'Felix Jury' has a lot of the 'Lanarth' parent visible. To an extent Campbell magnolia ranges from more cold adapted white forms through pink ones into the purple versions like 'Lanarth', with there being somewhat of an implication that the less hardy, lower altitude origin forms have the deeply colored flowers because of coming from more of a rainforest environment, where flowering plants often employ strong colors to get noticed among all the foliage.

'Big Dude' was selected in Michigan and has hardy parents. (If you click on "B" and scroll down the page that opens afterward 'Big Dude' is near the beginning).

http://www.magnolia-society.org/checklist_ndx.html

Well at least 'Big Dude' is an impressive improvement over standard big-box store M. X soulangeanas, if that's what people want.
Andrea did you get your 'Atlas' at a local nursery in upstate NY? In contacting various mail order houses, I've determined that this magnolia is very scarce on the ground in the USA at the moment. There seem to be more of them in Canada, but maybe that company with cross border operations that seems to specialize in Magnolias introduced a few to select areas of North America...OR some upstate NY nurseries have a way to buy from Toronto based wholesalers. (which would certainly be logical if the bureaucracy wasn't too onerous: any plant pathogen would probably be naturally spread across that border in time, anyhow, so excessive quarantine requirements would seem unnecessary: but unnecessary never stops a wanton bureacrat so who knows)

(I think Duncan & Davies has operations in many countries around the world including US & Canada, but Reimer, Riemer(sp?) in WA is literally one company with two offices close to each other, but on either side of the US/Canadian border.)

Gossler Farms in Oregon. They're not offering it this year.

I've been longing for the Felix Jury for years while living in zone 4. Now I'm living in the Finger Lakes in USDA zone 5b/6a and am curious how it's doing for you, tree guy! I'd love to see pictures!!

I never found one for sale! I'll let you know if I do find it and try it though.

I'm going to make an omnibus single "spring pictures from my garden" post in a week or so, but I'll just slip this in now while the thread has been bumped. My 'Phelan Bright' bloomed essentially normally this year, although for some reason fewer buds were set than the last couple years. Most, but not all, plain old soulangeanas were ok around here, too, proving what I was saying earlier about how much later spring is here. When I'm down in the 202 I cannot believe how much further along spring is. At least a month with some plants, I'm sure.

some damage from the day of heavy rain we've had, but, I think when this is blooming heavily it will rival the 'Atlas'. Flowers are about 10" if you measure L petal to R petal...maybe will get a little bigger with time?

Also my 'Judy Zuk' which I am extremely pleased with. This is the not the wan yellow magnolias of yesteryear! More on this later in my upcoming post.

EDIT: I wonder if it doesn't color as well in maritime climates? This picture doesn't inspire much confidence: http://www.burncoose.co.uk/site/plants.cfm?pl_id=5409

david, I noticed this also with my Magnolia tree. There were less flowers than normal this spring. I think this happened because we had an early warm-up in winter which caused the Magnolias to start budding. When the cold returned in March it killed off some of the buds on the tree.

But that couldn't have happened with 'Phelan Bright' because it sets flower buds in fall and they are quite visible and distinct throughout the winter. This years there were just fewer of them. All of the ones there bloomed, though.

OTOH 'Judy Zuk' did not look like it would be in flower at all. The winter buds are all very small and tight. Only after they emerged did the fact some of them were flower buds become apparent.

Well after the warmup in the winter the buds on my Magnolia began to get larger as though it was going to flower. When the cold returned the buds stayed like that until april when the tree flowered. I could be wrong but my theory is that the cold damaged the buds that were closest to blooming on my Magnolia tree.

Here's a photo of my Magnolia tree from 1 year ago

Here's a photo taken 2 weeks ago.

Has anybody successfully grown 'Felix Jury' Magnolia in USDA zone 5 or 6? I broke down and ordered one from Monrovia, but this forum has me worried that I shouldn't have jumped the gun! Expensive tree if it doesn't ever bloom!

Hi i have a magnolia felix jury in Sweden. It has survived temperatures down too -25C

It has set several buds but since it is an early bloomer magnolia the frost nights have killed the flowers.

swe had really cold and terribel springs the last few years. Coldest april since 1944 it is still snowing here..m

I would say it is has hardy as Cleopatra, Genie and antje zandee that have behaved the same way as my Jury.

