I'm no artist or mathematician, but I love to research and study. I was excited about doing our reno not just because of the end result but also because I would get a juicy research project. Having to act as our GC ended up being much more of a research project than I anticipated though. I only have a BA, but I'm equating the reno to a PhD thesis. Or giving birth. Or having your eyeballs yanked out the back of your head with eyebrow tweezers through holes the size of a pin. No, all three at the same time.

Thank goodness for all the artistic types here. I don't have a good eye, plus I'm so buried in the managing the structure that I don't have much time to focus on the aesthetics. I get stuck on how something looks and can post and receive great advice. I could go on and on, but I need to get back to my symmetry issue on my upper cabs!

I'll say mine is a humanities kitchen. I'm in a numbers profession but have a humanities education. (Compromises were made in order to pay bills.)

I found GW years ago, but didn't start reading the function-related posts until after my cabinets had been ordered. I was much more concerned with the finishes and the look of the kitchen. I guess I'm lucky that it all turned out OK. (I do wish I'd gotten more drawers darnit!)

I am very able in both math and humanities, but I would say my kitchen is neither. It's wholistic. It's a Deusenberg. A marrying of high function with high form, efficiency and comfort, power and panache.

I'm in Technology, with a science+math background.

I see myself analysing my space from that perspective. For example, I often find myself liking color schemes with colors that are not too much in contrast, similar in intensities, found myself choosing a decor style that had clean lines because "otherwise my small space would look too cluttered", wanted to keep my color palette limited to "three or four colors so it did not look completely overwhelming".

I do not know if these are right assumptions. After all, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. And we have kitchen after kitchen of fabulous white cabs with soapstone (what can be more contrasting than black and white?) But I find that when I like something, I always always try to come up with some mathematical explanation on why it looks good!!

So one thing for sure is, when my kitchen happens it will be modern, clean lines, mostly warm color scheme and base drawers for sure! If I cannot afford them I'd rather postpone the kitchen remodel.

I always thought there was more to IT than just math and humanities. I think most of us here are actually more concerned with the SCIENCE. Harbors bacteria? Stains? Emits radon?

When y'all are saying "math", do you mean anything that uses math?

When you say "humanities" do you mean liberal arts?

I think this whole discussion lacks definitions.

I'm on that wavelength too but I propose we not try to define anything.

This question comes out of the other two posts about numbers and humanities. No definitions. Just an actual wondering if there is a difference. I didn't/don't understand why the other two questions were posted and so was just, simply, actually wondering. That's all.
Not looking to start an argument or get anyone's back up.
If this tone continues I will delete it or maybe the monitor will delete it for me.

I wonder if people who discuss how a space "feels" are less worried about the Math aspects and are more aware of something else. I have also wondered if there is a third pole besides the "humanities" (affective, highly personal, yet decor and other concepts rooted in traditions or rebellions) and the analytical (rational, cerebral, perhaps open to newer ideas that trump traditional for form or for "investment" reasons).

The third pole would be kinetic/physical and perhaps artistic. This one would be more than usually interested in human movement in the room, the color repeats, the sun patterns, the sounds and heating, the ways that people cluster or retreat, the piles of dishes and the movement of items into and out of the room, etc. [Those who observe patterns of postings when a critique is asked for will find that I often write from this vantage of thought when discussing a room.]

I don't understand any of these threads!

My first consideration is ease of cleaning and other functioning, so that would be the math side (also the lazy side). I have the same analytical thoughts about design as homey bird. And I want it to be elegant, like a good mathematical proof. But in choosing the finishes, I'm thinking "adagio," and that image comes from decades of ballet classes. So I guess I'm using both math and humanities.

hmmm, interesting concept. I'm a social sciences type...economics, government, history. And my kitchens (and homes) of choice have always been old and period inspired if not period accurate.

I would also interject that "instinctive" is often analytical but not in word borne conscious thought. In the same way that some people can pick up a ball, see the hoop, and intuit how to throw it in, others can learn analytically, to stand poised just so, hold the ball here, look at this portion of the goal, and apply this amount of force in that direction.

Similarly, while some people, whether math/science people or deconstructionists (though I seriously doubt the latter give due weight to context), are very analytical about what works in their kitchens, others can intuit where the window should be, the best location for the microwave, and which colors go together without being able to articulate, even in their own thoughts, why.

