It's been a while since I commented. I have one friend who is a breeder of Magnolias as I stated above. He lives on the IL side of the Wabash River directly across from Terre Haute, IN. His non-success with Felix Jury I have stated.

Another plantsman friend in Columbia, MO. (zone 6) planted at least (3) 2-meter tall 'Felix Jury' within the parks of his city, and all were struck dead to the ground two winters ago. He's a dendrologist for the Oak society and head of the parks and rec department for his city.

Neither of these men are regular old gardeners. They are professionals. And besides, your/their results mimic one another. It's not real difficult for you or me or one of these guys who either breed magnolias and know everything there is to know about magnolias... or a guy who specializes in oaks to the extent that he can i.d. them from all over the earth .... to plant trees and have them survive if they are well cared for.

I think you guys are going to learn very fast that 'Felix Jury' does not have the genetics suited for zones less than steady zone 7's.

Dax

My jury has survived the following winters:

Not sure what zone that compares to in US standards

From what Per-Olof stated here, he's been successfully growing 'Felix Jury' where winters would put him at USDA zone 5, but isn't as successful with flowering. I'm worried more about the timing of flowering and hoping to delay that as much as possible. You might be right that for successful flowering, we may need to be in Zone 7. I'd be willing to live with the occasional year with no flowers, but am concerned it will be every year.

I'm wondering if there were compounding circumstances that led to the demise of the trees in Missouri that you mentioned - that was also the polar vortex winter, so maybe it was the timing and/or duration of the cold weather that did them in, or perhaps the young trees weren't established enough to survive a harsh winter. I was apprehensive about planting 'Felix Jury' but am dazzled enough by it to give it a go.

My hope with planting on a NE exposure is to delay flowering until the risk of frost has passed, not necessarily to limit frost damage if one occurs. If flowering is still early on a northern exposure, I may need to find a different spot for the tree.

"From what Per-Olof stated here, he's been successfully growing 'Felix Jury' where winters would put him at USDA zone 5"

I'm confused, those charts are showing a min of -18C. How does that indicate zone 5?

OTOH reports of a couple recently planted trees, in the midwest, just before the polar winter...would not in my opinion, establish 7a as the absolute minimum either. But it's probably a lot closer to 7a hardy than 5a or even 5b! (as I stated much earlier in this thread, regarding such Mag. hybrids of SW Chinese species...cf: " I suppose some could truly only be zn 7 hardy". What a long thread this has become!)

If you look at the fact they were grafted, for example, I'm just wondering if a relatively new graft union is more susceptible to winter damage? Andrea in Rochester, can you confirm your plant did leaf out before it died in the summer drought? And what temps had it seen before that?

If anything the remarkable picture of the blooming 'Atlas' showed that these plants can perform further north than is commonly assumed. Especially in places with properly chilly winters and springs. Maybe in a typical midwestern locale its flowers would freeze out most years.

(My jury is grafted on a kobusroot)

Doesn't matter Andersson....

I've been grafting for 13-years. Put it on anything hardy where the root is hardy and it's good to go. If the tree above the root is not hardy, then you end up with a dead tree & with a rootstock taking over. Or maybe the rootstock will not regenerate and you end up with nothing at all.

Katie, you missed that all of Andersson's temperatures are in Celsius. I converted from C to F. His winters are very mild.

Dax

I actually commented before I saw the temperature charts where he said they survived down to -25C

Since it was mentioned as a possible substitute, I can speak to the M. Daybreak as a great alternative. Ours has been in the ground 3 yrs, and while there are loads of full bloom M. out there, the Daybreak is only just now starting to open up. I'll post a picture of what it looks like right now.

Those later blooms and increased hardiness make a difference. Doesn't help if your heart is set on Felix Jury, but if it doesn't work ...

I think you guys are going to learn very fast that 'Felix Jury' does not have the genetics suited for zones less than steady zone 7's.