Per-Olof Andersson, that is promising you've had 'Felix Jury' survive -13F/-25C (no damage I hope?). I wonder if the early blooming nature would prevent it from flowering despite vegetative hardiness? I did plant a 'Cleopatra' magnolia last summer after discussions here on 'Felix Jury' being less likely to do well. It threw a random flower during the summer, which was beautiful. It survived our winter no problem and is leafing out, but we had a VERY mild winter. It didn't even hit 0F/-18C or below, which it typically does once or twice. I'm interested to hear how other's do with 'Felix Jury' over the next couple years with regard to flowering in colder zones!

andreainrochester - did your 'Felix Jury survive?

I'm also worried about late spring frost damaging the flowers, so I planted mine on a Northeast exposure hoping to delay budbreak a bit. It gets full sun until about noon, then part shade for the rest of the day until the evening. I'll try to remember to post on here next spring to see if it's blooming! Unfortunately, Monrovia sent it to me cross-country during terrible weather and the current year blooms all received frost damage.

What you want when using aspect in an attempt to reduce frost damage on early flowering plants like camellias and Sec. Yulania deciduous magnolias is morning shade. Eastern exposures with direct sun exposure starting early in the day are actually the worst ones for plants with this susceptibility. It is believed that if you can get frosted flowers of such kinds to thaw with the day's rising air temperatures, without being stuck directly by the sun beforehand they may not turn brown. Of course, on a day when it never gets above freezing it may be possible that vulnerable kinds of flowers may always be turned to pulp by the significant cold anyway - perhaps unless located where they are shaded throughout the day at that time of the year.

'Forrest's Pink' is mentioned as having more frost resistant flowers than usual.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=%20magnolia%20forrest%27s%20pink&qs=n&form=QBIR&sp=-1&pq=magnolia%20forrest%27s%20pink&sc=3-23&sk=&cvid=D3C9773EE4AA408BBED16E9230CACFAA

Unfortunately, my "Felix Jury" does not appear to have survived, but it was the drought we had here last summer rather than the mild winter which seemed to have done it in.

Sorry to hear that. I lost some trees after last summer's drought as well.

It's been a while since I commented. I have one friend who is a breeder of Magnolias as I stated above. He lives on the IL side of the Wabash River directly across from Terre Haute, IN. His non-success with Felix Jury I have stated.

Another plantsman friend in Columbia, MO. (zone 6) planted at least (3) 2-meter tall 'Felix Jury' within the parks of his city, and all were struck dead to the ground two winters ago. He's a dendrologist for the Oak society and head of the parks and rec department for his city.

Neither of these men are regular old gardeners. They are professionals. And besides, your/their results mimic one another. It's not real difficult for you or me or one of these guys who either breed magnolias and know everything there is to know about magnolias... or a guy who specializes in oaks to the extent that he can i.d. them from all over the earth .... to plant trees and have them survive if they are well cared for.

I think you guys are going to learn very fast that 'Felix Jury' does not have the genetics suited for zones less than steady zone 7's.

Dax

My jury has survived the following winters:

Not sure what zone that compares to in US standards

From what Per-Olof stated here, he's been successfully growing 'Felix Jury' where winters would put him at USDA zone 5, but isn't as successful with flowering. I'm worried more about the timing of flowering and hoping to delay that as much as possible. You might be right that for successful flowering, we may need to be in Zone 7. I'd be willing to live with the occasional year with no flowers, but am concerned it will be every year.

I'm wondering if there were compounding circumstances that led to the demise of the trees in Missouri that you mentioned - that was also the polar vortex winter, so maybe it was the timing and/or duration of the cold weather that did them in, or perhaps the young trees weren't established enough to survive a harsh winter. I was apprehensive about planting 'Felix Jury' but am dazzled enough by it to give it a go.

My hope with planting on a NE exposure is to delay flowering until the risk of frost has passed, not necessarily to limit frost damage if one occurs. If flowering is still early on a northern exposure, I may need to find a different spot for the tree.

"From what Per-Olof stated here, he's been successfully growing 'Felix Jury' where winters would put him at USDA zone 5"

I'm confused, those charts are showing a min of -18C. How does that indicate zone 5?