Blfenton, those two threads came out of the question of whether having an affinity for numbers and spatio-geometric analysis contributes to the kind of TKO that afflicts our members. When the numbers thread seemed to be only getting numbers responses, the humanities thread was started. I'd guess both threads have probably put off most people who don't have advanced degrees. Everybody who posts on this forum is educated enough to write in complete sentences. That is all that is required, and more, to create a wonderful new kitchen. I'd guess that besides the "Math" and "Humanities" people, there are a heck of a lot of folks who just think the whole discussion is silly.

But it's fun. :)

Oy.

As the instigator of the ruckus, let me explain and apologize.

I've long been struck by what seemed to me to be a preponderance of math-types on here. My fascination with the subject is an occupational hazard; I do this sort of thing for a living, on the rare occasion that I actually get it together to work and not fight with contractors and computer design programs. ;)

I've actually asked this question before but it sure didn't get this kind of attention. Who knows when and why something takes off.

Another pointed out that the title of my first post was potentially biasing in that it referred to numbers and in soliciting a count of numbers-oriented folks, might have scared away responders with different meanings from the get-go. That is, people who didn't 'like' numbers might never have opened up the thread and so it might just seem like there was a preponderance of math-types around.

So that person started a new, sister thread soliciting a count of "humanities"-types. To my surprise, that thread took off with at least as many responses as the first. Not exactly sure that this is a perfect test, but I, for one, was quite interested -- and surprised -- to see that indeed my title may have been biasing things; there may be as many "humanities"-types as "math"-types on here!

Anyway, that was the background to all this; I can't quite remember what originally jogged my memory to wonder again whether there were more math types around here, but that was what I was questioning. And now I'm thinking I could always, all along have been mistaken about this. There are any number of possible explanations for why there may appear to be more of one type than another but that title-theory sure caught *my* attention!

Definitely no one else needs to be interested in this. But a *huge* number of people have obviously completely enjoyed labeling themselves in this simplistic fashion. It's a self-labeling exercise so hopefully it shouldn't really irritate anyone too, too much. Please accept my apology if it's turning out to be offensive. It was never intended that way!

Take it all with a grain of salt please; YMMV.

:)

I think it's a fun exercise...we have one Math major and one Anthro major here, so the merging of the two worlds...

Count me with fori and blfenton as another who doesn't understand these threads. Who/what are "numbers people"? Engineers or financiers? Scientists or lawyers? Rich people or poor people? Don't understand.

Is anyone getting their kitchen for free? I doubt it. Ergo everyone here is a "numbers person" - they're all paying through the nose for their remodel. I suspect the only ones afraid to open these threads are the ones who've just paid some very big bills. ;-)

I'm an engineer - BS was a double major in Math and Physics; MS in Math and Electrical Engineering; PhD in Aerospace Engineering, working in a lab as an aerospace research engineer. I divide numbers by 2*pi all day long, take logs (log10 and loge) twice that often but I would consider myself far, far less of a "numbers person" than a banker or a businessman. I'm an analytical and work with analytic dynamics models all the time (which is where the divisions by 2pi or log power comes in) but balancing numbers sounds more like finance and financial distributions than analytics.

Which is why I think that *anyone* doing a remodel is a "numbers person". Unless you're getting your accountant to pay for your remodeling bills for you. ;-)

I haven't posted/commented in a long time, but this subject line caught my attention.

I interpret the original post as asking...right brain v left brain or is there a possibility of something in between.

In reading the replies, it seems that there is enough of a nice balance of the two in this forum to supply the needed support when and where it is needed...thereby resulting in many aesthetically pleasing, well functioning spaces.

Which as Martha would say...is a very good thing.

I think this thread is a Rorschach test. Those who don't understand the question are math people and those who do, and who are making up more replies in their heads as they read, are not.

I think the magnitude of the response to the math and humanities queries this time must be attributable to current sun spot activity.

Actually, I believe that your formal education has nothing to do with your real, innner talent. A lot of times career decisions are made based on practical considerations while the real interest and passion lies somewhere else. At other times, passion is discovered late in life, by which time you are established in a profession.

Therefore, definitely, Math type or humanities type is a leaning and not educational background. At least I took it that way.