If that. With a strong structural influence of 'Lanarth' evident in examples I have seen presented to the market here I am not sure it is going to hold up well even in my part of USDA 8, in anything more challenging than sheltered woodland sites within view of salt water. The jumbo, large tepaled flowers and quickly large and floppy leaves - both appearing early in the season, when frosts and gales are still on the schedule - of the 5 gallon stock Monrovia has been sending up here make it hard to believe this tree can preform fully in a climate or on a site that is tough at all. One large independent Seattle area garden center, that has been receiving these for at least a few years now actually placed this year's allotment inside the same great big greenhouse where they display their annuals, perennials and citrus plants etc., to flower and leaf out in this totally frost and wind free environment.

Sorry Katie my thermometer registered that low temperature but the official temp from the weather services wasnt that low :)

This is the temp in April that have killed of most of my buds on my magnolias

Only survivors that might bloom is Amtethyst flame, leonard messel, Kobus, march til frost, susan, ballerina, yellow bird.

Cleopatra, big dude, antje zandee, genie, felix jury have lost all buds..

Butterflies, Yellow tulip, jc williams and my ledvina hybrid rosemarie x felix jury is to young for flowers. But no freeze back.

Thank you for that Per-Olof. That's more what I've been afraid of. Here average low temperatures in late March/early April are -4 C (26 F).

Well my amethyst flame is only 2 years old but based on my short experience it seems really hardy.

Maybe that could work as a felix jury substitute?

not the size but nice colour

Google picture:

That's right Embothrium. It's more suited for hot zone 8 areas and above. I suppose a 7b hot area like Washington D.C. would be fine.

Best regards, good luck Katie because you're going to need it just to keep it alive yet alone to bloom.

Dax

Oh 'Felix Jury'. So many words wasted on such a garish looking flower...

One of its parents, we have a picture of growing happily near Lake Ontario. ('Atlas') No, it's not a mature specimen, but it's not as though that area has random strings of winters that never dip below 15F! It is COLD there in winter. And certainly colder than the current climate in SW China where the parents of 'Atlas' hail from.

Another parent, was marketed for years by Wayside et al. as zone 6 hardy. In fact still is - even zone 5! ('Vulcan') Are we too assume that, generally unsatisfying as the plants may have been in some cases, Wayside was going to risk their reputation by having hundreds of them die each winter, alienating customers? Well, to some degree yes they take a gamble with a lot of things the offer. But it's not as though they are selling Eucryphia X 'Nymansay' as zone 6 hardy and suitable for areas from Chicago through Gainesville! It's safe to assume most of these plants are surviving where purchased, at least for a few years until the quasi-implied warranty runs out.

So the notion of it being any less than zone 7 is patently absurd. Even pure M. campbellii itself has always been listed by reputable references and sources as zone 7 hardy...even though, again obviously it may not perform well in most zone 7 gardens.

The being said...sheesh...it's just a plant. You can buy Embo's forecast of utter doom and gloom for any Magnolia bred from any Southwest Chinese/Himalayan cloudforest species in any climate but San Francisco, or you can just take the massive risk of $60 you'd otherwise put into your retirement savings, surely, and buy one to experiment with!

Also hope Embo has written a suitably angry missive to these people:

http://www.tesselaar.com/plants/jury-magnolias/felix/

Even I think zone 5 is a stretch!

I do quite like my line from a couple years ago: "Am I [to] believe these plants always have their flowers ruined, and the
arboretum keeps them in spite of never blooming
successfully...what...just to remind everyone of the wistful frailty of
life?"

I already have the 'Felix Jury' planted... I might see how it works in the next couple of years and complain to Monrovia if it proves to be not hardy. They claim zone 5, so if it doesn't survive in zone 6, then they shouldn't be advertising it that way!

Good luck Katie. Don't over-fertilize it (which probably means at all) which can reduce the hardiness of borderline plants.

I'd love to have a Magnolia 'Felix Jury' but I don't have any space in my backyard to plant one. Could I keep this tree in a container on my patio?

Thanks.

In response to Davidrt28- My 'Felix Jury' did leaf out last spring before the summer drought killed it. Our lowest temperatures were in February to -12 F.