OTOH reports of a couple recently planted trees, in the midwest, just before the polar winter...would not in my opinion, establish 7a as the absolute minimum either. But it's probably a lot closer to 7a hardy than 5a or even 5b! (as I stated much earlier in this thread, regarding such Mag. hybrids of SW Chinese species...cf: " I suppose some could truly only be zn 7 hardy". What a long thread this has become!)

If you look at the fact they were grafted, for example, I'm just wondering if a relatively new graft union is more susceptible to winter damage? Andrea in Rochester, can you confirm your plant did leaf out before it died in the summer drought? And what temps had it seen before that?

If anything the remarkable picture of the blooming 'Atlas' showed that these plants can perform further north than is commonly assumed. Especially in places with properly chilly winters and springs. Maybe in a typical midwestern locale its flowers would freeze out most years.

(My jury is grafted on a kobusroot)

Doesn't matter Andersson....

I've been grafting for 13-years. Put it on anything hardy where the root is hardy and it's good to go. If the tree above the root is not hardy, then you end up with a dead tree & with a rootstock taking over. Or maybe the rootstock will not regenerate and you end up with nothing at all.

Katie, you missed that all of Andersson's temperatures are in Celsius. I converted from C to F. His winters are very mild.

Dax

I actually commented before I saw the temperature charts where he said they survived down to -25C

Since it was mentioned as a possible substitute, I can speak to the M. Daybreak as a great alternative. Ours has been in the ground 3 yrs, and while there are loads of full bloom M. out there, the Daybreak is only just now starting to open up. I'll post a picture of what it looks like right now.

Those later blooms and increased hardiness make a difference. Doesn't help if your heart is set on Felix Jury, but if it doesn't work ...

I think you guys are going to learn very fast that 'Felix Jury' does not have the genetics suited for zones less than steady zone 7's.

If that. With a strong structural influence of 'Lanarth' evident in examples I have seen presented to the market here I am not sure it is going to hold up well even in my part of USDA 8, in anything more challenging than sheltered woodland sites within view of salt water. The jumbo, large tepaled flowers and quickly large and floppy leaves - both appearing early in the season, when frosts and gales are still on the schedule - of the 5 gallon stock Monrovia has been sending up here make it hard to believe this tree can preform fully in a climate or on a site that is tough at all. One large independent Seattle area garden center, that has been receiving these for at least a few years now actually placed this year's allotment inside the same great big greenhouse where they display their annuals, perennials and citrus plants etc., to flower and leaf out in this totally frost and wind free environment.

Sorry Katie my thermometer registered that low temperature but the official temp from the weather services wasnt that low :)

This is the temp in April that have killed of most of my buds on my magnolias

Only survivors that might bloom is Amtethyst flame, leonard messel, Kobus, march til frost, susan, ballerina, yellow bird.

Cleopatra, big dude, antje zandee, genie, felix jury have lost all buds..

Butterflies, Yellow tulip, jc williams and my ledvina hybrid rosemarie x felix jury is to young for flowers. But no freeze back.

Thank you for that Per-Olof. That's more what I've been afraid of. Here average low temperatures in late March/early April are -4 C (26 F).

Well my amethyst flame is only 2 years old but based on my short experience it seems really hardy.

Maybe that could work as a felix jury substitute?

not the size but nice colour

Google picture:

That's right Embothrium. It's more suited for hot zone 8 areas and above. I suppose a 7b hot area like Washington D.C. would be fine.

Best regards, good luck Katie because you're going to need it just to keep it alive yet alone to bloom.

Dax

Oh 'Felix Jury'. So many words wasted on such a garish looking flower...

One of its parents, we have a picture of growing happily near Lake Ontario. ('Atlas') No, it's not a mature specimen, but it's not as though that area has random strings of winters that never dip below 15F! It is COLD there in winter. And certainly colder than the current climate in SW China where the parents of 'Atlas' hail from.

Another parent, was marketed for years by Wayside et al. as zone 6 hardy. In fact still is - even zone 5! ('Vulcan') Are we too assume that, generally unsatisfying as the plants may have been in some cases, Wayside was going to risk their reputation by having hundreds of them die each winter, alienating customers? Well, to some degree yes they take a gamble with a lot of things the offer. But it's not as though they are selling Eucryphia X 'Nymansay' as zone 6 hardy and suitable for areas from Chicago through Gainesville! It's safe to assume most of these plants are surviving where purchased, at least for a few years until the quasi-implied warranty runs out.

