the gas company and their monthly rate was astronomical which sort of scared me about buying the house. Anyways after a month or two the first winter I shut off the pilot, closed the damper and what a difference in the gas bill, it dropped like a lead balloon. Only thing is now if I want to use the fireplace I have to take the time to light the pilot and open the damper, but that only takes a minute or two. Next lighting will be around Christmas LOL

Yes, you do not want to use the bented gas logs to heat, that is for sure. They are for decoration only.

Code where I live prohibits closing the damper with the log set connected. I guess whether the pilot is on or not, the fear is gas could leak into the home, hence the damper is locked open.

If it is for decoration, why not install an electric one? Some of them look pretty real.

Yes they do. I may even get one for the bedroom. However the ones I have seen that you stick in the fireplace look really fake.

I have had an unvented propane log set for about 10 years. When it gets cold we run them and in 10 years have never had a problem. They do a nice job of heating the house and my butt. They also look nice when running. The smell gets a little used to as wood smells nicer in my opinion. I have opened the vent on occasion but that just lets the heat go up the chimney. I have never had a moister problem that I know of. They came with a carbon monoxide sensor to shut them down in case they emit carbon monoxide also.
As to the chimney cold air problem, If the wind is blowing hard and its cold, sometimes the cold air falls down the chimney but if you build a fire the heat goes up and the cold air doesn't fall anymore. It also depends on how cold the air outside and how warm the house air before things start happening.

Most every unvented log set is double listed. Meaning it may be used as an unvented or a vented set. It will not harm the unit in any way to open the damper and vent the unit.

>>


Sorry, but your post is a good example of why unvented gas logs are a hazard, and should be avoided in my opinion.

In theory, unvented gas log sets are safe if the directions are followed. But the directions are rarely read and never reliably followed, in my experience.

For example, in your post:

1. You say you use your unvented logs for heat. This is specifically prohibited in most unvented gas log sets, which usually have restrictions on how long they can be operated and which usually warn against using them for heating.

2. You also say you notice a smell. The directions for unvented gas logs direct users to shut off the burner if they notice an odd odor and to have the logs inspected or repaired. Odd odors are associated with carbon monoxide problems which are a special hazard with unvented equipment

Unvented gas logs don't come with a carbon monoxide detector, they often come with a piolt light that has an ogygen depletion sensor, but which doesn't detect carbon monoxide problems reliably.

In short, you repeatedly fail to operate and maintain your equipment safely, which exposes you family and visitors to possible injury or death if you are unlucky. You are taking foolish chances.

Don't feel badly, that is the USUAL state of affairs with unvented equipment. The smart move is to throw out the unvented equipment and buy vented equipment.

If you are concerned about the inefficiency of gas logs, buy a vented gas fireplace insert. They are usually around 70% efficient these days.

I read your post with curiosity. All unvented and vented gas logs are listed with BTU output and are for heat especially in the case of power outages, The part about the oxygen sensor is correct although today many ventless gas logs come with both and I have added a carbon monixide sensor next to mine as everyone should do if they have any gas appliance in the home. Also some smell is normal, read the description near the end of the article. You are correct when you say that your not suppose to operate too long but you left out the end of the sentence, where it says before opening a window. Again near the end of the article. This is basically what my instructions say.

Your gas log instructions must be 25 years old.

This comparison is virtually the same as I had seen on every manufactures web site I looked at.
This is copied from The Peterson Gas Log web site.

Vented vs. Ventless Gas Logs

- BACK TO PETERSON GAS LOGS

When shopping for gas logs, you'll be asked to choose whether you want vented or vent-free logs. This decision comes down to several factors including looks vs. efficiency, local building codes and placement of the fireplace.

With vented logs, you'll enjoy a large, realistic-looking flame that operates with an open chimney flue, or damper. These logs, which simulate a wood-burning fire, are more decorative than they are efficient as a heat source because much of the generated heat goes up the chimney.

Vent-free logs, which operate with the chimney flue closed, will not give you that roaring fire effectthe flame is not as realistic or as high as you'll find with vented logs. But, vent-free logs are an efficient heat source because 100% of the heat generated stays in your home. You'll often see vent-free logs referred to as "vent-free heaters" because that is essentially what they are. They consist of U-shaped burners with cement logs stacked on top of the heating element. Most sets have a thermostatic control that helps maintain a consistent room temperature. Vent-free heaters add moisture to the air, so it's important to install them in a room with proper ventilation to avoid formation of mildew.

Before installing any gas log system, check your local and state codes. In some localities, vent-free heaters are not permitted. Vent-free heaters are not permitted in bedrooms, bathrooms or recreational vehicles, and must be installed in an area where curtains, furniture, clothing or other flammable objects are at least 36 inches away from the perimeter of the heater. Vent-free heater installation also is not recommended in high traffic, windy or drafty areas.