I am new to this forum. Hello all. Enjoying your posts on Felix Jury as there is very little information anywhere about this beauty from gardeners in the US who have planted it. I bought a Felix jury in February 2017 from a garden center called Calloways. It was love at first sight! I live in McKinney, Tx. Zone 8a. My gardener plants it (west exposure) and it goes into shock for the next six months until this week! When we first planted it, all of the leaves that came out, when they came out, were black. The leaves on the tree were ravaged by the wind and my tree looked miserable in my yard for seven months. I thought it was going to die! Well, new buds started forming on it this week and it is leafing out! During the last seven months I have written to Monrovia and scoured the internet to find any info on it. Glad I found this garden forum. Anyone have any advice or is there anyone living in zone 8 that is growing one successfully? Are there other magnolia varieties you recommend for a small garden? Thank you.

I suppose it was in bloom in February?

I don't have specific advice beyond the usual for taking care of new plants...amateur mistakes are over-watering or over-fertilizing. Which in many cases means fertilizing at all, unless a test proves a deficiency in the soil. And also what could be called 'over-planting', meaning planting too deep, and/or nonsense like backfilling with improvements. (Which can superficially make a plant seem to get established more quickly, certainly, if your backfill is better than a particularly poor soil...but is always going to cause problems down the road!)

It is going to be prone to losing flowers in some years, due to late freezes. But that didn't stop Louisiana Nursery, not far from you in the grand scheme of things, from being the leading mail order source of magnolias including these Himalayan species from the 1970s-1990s. Unlike the Himalayan Rhododendrons, the Himalayan Magnolias don't have a problem with heat and humidity. (What's left of that is now called Durio Nursery btw, they sold the name Louisiana Nursery to someone else)

I hosted Ken and Belle during the 1980 Magnolia Society meeting in Seattle.

Can I grow Magnolia 'Felix Jury' in a container?

Will have to be a tub or planter big enough to house a tree of some size. And have enough volume to not freeze up like a brick.

Would a 25 gallon container be large enough?

Might work for awhile. This is a tree, with kind(s) in its background that grow over 60 ft. high. Also this large-parted variety needs to be located out of wind. The 5 gallon stock Monrovia sends to outlets here is seldom branching, like it shoots right up when fully stimulated, and in addition to having this feature of the Campbell Magnolia parent also presents the same impossibly fragile looking, jumbo young leaves and flowers. Ones that will have little ability to come through strong gusts of wind completely intact - as in the case of the leaves at least has already been demonstrated at an outlet here, as I related up-thread. And - along with those of other Yulania - appear in early spring, when gales are prevalent in my climate. This is also a time when damaging frosts may often occur.

I'm in USDA 8.

I see the Burncoose nursery web profile (generated in Britain) of this plant says it is hardy to 5 degrees F. Seems likely to me, although no observational basis for this determination is described on the same page.

Let's exhume this thread. I live in Spokane, Washington, zone 6, and the nurseries where I have worked since 2004 have been selling Jury magnolias, starting with 'Black Tulip', then 'Felix', and most recently 'Burgundy Star'. One thing I have noticed about these precocious magnolias is that once they break dormancy, they might as well be tropical. We would bring them in from zone 8 Oregon in bud/bloom, and they would get nailed by a moderate frost. For that reason, we started bringing them in in late summer to overwinter here, and the trees would then come out of dormancy later (only now starting to swell) and bloom later. We have cold nights compared to our days, sometimes 30 degrees cooler at night, and that seems to help hold things back. We INSIST that people who buy these trees site them where they will never see the morning sun and will be protected from wind (especially 'Felix'). I have refused to sell them when I have doubts about the buyer's location. I only know of two times when we have had to credit a customer for a loss, and only one of those was winter damage. The other was because someone forgot to tell the buyer not to mess with the roots much.

I think that people who live in climates where winters are relatively mild but have occasional, poorly timed freezes will have a harder time with this group then those of us who have a more consistently cool to cold winter climate where dormancy is prolonged.