Frankly, I thought this was nothing but some sort of "does the color you wear speak of your personality?" or "what does your zodiac sign say about you?" type discussion. Not necessarily real, but fun! It may sound overly silly to some.

Just my 2c.

The math people know exactly how far into the hole they have gone with their expenditures. They sought out the best workmen on Angie's List and attended every info session about the products they bought. They have documented the process in a spreadsheet.

The humanities people either have inherited the money from an eccentric aunt and are blowing it or they're in the hole and can't bring themselves to total up the costs and face facts. Meanwhile they're blogging the whole experience and have hopes of selling a screenplay about the their quarrels with vendors and the new kitchen's impact on their marriage.

Both have white kitchens, but the latter has a ceramic pig on the countertop and the former has halogen lighting.

florantha - rofl!!!!

Based on florantha's extremely amusing definitions - I am a math person but wish I had an eccentric aunt (not ceramic pig though). I know down to the Excel penny when and where I need to purchase. Reviews are attached and cross reference. Pictures are sorted by color coded file folders.

I did what homey bird said "If I cannot afford them I'd rather postpone the kitchen remodel" in order to save $ and do it right. Though I think I waited too long.

These discussions won't help reno a kitchen but they're fun! Redoing the heart of the home is stressful (at least for me) and this is a welcomed and appreciated respite.

florantha - ditto sallysue. That's hilarious.

I've been afraid to open this thread. Don't know why. Now I do.

My background is a BS in Logistics. Thus the spreadsheet with the timelines that only triggered laughter from my husband. It really wasn't that crazy. My dh kept asking for a "budget" (he's a math guy all the way--engineer), I did a "timeline budget"....not exactly what he wanted.

But I am also very "artsy" and creative. I really love the thought "inexpensive doesn't mean ugly". I've been very creative in creating a "pretty" kitchen on not such a BIG budget that works for us and surprises those that hear how much it cost.

As far as "doing research" and watching how humans hang out in our kitchen....I guess I did that too a little. I realized that during a party, they love to gather near the range! So I made sure to add a lot more space between the range and the island. Problem solved.

still don't really know what we are talking about.

:o

Florantha - LOL thank you!

I don't understand why people -- mostly *women* here, and including ME -- get SO invested in mostly meaningless nuances of kitchen modeling. I don't think represents a quest for flakier piecrusts. lol

What do you psych experts make of it? Kitchen = What?

Florantha, there is no pig on the counter in my humanities kitchen. I've never understood the counter pig thing. Maybe I have a math kitchen and I don't know it!

Sorry if I am posting too much; but after reading florantha's description of a math person's halogen light (actually, so true!) and spreadsheets, I remembered a "math kitchen" I saw during my house hunting.

When we stopped by the "for sale" sign, the owner walked over and asked if we wanted a tour of the house. We agreed. This guy had bought a fixer upper and fixed it during his 3-4 years in the house.

He proudly showed us a Subzero refrigerator ("I'm leaving this behind...look at the giant freezer. This thing alone constitutes 7K of my asking price; when I could have asked the same price and left a cheapo $500.00 fridge in here").

He proudly showed us the ceramic tile throughout the house, imported from Italy. I thought the color made the house look rather dark (or may be the house was rather dark) -- his comment: "This is a special ceramic tile where the pattern is not just screen printed on the surface, but is drilled into the entire tile using a special chemical technology called xxxx. As a result, if the tile dents, your original pattern will still show".

The original single bathroom, rather large, had been divided into two bare bone bathrooms, giving the house a much saught after 3/2 configuration, with expensive bathroom fixtures.

I could see the pride in all the fixtures he'd chosen but for some reasons those heavyweight gadegets just did not sing to me. FWIW, we made an offer on the house and ended up losing in the crazy bidding war characteristic for our area. (In our area, it is foolish to turn down a house in a good location, just for the sake of superficial looks). We are now in a house (Humanities?) with a dated kitchen and lots of other dated but cute touches, and a mature green yard -- which I personally like over what I saw in the Math house.

blfenton... i get your question, and i think it's a fun thing to talk about. :)

i have an engineering degree/background but i wanted to be a dance major! uh oh, my kitchen is turning out similarly confused!

florantha... you are a riot! ;)

I love this thread, so funny!