So the notion of it being any less than zone 7 is patently absurd. Even pure M. campbellii itself has always been listed by reputable references and sources as zone 7 hardy...even though, again obviously it may not perform well in most zone 7 gardens.

The being said...sheesh...it's just a plant. You can buy Embo's forecast of utter doom and gloom for any Magnolia bred from any Southwest Chinese/Himalayan cloudforest species in any climate but San Francisco, or you can just take the massive risk of $60 you'd otherwise put into your retirement savings, surely, and buy one to experiment with!

Also hope Embo has written a suitably angry missive to these people:

http://www.tesselaar.com/plants/jury-magnolias/felix/

Even I think zone 5 is a stretch!

I do quite like my line from a couple years ago: "Am I [to] believe these plants always have their flowers ruined, and the
arboretum keeps them in spite of never blooming
successfully...what...just to remind everyone of the wistful frailty of
life?"

I already have the 'Felix Jury' planted... I might see how it works in the next couple of years and complain to Monrovia if it proves to be not hardy. They claim zone 5, so if it doesn't survive in zone 6, then they shouldn't be advertising it that way!

Good luck Katie. Don't over-fertilize it (which probably means at all) which can reduce the hardiness of borderline plants.

I'd love to have a Magnolia 'Felix Jury' but I don't have any space in my backyard to plant one. Could I keep this tree in a container on my patio?

Thanks.

In response to Davidrt28- My 'Felix Jury' did leaf out last spring before the summer drought killed it. Our lowest temperatures were in February to -12 F.

I am new to this forum. Hello all. Enjoying your posts on Felix Jury as there is very little information anywhere about this beauty from gardeners in the US who have planted it. I bought a Felix jury in February 2017 from a garden center called Calloways. It was love at first sight! I live in McKinney, Tx. Zone 8a. My gardener plants it (west exposure) and it goes into shock for the next six months until this week! When we first planted it, all of the leaves that came out, when they came out, were black. The leaves on the tree were ravaged by the wind and my tree looked miserable in my yard for seven months. I thought it was going to die! Well, new buds started forming on it this week and it is leafing out! During the last seven months I have written to Monrovia and scoured the internet to find any info on it. Glad I found this garden forum. Anyone have any advice or is there anyone living in zone 8 that is growing one successfully? Are there other magnolia varieties you recommend for a small garden? Thank you.

I suppose it was in bloom in February?

I don't have specific advice beyond the usual for taking care of new plants...amateur mistakes are over-watering or over-fertilizing. Which in many cases means fertilizing at all, unless a test proves a deficiency in the soil. And also what could be called 'over-planting', meaning planting too deep, and/or nonsense like backfilling with improvements. (Which can superficially make a plant seem to get established more quickly, certainly, if your backfill is better than a particularly poor soil...but is always going to cause problems down the road!)

It is going to be prone to losing flowers in some years, due to late freezes. But that didn't stop Louisiana Nursery, not far from you in the grand scheme of things, from being the leading mail order source of magnolias including these Himalayan species from the 1970s-1990s. Unlike the Himalayan Rhododendrons, the Himalayan Magnolias don't have a problem with heat and humidity. (What's left of that is now called Durio Nursery btw, they sold the name Louisiana Nursery to someone else)

I hosted Ken and Belle during the 1980 Magnolia Society meeting in Seattle.

Can I grow Magnolia 'Felix Jury' in a container?

Will have to be a tub or planter big enough to house a tree of some size. And have enough volume to not freeze up like a brick.

Would a 25 gallon container be large enough?

Might work for awhile. This is a tree, with kind(s) in its background that grow over 60 ft. high. Also this large-parted variety needs to be located out of wind. The 5 gallon stock Monrovia sends to outlets here is seldom branching, like it shoots right up when fully stimulated, and in addition to having this feature of the Campbell Magnolia parent also presents the same impossibly fragile looking, jumbo young leaves and flowers. Ones that will have little ability to come through strong gusts of wind completely intact - as in the case of the leaves at least has already been demonstrated at an outlet here, as I related up-thread. And - along with those of other Yulania - appear in early spring, when gales are prevalent in my climate. This is also a time when damaging frosts may often occur.

I'm in USDA 8.