On a side note, I have a recording of an episode of 'The Victory Garden' dating back to the late 80's (I think) with Peter Seabrook in Dunedin, New Zealand. He's visiting the garden of Nora Dunlop, who shows him her Pieris formosa var. forrestii 'Wakehurst' (zone 7) which was covered with fiery red new growth. He lamented his failures with this plant; the new growth emerging and invariably being burned by frost. That happens in his zone 8/9 garden in England!

"I think that people who live in climates where winters are relatively mild but have occasional, poorly timed freezes will have a harder time with this group then those of us who have a more consistently cool to cold winter climate where dormancy is prolonged."

Yes, completely agree. You may not know but one of the largest private collections of Magnolias in the country suffered a devastating loss in a late spring 2007 freeze. That was in North Carolina where winter lows barely scrape freeze unlike yours. The guy's name escapes me at the moment but I've probably posted it here before. EDIT: I should clarify here, I mean the plants were KILLED. Down to the graft union. Not just the flowers! It got down to <27F after weeks in the 70s - the plants were in full leaf and succulent new growth. Oddly timely because we are having a late cold spell and I wonder how it's going to impact my Gresham-type magnolias, all of which are at various stages just before 'fully open'. I think the ones still covered with fuzz will be ok.

Winters in China, because of the Siberian High, tend to be more stable that ours. This also explains why we never hear of Beijing being slammed by a nor'easter with 2 feet of snow as you do with major east coast cities of the US.

And yes England's climate - although generally similar to the US PNW climate - is different in various ways, including a much greater propensity for late spring freezes. This is one reason, although not the only one, why hazelnuts are a commercial crop in Oregon but are not in the UK. BTW you should post that Victory Garden episode to youtube! Peter Seabrook ogling rare plants around the world is one reason I got into them!

Since this thread is revived, I'll chime in too! I bit the bullet last year and decided to give 'Felix' a try. I planted two, three foot tall grafted plants last spring so they would have the summer to establish. They settled in well and grew ~8" their first summer with me. They're too small to flower, but all stems and vegetative buds appear green and supple/healthy. No signs of breaking bud on either of them. This winter was not a good test of vegetative cold hardiness as it was mild, and we did not go below 0F. I sited the plants on the north side of my house where it is also shaded to the east by a spruce tree. It will not receive morning sun but should receive mid day and evening sun once it grows tall enough to escape the house's shadow (a ranch). I'm hoping this siting will help delay flower bud break once old enough to bloom. My other magnolias ('Genie', x soulangeana, denudata 'Gere', kobus var. borealis, and 'Ceopatra') are all ahead of schedule this year as we had some abnormally early warm temps (60's to almost 70F a few times) this past month. I am seeing evidence of the flower buds starting to swell right now, which usually doesn't happen until mid-April. We usually reach peak bloom on the magnolias I listed above during the last week of April to the first week or two of May. Some years we get peak bloom on Mother's Day, which is always special! This will be the first year my 'Cleopatra' is large enough to flower, and has 4 flower buds on it. I'm looking forward to that one's large dark pink flowers too!

Any further updates on Felix Jury or other deep colored Magnolia cultivars (Burgundy Star, Vulcan, etc.) in colder zones like 5-6?

Oh lawd. This thread. At least Embo has retired from rattling his chains around here.

I don't have anything specific about Felix Jury et al, because I don't care for 'deep colored' magnolias.

That being said, the parent 'Atlas' is blooming for me, and looks great, and like it's supposed to look. Ridiculously huge flowers...like the picture from NY State above, but maybe a bit darker. But it doesn't resemble what I remember it looking like at Sonoma Horticultural Nursery. Either his was mislabeled, or something about that climate was not to its liking, in spite of it being way milder. Conversely (standby, it will make sense...) I'm reminded of the 'Vulcan' I saw in Newark, Delaware that looked hideous...nothing like pictures I've seen online. Are this many people/institutions inadvertently letting the rootstock take over the top? Or do some of these fancy magnolia hybrids really look vastly different depending on climate and weather? I'm not going to worry about it! My garden now has 3 superior alternative to soulangeanas, - Tino Durio, Phelan Bright, and Atlas, which all compliment one another.