Mine is a 'math' kitchen, definitely 'left brain' if you prefer that analogy. I was working within a small footprint and had to cram a lot of equipment and 'wants' into the design, so was very organized, measured everything a zillion times, made lists, shopped everywhere for bargains. Wanted a clean, light, contemporary space after being in The Black Hole of Tiny Kitchens for 17 yrs. previous.

Yet after 20 yrs with this remodel, what I and everybody else responds to most is the hillside view out the windows. Big picture windows cover the entire width and height of the back wall/vaulted ceiling, so you see trees and hills, sky and clouds.

The 'logic' of the kitchen becomes a neutral backdrop for the 'artistic' ever-changing scenic view.

It's the lesson I learned from being a rabid book buyer. The spines are all different colors and lettering, so they look less overwhelming in white bookcases in the LR, compared to the gorgeous teak bookcases we use downstairs.

The eye doesn't like either extreme of too much or too little visual. That's why we talk so often about 'bling' and adding 'pops' of color - our eyes want a bit of contrast, some visual interest...but not too much.

Anyone know their Myers-Briggs personality type? Sparked by this thread, I am quite certain that the mental process used to wind up with my kitchen was influenced by my type. But is the end result a distinctly ENTJ kitchen...different in some significant way from say an ISTP kitchen?

For those of you who aren't familiar with M-B, don't fret. The question posed isn't worth pondering!

I don't think a Myers-Briggs label will help very much to explain what a kitchen looks like but it might explain the process of getting there.

INTP here. Apparently I should have been a man. I'm off the scale in theoretical thinking and cannot ever make up my mind. There's always one more avenue to explore. Explains why I mentally lived in at least 6 different proposed configs of the kitchen and why the new space does not resemble any of those fantasy kitchens. DH is practical, practical, practical but he really does like our final product. When the guy does all the actual work, even airheads know enough to say Thank You and let go of the airy fairy stuff.

Two things:

1. Homey_bird must live in the Bay Area because that description of the real estate market sounds very familiar.

2. I'm the same Myers-Briggs type as florantha. Yes, it took me 10 years to get around to re-doing a ridiculously dysfunctional kitchen. So?

Mine will be a literature major's kitchen all the way- lacking in practicality, not really going to be useful in the real world, but enjoyable to experience. Kind of like getting a degree in English lit ;)

Another INTP here...

Oh geez, is this still going on?! I disavow responsibility at this point! Bullseye, Sallysue and Florantha.

Being both full of beans and liking to count them (as well as eat and store them), I've tallied responses (can you say procrastination?) and will post anon. I really like the link of what's talking with whose posting.

mcmjilly,
Yes I do live in Bay Area, peninsula.

Yeah - looks like there's no other market quite like ours, eh? Not sure if it's a good or bad thing...

I'm an accountant by trade, and the LAST thing I want to do at home is work on budgets and numbers and stuff like that. I don't know what my kitchen cost to remodel, just saved and spent money as it was available - but that's not hard to do with a DIY project and being post kids.

However I'd say my kitchen is on the "math" side of the equation. Things are in logical order, and it's extremely functional to the point that even DH says it's now fun to cook in, and it's even easy to keep clean. But it isn't real high on the "looks" side. That is where the Accountant in me came in, I may have loved some other looks, but I could not justify the cost unless the good look also provided a better function.

I missed this thread!

I wasn't sure what this whole squishy question was about until I got to florantha's description! I guess I have more of a math kitchen. I have a BS in Biology and minors in English and History, and went on to get a medical degree. So, while I am numbers oriented, I have a significant humanities pull.

Now I know why I "get" so many of florantha's posts, I'm also one of the rare female INTP's!

As far as how this all played out in my kitchen design, I'm not sure. I guess I focused on kitchen function, but where the function didn't matter I went with finishes and designs that made my heart sing, without regard to resale value or general appeal.

So, I'm still a little confused, but happy:)

O.T Hi, Doonie! Hope you're happy! See you in INTP heaven, if we don't meet sooner!
-- F.

Oh. I was hoping someone would answer my question about what "Kitchen" *means* to you. Why so much angst over it, and usually only amongst women? "Heart of the Home" have anything to do with that?

