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mrs_nyefnyef

Fixed Window Frame Rotted - and on 3rd Floor

Mrs_Nyefnyef
10 years ago

Hi everyone, I am a complete newbie to windows, and need your expert advice! I only know 2 things: I hate Pella, and I love Marvin. My home has Pella windows original to when the home was built in 1991. In one room is a row of 5 windows next to each other. 3 are fixed, i.e. do not open, and 2 are casements. The windows are 33"wide by 58"tall.

My climate is suburban Chicago (zone 5a for you gardeners). The windows face SE and get a ton of sun. A couple of the windows in the winter get an ice line under the bottom, which I see first thing in the morning. Then when the sun hits it, the ice melts so the water puddles on the inside sill and frame. In winter, I put towels rolled up onto the sill to soak up the water. I also leave the window shades partially up to let air circulate, but I still get the ice line when the outside air is very cold.

So, the window frame in the worst condition is pictured here. It needs to be replaced. In my previous home I had Marvin windows, and thought they were great. But I am just looking to replace a fixed window and frame here, not one of the casement windows. Is it worth it to contact a local Marvin dealer for this fixed window? I didn't even see fixed windows on their website. Or, my neighbor told me he replaced his fixed windows with a local guy who has no-name windows, who he said did a nice installation.

And my final issue is that these windows are on the third floor. Does the installer need to have scaffolding, or can the window be installed just from the inside?

Comments (23)

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Here's a pic of the entire window, if that helps.

  • PRO
    Windows on Washington Ltd
    10 years ago

    Tough to say without seeing the exterior of the window.

    If it is fully rotted out and a full tear out, they will likely set up ladder scaffolds or a pump jack.

    Just makes it easier in the end despite the time to set up the access.

    Plan on paying a heft cent for a 3rd story between access, application, and size.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Windowsonwashington - thanks for your response. Can anyone advise me about my other questions? Does Marvin sell a simple fixed window like shown in my photo? If so, is it worth it to buy the Marvin, or save money since it's just a fixed window, and buy another brand or even a no-name brand?

  • PRO
    East Bay 10
    10 years ago

    Yes Marvin builds a "simple fixed window". But first, let's look at your situation. The sash has probably rotted because water has gotten between the cladding and the glass on the exterior and as it is trapped, rotted the window from the inside. If the window is still in good shape, you can replace just the sash and on the third floor that would be much easier and cheaper for you. Your options: purchase a new sash only from Pella or a replacement casement picture window (that can be installed from the interior) from Marvin. Note: you are going to lose about five inches of glass as you are putting a new frame and sash where there was only a sash. Again, there are other manufacturers that make wood clad replacement windows but you mentioned that you already have Marvin. In the Chicago area, there are a number of good Marvin dealers that can advise you on this.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Eastbay10 - thanks for your response. I definitely do not want to lose 5" of glass, and if I understood you correctly, that's what would happen if I replace just the sash, and keep the window itself. This window is one in a row of five, so it would look odd to have one window with 5" less glass than the other four. Even if I replace three out of the five windows, it would look odd.

    Also, for some reason the two casement windows in the row of five windows do not have the rotting that the fixed windows have. Why is that?

  • PRO
    East Bay 10
    10 years ago

    As I said earlier, I suspect that water is getting down between the cladding and the glass on the other three and rotting the wood. Talk to Pella about getting new sash. Those should be able to be installed from the inside. From what I have read, they probably won't help you out on the price but their customer service is monitoring this board so they may offer you something.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Eastbay10 - didn't you say if I get a new sash from Pella I would lose 5" of glass on the window? As I mentioned, if that is the case, I cannot choose that option of just replacing the sash. If I misunderstood about the 5", please let me know.

  • PRO
    Out of the Woods Inc.- Window & Door Specialists
    10 years ago

    I'd have a marvin dealer rep come out and look at the window. From the inside it looks like just the sash is rotted but like others have said it would be nice to see the outside. I wouldn't replace it with Pella, it's far less quality than Marvin. Replace like with like so it looks consistent.

  • HomeSealed
    10 years ago

    5" of glass loss is extreme, and not the norm when it comes to window inserts. That said, given the situation, ANY change in glass area will look weird, so I'd concur with the above and simply get a replacement sash assuming that the frame is in decent shape. If not, tear the full thing out and replace.