I see the Burncoose nursery web profile (generated in Britain) of this plant says it is hardy to 5 degrees F. Seems likely to me, although no observational basis for this determination is described on the same page.

Let's exhume this thread. I live in Spokane, Washington, zone 6, and the nurseries where I have worked since 2004 have been selling Jury magnolias, starting with 'Black Tulip', then 'Felix', and most recently 'Burgundy Star'. One thing I have noticed about these precocious magnolias is that once they break dormancy, they might as well be tropical. We would bring them in from zone 8 Oregon in bud/bloom, and they would get nailed by a moderate frost. For that reason, we started bringing them in in late summer to overwinter here, and the trees would then come out of dormancy later (only now starting to swell) and bloom later. We have cold nights compared to our days, sometimes 30 degrees cooler at night, and that seems to help hold things back. We INSIST that people who buy these trees site them where they will never see the morning sun and will be protected from wind (especially 'Felix'). I have refused to sell them when I have doubts about the buyer's location. I only know of two times when we have had to credit a customer for a loss, and only one of those was winter damage. The other was because someone forgot to tell the buyer not to mess with the roots much.

I think that people who live in climates where winters are relatively mild but have occasional, poorly timed freezes will have a harder time with this group then those of us who have a more consistently cool to cold winter climate where dormancy is prolonged.

On a side note, I have a recording of an episode of 'The Victory Garden' dating back to the late 80's (I think) with Peter Seabrook in Dunedin, New Zealand. He's visiting the garden of Nora Dunlop, who shows him her Pieris formosa var. forrestii 'Wakehurst' (zone 7) which was covered with fiery red new growth. He lamented his failures with this plant; the new growth emerging and invariably being burned by frost. That happens in his zone 8/9 garden in England!

"I think that people who live in climates where winters are relatively mild but have occasional, poorly timed freezes will have a harder time with this group then those of us who have a more consistently cool to cold winter climate where dormancy is prolonged."

Yes, completely agree. You may not know but one of the largest private collections of Magnolias in the country suffered a devastating loss in a late spring 2007 freeze. That was in North Carolina where winter lows barely scrape freeze unlike yours. The guy's name escapes me at the moment but I've probably posted it here before. EDIT: I should clarify here, I mean the plants were KILLED. Down to the graft union. Not just the flowers! It got down to <27F after weeks in the 70s - the plants were in full leaf and succulent new growth. Oddly timely because we are having a late cold spell and I wonder how it's going to impact my Gresham-type magnolias, all of which are at various stages just before 'fully open'. I think the ones still covered with fuzz will be ok.

Winters in China, because of the Siberian High, tend to be more stable that ours. This also explains why we never hear of Beijing being slammed by a nor'easter with 2 feet of snow as you do with major east coast cities of the US.

And yes England's climate - although generally similar to the US PNW climate - is different in various ways, including a much greater propensity for late spring freezes. This is one reason, although not the only one, why hazelnuts are a commercial crop in Oregon but are not in the UK. BTW you should post that Victory Garden episode to youtube! Peter Seabrook ogling rare plants around the world is one reason I got into them!

Since this thread is revived, I'll chime in too! I bit the bullet last year and decided to give 'Felix' a try. I planted two, three foot tall grafted plants last spring so they would have the summer to establish. They settled in well and grew ~8" their first summer with me. They're too small to flower, but all stems and vegetative buds appear green and supple/healthy. No signs of breaking bud on either of them. This winter was not a good test of vegetative cold hardiness as it was mild, and we did not go below 0F. I sited the plants on the north side of my house where it is also shaded to the east by a spruce tree. It will not receive morning sun but should receive mid day and evening sun once it grows tall enough to escape the house's shadow (a ranch). I'm hoping this siting will help delay flower bud break once old enough to bloom. My other magnolias ('Genie', x soulangeana, denudata 'Gere', kobus var. borealis, and 'Ceopatra') are all ahead of schedule this year as we had some abnormally early warm temps (60's to almost 70F a few times) this past month. I am seeing evidence of the flower buds starting to swell right now, which usually doesn't happen until mid-April. We usually reach peak bloom on the magnolias I listed above during the last week of April to the first week or two of May. Some years we get peak bloom on Mother's Day, which is always special! This will be the first year my 'Cleopatra' is large enough to flower, and has 4 flower buds on it. I'm looking forward to that one's large dark pink flowers too!