I can only speak for myself. I have so much angst because not controlling every little detail resulted in several dissatisfactions and much wasted money with my bathroom remodel. Every day I see the problems and seethe. I'm trying to avoid seething in my new kitchen, which will cost twice what the bathroom cost. It matters most to me because I'm the housewife. I'm the one cooking family dinner almost every night, and I'm the one cleaning this room. I'm looking for efficiency and utility, but I want it pretty, too. Anyone else have some other reasons?

Chisue, what "kitchen" means to me is place to cook and otherwise prepare meals. No heart of the home, misty memories or any sentimental stuff. Doesn't keep me from being TKO. Like today, when I was noticing, for no important reason, how nice it was that there's room for two people to pass each side of my island, and how just having decent sized aisles, with plenty of open floor, makes my kitchen flow so well. Nothing extreme--48" in the work area, and 42" on the island sides. There's room to dance. Cooking is easy. Life is good. But it's a place for cooking. That's what a kitchen is to me.

chisue, I presume it's related to the same reason so many women angst over the various flaws and foibles of their husbands: I Am My Man Kitchen.

Well, I do fall for the heart-and-soul thing. I do believe you're pretty much what you eat. And I care so much about it that I have made it my profession and vocation and all the interstices in between-tion to be concerned about food.

So being fundamentally besotted with food it seemed almost a responsibility to follow through with a commensurate kitchen. I had no inkling becoming TKO came with this territory. In a court of law I would deny any leanings toward TKO, but I think there's just a lag period in self-awareness.

I love to cook, I love to eat. I could happily organize all political life around this principle (food).

I have no clue how this relates to my number-ness. Like many here I've yo-yo'd between "hard" and "soft" disciplines all my life. In truth design and planning seems a good locale for such flip-floppers. Kind of marries it all.

Then again there's no pig in my kitchen. There will likely be LED UC lights, if they're not xenon which strikes me as even harder-core (without knowing much about it ... yet).

I think a "humanities" kitchen needs that rocking chair in it. I think a "math" kitchen needs perfectly fitted drawers. I see absolutely no reason there cannot be complete overlap between tendencies.

I just erased a suggestion that would marry pig and lighting ... this is a family site!

Kitchen just means to me a room for cooking and food preparation. I was able to cook perfectly good food in some fairly ugly tiny apartment kitchens at the beginning of our marriage.

The angst is over the expense and the multitude of choices. Part of me always questions the expense/number side of the renovation. Is X or Y really worth this? I had several splurges in my kitchen. They were things I would look at everyday. I knew cost averages on everything from my TKO research, and I had to weigh the practicality of the item with the visual and textural pleasure that such an item would give me.

Then there are all the possible directions a kitchen can go stylistically. The angst comes over having to choose to go down one path and yet there are other paths that I haven't explored. So, I wonder what's down those paths that I missed out on. (I see glimpses of this when I see all of your beautiful finished kitchens on GW.) But once you start down a path, it's unidirectional. At each fork, the style choices become more restricted. Eventually, a finished product exists, but what if I had taken the other fork in road? That's where my angst arose. (Maybe I just need an infinite number of kitchens:)

Meanwhile, I can say that it does my soul good to live and cook in my new spaces. I still caress my Antique Brown leathered granite daily. And it makes me smile. But I also know that all of this stuff is fleeting and could be gone tomorrow. Carpe Diem!

Oh, and I got another small rooster for my hood! And cheers to Florantha!

Loved reading all the responses! It's so surreal to read them from TKO 'friends' while picturing the ceramic pig thread and comments each of you has made over the years.

Educationally and professionally, I am humanities. However, with the planning of the kitchens, I am all math. First and foremost is functionality while avoiding major layout changes, thus keeping costs in check. Beauty comes from the best choice for our budget within parameters already determined. Parameter = frameless maple in a warm stain. Beauty = door style with a bit of flair in one of the two lowest price brackets. The most expensive door does not light up my life here.

I am also in the camp of "I will pick several things that I love and together they will work in harmony for a beautiful overall look." DH is in the mindset of picking a single style (Transitional is most apropos) and then choosing things that fit into the style. However, he did sign off on an unexpectedly appealing floral-y crystal drum-shaped pendant for over the sink / in the garden window. A pop of whimsy in a warm, homey kitchen.