Vented Gas Logs:

Positive Features of Vented Gas Logs:

* Extremely realistic flame pattern that looks like a wood fire.
* Flame is much taller than vent-free logs
* Flame dances and wraps around logs like real wood.
* Does not require a Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector

Since the damper is open, most of the smell will go up the chimney

Negative Features of Vented Gas Logs:

* Less heat than vent-free logs (probably won't heat your room)
* Uses slightly more gas than vent-free logs

Ventless Gas Logs:

Positive Features of Vent-Free Gas Logs:

* Much better heat output than vented gas logs
* Less pollution
* Slightly less gas consumption

Negative Features of Vent-Frees Gas Logs:

* Since the byproduct of burning gas cleanly is water, vent-free logs will introduce excess moisture into your home which can result in mold or mildew.
* You must be careful not to burn your vent-free logs for extended periods of time with windows closed, otherwise they will deplete the oxygen in your home.
* If you burn your vent-free logs for more than an hour or so, you must crack open a window to allow air into your home to replace the oxygen burned by the vent-free gas logs. This will introduce cold air into the room and offset some of the heating benefits that vent-free logs claim to have.
* Vent-free gas logs produce an odor that many people equate to the smell of burning kerosene. So if you have a sensitive nose, you may not be able to handle the smell and will be greatly dissatisfied with vent-free logs. On the other hand, we've heard some people who like the smell because it reminds them of their childhood days at Grandma's house.
* Vent-free logs are not legal in California as well as some cities and municipalities. Please check your local regulations. Please note that it is not illegal to use Vent-free log sets if they are used with the vent open.
* Vent-free gas logs are required to have an ODS (oxygen depletion system) as well as a Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector.
* The flame pattern with vent-free logs pails in comparison to vented logs. Because the gas must burn cleanly, the flame height is very low and most of it is blue. Also, you will find that the flame does not dance around like a real wood fire and very little of the flame actually touches the logs. The reason for this is that when the flame touches the logs, it gets cooled off and does not burn cleanly and starts to produce soot and exhaust gases.

Well, here is my experience so far. We got an un-vented Vanguard set. For safety I installed a CO2 detector up and down stairs. We leave the damper closed when not in use. My wife says she smells a whiff of gas now and then. I have a much more sensative nose and do not so long as I open the damper before opening the door set to turn the unit on. When we open the flu half way or more we smell nothing (maybe a wiff now and then but my Dad has a vented set says he gets a whiff now and then too). The flame is not a grand as my Dad's vented set but its fine for us. Some heat does radiate to our chairs alongside the fireplace. Over time our room (open floorplan) does warm maybe a degree)No moisture trouble so far but we do not run it all the time by any means.

Close the flu all they an a hell of a lot of heat comes out. Sadly the smell is unbearable to us. It permiates upstairs and everywhere. I may have the dude come back out to see if it is behaving normally because I'd say there is no way someone would 'not' smell it. We have an open plan with plenty of air too...it not like the unit is isn a little small enclosed room. If this smell is normal then the unvented sellers should be chastized for saying there is no smell.

So, our goal was to have a nice fire for ambience while not locking my damper open and allowing my heat to escape when not in use. This unit foots the bill. It would have been nice if it worked with the damper closed but we do not like the smell. Still in an emergency we'd have heat.

I think we made the right decision. It performs like the vented unit but could provide heat in an emergency.

based on some of the responses here I think one other thing should be added. A vented unit that is not direct vent will use up the oxygen in a house too and every gas appliance has to be sized alone and all together to determine if fresh air requirement are met or if additional combustion air needs to be provided. This includes gas ranges, dryers, furnaces inside the home, heaters vented or not, etc. The overall air condition inside the home is affected more by unvented units because over longer burning periods the combustion air mixes with the fresh air which affects the overall quality of the combustion air available. This is why manufactures recommend you crack a window, to provide more fresh air to counteract the combustion air of the unvented appliance. You must remember that a gas fire is just that...a fire. I know of no fire of any kind that does not produce some odor and things inside the home can further increase this odor. Things like candles, air fresheners, paints, new carpet, shoe polish etc. Is unvented the best way? I can't say I'm not a air quality expert but in my experience I will say that when unvented units are maintained properly and used properly they do a very good, safe job. I use and recommend them myself.

andrelaplume2:
How long have you had the set? Mine smelled for a couple months then gradually the smell dissipated. Although when you start them up you smell them until the fire is on a while. Its really not that noticeable after that. I never smell propane except when lighting. I always leave the vent closed and we do get a lot of heat from them. We got ours for both axillary heat and ambiance. We just moved and the new (old) house has 3 radiant propane heaters. They smell a little also but no propane except on lighting. I don't like them near as well as the logs, you will burn your butt in a second on them things. Mine are cement logs but I suspect that you would not get the smell as bad with the ceramic logs. My logs are heavy and the other type are very light.

We have had it about 3 weeks and used it may 12 hours. I think we are indeed smelling propane. I had to open a kitchen window the one night when I tried to run it with the damper closed....that how bad the smell was. Having the window open did not really help until I opened the damper. We are not lacking interior air either...its a 1000 sq ft open 1st level floor plan. Maybe it will go away over time...I hope so, I have my doubts though. I tried again last night. I tried opening the damper 25%---we got the smell. I opened it half way and the smell went away. We are happy with the flame and perhaps we are getting more residual heat than with a vented unit...not sure.

If you are smelling propane Please don't run it until its checked out, you should NOT smell any propane except a small whiff when you start the fire. 100% of the propane should be burned when its running. Something is wrong if you smell it while you have a fire running.
Propane is heaver than air and should lay near the ground. It has a smelling agent added so you can smell it. If your not sure, then open the pilot and get your nose in the area of the pilot and smell so you can recognize it.
Is it possible that you have unvented logs?