  • millworkman
    10 years ago

    A replacement sash should be exactly the same size as what you currently have, and should actually be an exact match (just without the rot, lol).

  • PRO
    East Bay 10
    10 years ago

    The 5" loss of glass would be a replacement window (sash and frame - 21/2" on each side). Since you have Pella windows as millwork said, a replacement Pella sash only would match what you currently have and that is the best route since you have other windows.

  • HomeSealed
    10 years ago

    Eastbay, there is a sash in both applications, so you can't take the 2 1/2 -2 3/4 measurement from the edge of the frame to glass of a replacement and say that is all lost. You need to subtract the 1 1/2" or so of existing sash per side that is coming out. Most replacements will lose somewhere from less than 1" to 1 1/2" per side of glass area, so more like I do agree with you though on this application as I mentioned above.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks everyone! Great knowledge here! It looks like I will have to call Pella, just so as to match the other windows. I have had all kinds of headaches with the Pella windows in this home, including a sliding glass patio door that is a nightmare. Sigh. Well, I will call a Marvin rep too, just to see what they say, but I think the matching to the existing Pella windows will be the prevailing deciding factor.

  • Karateguy
    10 years ago

    1. Get a pella replacement sash. Easy choice.
    2. Replacement windows are far less than 5 lineal inches in width. Neither here nor there however, as your choice is as simple as option one. I have a low opinion of pella, but replacement sash is the obvious choice here.

  • PRO
    East Bay 10
    10 years ago

    Homesealed is correct. I did not take into account the existing sash. I checked the details on the Marvin replacement casement picture window and the frame dimension is 1 3/16" so the additional glass loss is 2 3/8" from the width from the existing. Sorry for the misleading post.

  • HomeSealed
    10 years ago

    No worries, easy mistake :)

  • PRO
    Windows on Washington Ltd
    10 years ago

    This is HomeSealed's real message eastbay...

  • PRO
    Out of the Woods Inc.- Window & Door Specialists
    10 years ago

    I guess I misread what you had originally posted. If you have pella replace it with a pella unless you're willing to pay to replace the entire window. Pella still does a roll formed clad sash unlike other major manufactures which sadly can lend itself to rot in some situations...

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    To follow up my OP - I just had someone come by to look at my windows. He is from a very reputable windows contractor which gets great reviews on angieslist and yelp. He was very professional and knowledgable. His company carries both Pella and Marvin. The only problem is that he said his company does not do sash replacement, only window replacement. He will be sending me a quote for window replacement.

    He said for sash replacement, I have to go to Pella. I didn't understand that, since he is a Pella authorized rep. I went on the Pella website, and I input my zip code to find the nearest Pella service location. I guess I have to call that place, right? Is it true that I must deal with Pella Service in order to get a sash replacement?

  • PRO
    Out of the Woods Inc.- Window & Door Specialists
    10 years ago

    I don't know how pella works but usually if you sell a product you are required to be able to service it, which includes sash replacement. I'd call that service number, they might be more equipped to help you. It will cost you less money to simply replace the sash.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, I spoke with Pella customer service today. They said I cannot do a sash replacement with the particular window I have. I have a circa-1991 Pella Pro-line window. Ugh - don't blame me, these awful windows came with the house.

    Anyway, Pella told me that their Pro-lines today use screws, while Pro-lines in 1991 were glued. So it won't be possible to get a replacement sash for my existing window. They said perhaps I could get a handyman-carpenter to replace the rotted part of the sash, but it will always look "repaired". Their recommendation was to replace the window with the current Pella Pro-line in order to match the rest of the windows. Although the Pro-lines' construction is different now from 1991, on the outside it looks identical.

    The contractor who came by yesterday is going to email me an estimate. He said he recommends I go to the next level up in Pella from the Pro-lines due to the lower quality of the Pro-lines. So ballpark he said that to replace one window would be "just under $1000", but if I replaced all 5 windows I'd get economies of scale. I am going to get a few more quotes just for the one-window replacement, as I thought $1000 sounded very high.

    This post was edited by Mrs_Nyefnyef on Wed, Sep 4, 13 at 20:16

  • Karateguy
    10 years ago

    Sounds about right to me, all things considered.

  • PRO
    Windows on Washington Ltd
    10 years ago

    $1,000 for a full frame wood replacement is not at all out of line with where you will find market pricing...especially given the fact it is one window.