Too narrow an aisleway at the ends of the island. Those are major bottlenecks. The raised countertop would probably be more useful if you stuck to single level island at counter height. Venting an island cooktop is about 3x-5x as expensive as one located on a wall, and even though you spend more money, it's not as effective as a wall vent. An island that size could really uses a prep sink on it to add functionality. Or, swap the cooktop and cleanup sink space, and the fridge with the wall oven. I think you'd have much better flow with the swaps, and you'd save money and have better ventilation.

Before I read the comments by LWO, I had the exact same concerns...Difficult venting and narrow aisles entering the kitchen at each end of the island. I'm worried about the whole aisle/hallway through to what looks like it might be the back door being too narrow, also.

Is there any chance that raised bar on the hallway side would end up becoming a drop-off place for mail, groceries, schoolbooks, etc? Family members have a tendency to use available flat surfaces. That could be quite dangerous right over the cooktop.

If that door below the pantry on the right happens to be the main entry from car parking, you'd probably really appreciate a dropoff counter directly into the pantry from the hall, with folding/sliding doors to close it off; and perhaps with the big door hinged to swing the other way?

Or in the process of making other changes, the pantry door could shift down to the other end of the wall...

My first thought is that there's too much blue and you're going to get sick of it *fast*.

But seriously, folks...how many in your family? It looks inconvenient to grab a snack or drink when coming from another part of the house...you've got to scootch through the cooking area to get to the fridge. A prep sink would help (the cook would probably cross the room less).

I don't think 40" aisles are terribly generous, but it beats the heck out of my current 28" bottleneck between peninsula and fridge. Still, it could get cramped in those aisles if you've got someone pouring drinks and somebody else setting the table and a third person cooking just as the meal is coming together. I agree w/ rhome that the raised bar over the cooktop could become a paper magnet -- dangerous!

Have you seen holligator's layout? You could do something similar-ish (not exact) and I think it might work well in your space (use wider aisles than now, though -- you'll still have a huge island). Check it out on the FKB.

OTOH, if you really like this layout, maybe just move the cooktop to the outer wall, move the fridge to the oven wall
(but don't put the oven next to the pantry door).

And I'm not sure what FTC cabinets are...but that pantry....ooh la la! I like it. Should be a nice space!

With that envy worth pantry do you really need floor to ceiling cabinets? I agree with other posters that the frig would be hard to get to for other family members unless you were planning on an undercounter beverage frig on the end by the table. HTH.

My first was how large is your family? Do you need a table to regularly seat 8 or is that with extension. You peninsula seating 4 creates a narrow path for someone to get to your frig. If you could shorten it, a couple of feet and seat 3 then I'd switch the frig to the end closet to the table on the wall where you currently have the sink then I'd swap the cleanup area with the cooking area.

If those are floor-to-ceiling cabinets in your pantry, you might want to consider one area that would have a counter to use as a landing spot for the grocery bags until you can unload them into the cabinets - unless you plan to use the chest freezer for that purpose.

Good luck with your kitchen!
Patti

Thank you all for your comments!
What do you think is a good width for the walkways? How about 48" instead of 40"?

I agree with you about the venting, the cooktop might have to be moved. Along those lines, how bad is it not to have a vent for a cooktop? My parents have had 2 cooktops in different houses, with no vents, and havent had any problems.

I never thought about the problem with stuff falling onto the cooktop, that would be a concern. I will look at re-arranging some of the appliances.

How do you think it would look to have the countertop where the cooktop is now all the same heighth, and still raise the one where the bar stools will be? Would that look funny?

Scootermom: how would i find holligator's kitchen pictures?

I would like to move the fridge, but im not sure where the best placement would be. Do you think i should switch it with the oven, or place it on the other side of where the sink is now?

Thanks again!

I'm not scootermom, but here is a link to some of holligator's photos and layout...

Holligator's kitchen

Holligator's kitchen isn't in the FKB yet, but here's a link that has her photos and a floor plan.

Here is a link that might be useful: Holligator Kitchen

Then again, sometimes your kitchen can be unique.
{{gwi:2107855}}

bmorepanic - I really like that design -- gets the refrig out of the traffic zone and has a really nice flow. The only thought I had was whether you would get tired of walking around the center island to get the dirty pots and pans to the main sink to wash them...