I bit the bullet and planted one three years ago with a second one coming in the mail this summer. My first one is about 7 feet tall now, but too young to assess flowering. The plant itself has shown no winter hardiness issues for me so far. It sailed through multiple continuous weeks below freezing (night and day) with occasional lows in the -5 to -7F range without issue, but hasn't experienced a bad winter yet (lows of -10 to -12F). I'm hoping it sets its first flower buds this year for next spring. Due to its parentage, I fully understand this is a borderline tree for reliable flowering in my climate. If the tree survives well but gets its flower buds blasted four out of five years, I'm ok with that. The fifth year with a great flower display would be worth it for me. I'm growing it for the novelty and not as a reliable show specimen. There are an absolute ton of star and saucer magnolias around here, and they put on a reliable heavy flower display every spring, but I was looking for something more unique.

davidrt28 - Atlas is on my list to find too! I have read that some of the NZ hybrids seem to produce drastically different colored flowers based on the climate and tree's age. Maybe that's what you're noticing?

Hi treeguy, It's nice to see you're still around. Yeah, the different colored flowering seems to be a feature of these that's been discussed for a long time now, at least since Vulcan came out in the 1990s. My 'Atlas' had to get about 7' tall before it set buds so hopefully yours has settled in, too.

FWIW, Abbie Jury is reporting that they have an improved 'Vulcan'. We'll see how it does in the North American climate - not exactly something they can test in New Zealand! https://jury.co.nz/2025/03/23/new-jury-magnolias/

Thanks to davidrt28 and treeguy for returning to the old thread! Appreciate hearing your experiences, Treeguy. I have heard about the new round of Jury Magnolias as well and am keen to see how they do in the USA once they are able to arrive here. Thanks David for the tips on other great options.

We brought 2 10-gallon Felix magnolias as well as Black Tulips back in September to over winter in our holding bed, so they would be on Spokane, WA time for spring sales. I am happy to report the trees came through beautifully after experiencing temperatures a few degrees below zero in February. Although the winter up to that point was a zone 8, the descent to the lowest temperatures was gradual. The winter of '23-'24 was also mild, with much warmer temperatures in December and January than this year. But in the second week of January the bottom suddenly dropped out with four consecutive nights below zero (-5F, -8F, -2F, -2F). The flower buds on both Felix and Black Tulip were killed, but the trees themselves were fine! Also, flower buds on peaches, flowering plums, flowering cherries (except 'Kwanzan') and apricots were killed. Even forsythia buds were killed, which hasn't happened here since the 60's!

At least Embo has retired from rattling his chains around here.

I fail to see the value of repeatedly making personal remarks clearly intended to be offensive on a gardening forum - what do you imagine this adds to the discussion?

Man, oh man, I read through this whole sucker again tonight. I've analyzed it for points in all areas and the adjudication is complete: it's the ultimate Gardenweb thread of all time. It is hereby awarded the Platinum Spike!

As SNL's Stefon might say, it has EVERYTHING:

New contributors who actually contributed something useful!

Allusions to grexes

Siberian Highs

Michael in Spokane who I don't know but I remember for his witty contributions to other, now defunct forums!

Plant breeders named 'Jury' - but who is the judge!?

Multiple thread bumps and revivals that actually made sense!!!

Someone mentioning Peter Seabrook other than me ;-)

Plants named 'Felix'

European correspondents reporting on European freezes, mit Zeitbereichsdiagrammen!

Davidrt28 being archly self-congratulatory

No excessive moderation!

Even more freezes, bbbrrr (Stefon warms his hands with his breath)

Flowers

Zones of many nations!

and last but not least, doom and gloom from our beloved resident doomer.

Embothrium, it’s nice to hear from you. Agree or disagree, you undoubtably know plants, and I wish you’d get back to sharing it with us.

And here it is, the Topic of this thread. 'Felix', on April 9th. The first bloom of the four trees we have at work.

Thank you Michael! I'm reminded of UK plantsman Bob Brown's celebrated review of Senecio pulcher.