Patti

Aww, thanks for thinking my layout was worth recommending! :)

My concerns about the original plan were pretty similar to those posted. I'll add that I really prefer not to have counter seating back right up to table seating. It just seems like a mish mash of too many chairs and stools in too little space. When we have a crowd over and people stop to sit at the counter, they can still see and converse with people seated at the table, instead of having their backs to them. I really prefer it that way. I also like having the fridge more accessible to those outside my cooking area, so they don't get in my way.

So, since folks recommended something like mine, I played with yours a bit and came up with this version. You have a bit more space than I do, so you have some flexibility. This version required moving the pantry door to the other end, but that also seemed like a good way to make unloading groceries a bit more convenient (assuming that the door to the bottom left is an entry door). With such a huge pantry, you might also consider putting your toaster and microwave in there, perhaps near the entrance, with a little counter for breakfast/snack making. I've seen several examples of that here, and it seems like such a sensible idea.

The cabinets on the bottom wall would also be more flexible than mine, since you have that huge pantry and won't need the pantry space there. That would leave you some room for a message center and perhaps some decorative shelving or hutch-style cabinets. You could also make that area a wet bar. Lots of possibilities with all that space!

I just saw holligator's post, I wasn't familiar with their kitchen layout, but my recommendation was going to move the door to the pantry. My mom's door to the outside is at that location and I love the flow it gives the kitchen.

bmorepanic: I really like your design, it is totally different then anything we have considered before. Where is the main sink, under the window? Is that a prep sink in the 2nd island? What is that square you have in the main island supposed to represent?

holligator: I also like your plan. Thanks so much for the ideas. I will have to see what my DW thinks of them.

First island is seating and cleanup area. It can easily double as bar or buffet area. Little bit of wall cabinets on outside wall can be used for dish storage.

It takes the frequently accessed stuff and clusters it toward the outside edge of the kitchen (glasses, drinks, dishes, ref, micro). Ina pinch, can be another prep surface.

I like it for your space because:

• Great for entertaining and tribes of kids
• Efficent prep to cook with good access to ref and pantry
• Prep faces company or family and has an edge view outside

As bellrus pointed out, it doesn't have good access to dw from the cooking zone. An 18" potscrubber dw in the second island would solve that. I don't think it would lead to dw confusion, cause pots and prep tools and such like stuff would be stored in the immediate area.

The National Kitchen & Bath Association has a great web site. Consumers can log on and you can see the "Guidelines" to kitchen and/or bath design. Yes, there are guidelines we kitchen designers use when planning. There is specific guidelines regarding distances for walkways, heights of counter tops, etc. These are guidelines, NOT rules. You may want to check this out. www.nkba.org
In addition, remember that "form follows function". How you function in a space really is what creates your layout. Not all families are alike, not all cooks cook the same way. Try using the NKBA's kitchen questionnaire. Answer the questions and then think about your space, how YOU use it and what storage and counter top space requirements you'll have.
Just a little professional advice.

Better yet, take the Sweeby Test!

You've got a lot of space to work with and some great ideas already. I'd do some 'lifestyle analysis' to help you prioritize what's most important to you so you can begin to narrow things down. Questions to ask youself would include:

- How many cooks in the kitchen ideally? Doing what? In the future? How many non-cooks?
- How do you want to entertain? How often? In the kitchen? Outdoors?
- How do you cook? Bake? Microwave?
- What else do you do in the kitchen? Homework? Coffee/wine and conversation? School projects? Paperwork?

Try and boil it all down to a few clear statements so you can tell when you have a design that works well for you. For example, I wanted:

- A compact, functional space for the cook (cook's cockpit) that was visually open to the living areas and view, but also protected from cross foot-traffic.
- A comfortable and welcoming space for family members to visit with the cook and to do homework.
- A nice, flexible serving area (buffet) for casual entertaining.
- Fridge, sink, trash and dishes accessible to kids for table-setting and misc. without getting under the cook's feet.

After that, it got into specifics of storage and work space, but those were the details. The items above were the big picture.