Good luck with those trees.

Zone 6 here…planted Felix Jury last spring and it died (I assume) over winter. It’s May and no signs of life.

Kyle, sorry to hear that.
Mine was doing great, about 7 feet tall from an initial 2 foot plant. Last summer we had a bad drought and our water was shut off due to construction. My Felix Jury was one of the losses due to drought stress by the end of the summer. I have two in pots that I'm planting on the property this year. Hopefully with better end results since I hadn't had any winter damage previously!

Lord have mercy. This thread again.

It was a hard winter AND spring. I lost a Japanese maple _I PLANTED IN LATE MARCH_ to the freezes that followed. It appears as though one of them caused the graft union to fail. I've never had that happen in my history of gardening. So a recently planted FJ in zone 6, with a colder than normal winter assuming poster is in eastern US which is a good bet, might not have been established enough to survive. I would still propose that, with accounts of them reaching semi-maturity in places like the Lake Ontario region, as well as growing in colder parts of Poland and Germany which I believe I've spotted on Instagram, the majority of these 'Gresham type'* magnolias, as I call them, are probably at least zone 6b hardy. "Zone 6" in even the eastern US would encompass a vast range of varying climates. Look at Tennessee, where winters are so unpredictable and unstable that CRYPTOMERIAS have been severely damaged or killed in recent years! So I could, for example, easily imagine a Felix Jury would grow to maturity in 6b at Moraine Farm in Beverly, MA, but be killed back to the graft union (i.e. killed) in 6b Tennessee. (I say this because I vaguely, vaguely remember seeing some possibly interesting deciduous mags planted at Moraine, but it was well over 15 years ago and I have no idea what they were, or if they are still there. There is, or was, a huge Umbrella Pine there, maybe the biggest I've seen including the one at Villa Taranto)

* - perhaps 'Cornish type' would be a fairer term, because that was the first place interspecific hybrids of those SW Chinese deciduous Magnolias were made. Followed by Gresham, then the Durios in Bayou Country and Juries (LOL) in NZ.

I noticed a weird Gardenweb/Houzz glitch. Embo's last comment doesn't appear in his actual comment history. Yes, I was checking if it was one of the last he bothered to make here! Anyhow "I fail to see the value of repeatedly making personal remarks clearly intended to be offensive on a gardening forum - what do you imagine this adds to the discussion?" was pretty rich coming from someone who attacked one of my posts about an Acer griseum at Udel...a plant I'd literally seen with my own eyes...months after I posted it...while I was taking a break from the forum, saying my contributions here were worthless, only for that comment to later be deleted, either at his request, or someone else's. I've often praised his contributions - whereas that was of course never reciprocated - only saying, at times, that his posts could be too pessimistic.

UpperBayGardener - yes, we're back to discussing zone pushing with M. 'Felix Jury'! :P

Thank you for your input though. You are very accurate with "zone 6" being a different climate depending on the geographic location. I have the moderating influence of lake Erie as I am ~12 miles due east of the shores of lake Erie in the Buffalo, NY area. This moderation allows me to grow some things that may not survive a zone 6 climate elsewhere in the country. It's why I am giving Felix Jury a try again since my loss last year was drought induced and not a cold hardiness issue. The tree leafed out and had almost a foot of growth on it before the drought hit. I lost a handful of other established trees/shrubs last summer because of the drought as well.

Good luck. That's a shame about the drought. I have to thank my lucky stars that so far, although I had to do a lot of watering in the past couple years, it wasn't as bad here as it might have been. Nothing establised was hurt. Of course, we are off to a terrible start this year! Hopefully something causes the pattern to change soon.

I just read through this sucker again. It really is the ultimate GW thread LOL. To me anyhow.

Treeguy do you still have a Pinus armandii? Sorry to give you "Pinus envy" (haha) but I can easily top that...I have two Pinus hwangshanensis! Just edit your reply when ready, I'm trying to keep the # of posts down. GW's software/CDN is handling long threads less and less well.

Thanks, fingers crossed! We've had the opposite spring here so far; one of the wettest on record.