Shuffles, those look mouth watering, I'm finding I really like the greasy varieties of beans. I grew Tennessee Cutshorts again this year, the beans were spaced out in their pods. Macmex says they aren't really a cutshort but the first year I grew them they definitely grew like cutshorts, crowded in the pod, this year they didn't. Possibly the type of growing season I had?

Annette

Annette, I haven't grown Tennessee Cutshorts yet, but they are in my arsenal for next year - one of about eight varieties of pole beans planned for my 100 feet of row.

Annette, I don't think Tennessee Cutshort will ever be a true cutshort. Wasn't that Frank Barnett Cutshort that you showed the picture of?

Dick, that first picture was what I had been given as Tennessee Cutshort, the ones I grew this year were from seed collected from them. I've never grown Frank Barnett, I hope to next year, do a comparison.

Annette

Annette, I showed the photo to Frank and he thought it was his bean. I have grown Tennessee Cutshort every year for years including this year and it has never looked anything like your photo. I wonder if Happyday mislabeled the seed.

I have Tennessee Cutshort from George and am getting Frank Barnett Cutshort from Frank and plan to grow them side by side too. According to George they are both have similar excellent eating qualities.

Shuffles I have grown a number of beans with "cutshort" in their name and so far none of them were.

And now there is Margaret Best Greasy Cutshort to try..... Dick

You may be right Dick, I will be doing a comparison next year, I'll grow a few side by side and look for any noticeable differences. Still it doesn't explain why the second time I grew seed out of what I grew the first time the pods didn't have the same cutshort trait.
Does it never end, now there's another to put on the list, Margaret Best Greasy Cutshorts :). Have some new ones from the UK to try too, I'm looking forward to next years growing season.
Right now the pineapple express is blowing through here, temperatures are 10 degrees above normal for this time of year, and rain, a lot of flooding up and down the island but so far no damage other than a soggy garden here.
Annette

Annette, Dick,

These are definitely pole beans. Mine are at 8 feet and still growing. I had been expecting four feet. I am thinking that part of the reason they matured so quickly is I planted them in four inch containers during warm weather, mid to upper 80's. They were up within three days or so. I put them in the ground 12 days after planting the seeds. I will be saving seeds, some for planting in mid to late January.

At 72 days.

The seed of Frank Barnett and Tennessee Cutshort are extremely similar, at first glance. Frank Barnett has noticeably sharp "corners," being a good example of a true cutshort. Bill Best sent me my original seed simply to illustrate what cutshort seed looks like. Tennessee Cutshort seed doesn't have those "corners." But the two are the same size and exactly the same color. If I ever dropped seed of one variety into a jar of seed of the other I would be in a fix! It would put all the seed's purity in doubt. To complicate matters, I have had runt pods of Frank Barnett produce only one seed, and that seed would be rounded like Tennessee Cutshort.

Annette, the different grow outs, were they from the same original sample, or was one a descendant of the other? I wonder if your original seed was possibly mixed?

George

George, they were a descendant. I'll look and see if I have any of the original seed left, if so I'll post a picture here. You may be on to something, maybe the seed I had was mixed.

Annette

On left, the first Tennessee Cutshort seed I had.
On right, what seed it produced.
Middle bottom, Tennessee Cutshorts from George
The seed on the left is slightly smaller than what it produced the next year some had that cutshort shape the others didn't.

This post was edited by aftermidnight on Mon, Dec 15, 14 at 10:49

That first seed certainly doesn't look like Tennessee Cutshort. This sounds like a cross. I need to get a bit more time to look it up. But there was yet another bean with this very same color seed. It was popular with a number of people when this forum first started. I think I got a start of it from Happyday. I didn't care for it though and stopped growing it after one season. It had the slip skin trait, which I don't like. But it also was promiscuous. That bean crossed with almost every other pole bean within about 30' . It had large rounded seed, as I recall. If my memory is correct, I wonder if you didn't receive 1) the wrong seed and 2) seed which had been crossed? This would account for variability over the course of several generations.

George

That first seed certainly doesn't look like Tennessee Cutshort. This sounds like a cross. I need to get a bit more time to look it up. But there was yet another bean with this very same color seed. It was popular with a number of people when this forum first started. I think I got a start of it from Happyday. I didn't care for it though and stopped growing it after one season. It had the slip skin trait, which I don't like. But it also was promiscuous. That bean crossed with almost every other pole bean within about 30' . It had large rounded seed, as I recall. If my memory is correct, I wonder if you didn't receive 1) the wrong seed and 2) seed which had been crossed? This would account for variability over the course of several generations.

George

Ah! I finally remembered what that other bean was, the one which had the same color seed, rounded seed and out crossed readily. It is Ma Williams. I grew it just one year and stopped. It has the slip skin trait, which I do not like. Plus Ma Williams crossed with a lot of my beans, that year, most notably with Old Timey Greasy Bean. I may still have a quart of seed from that cross. It was spectacular.

I should comment that my dislike of the slip skin trait should not be taken as reason for someone else not to try a variety. Over the years I have heard rave reviews of a couple of beans, only to find that I REALLY don't like them. Apparently plenty of other people have no problem with that trait.

George

Goose/Ma Williams/Maw Williams cross so much that some people will not do trades if they find out that the other person grows these beans in the same garden with their other beans.

Frank Barnett grows them in a rural garden miles away from home and Bill Best also arranges to grow them in complete isolation. I no longer grow them at all. :-(

The problem with Goose is that it is a very fibrous bean. If it crosses with a snap bean, the snap bean is ruined for eating.

Just received Goose in a trade and wondering whether I should even grow them out. Are these the Goose/Ma Williams/Maw Williams we are discussing here?

Lobo, did you get Ma Williams from me, if so they should be alright. When I grew them they were isolated from the rest of my beans as I was told they were very promiscuous :).
Here's a couple of pictures. Top two green and shelly stage. Bottom two shelly and dried.
Annette

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This post was edited by aftermidnight on Wed, Dec 31, 14 at 11:36

What do the terms greasy and cut short mean?

Deeby, most beans are covered with a very fine fuzz. Greasy beans dont have it and therefore have a greasy appearance. Cutshort means the beans are packed so tightly in the shuck that they have a flat end, hence "cut short". Some beans are both greasy and cutshort.

Thanks to George who has confirmed the identity as Goose. I won't be growing them at all so if anyone is anxious to add this variety to their collection, I'll mail these seeds to you. Just send me an email request.

Happy New Year

Goose is a fine shelly bean but I do not have a way to grow them in isolation. It appears that it was a Goose-Bingo cross that produced Neon Goose. I also dropped Bingo off my 2015 list.

Thanks, Fusion.

Shuffles, it occurred to me that perhaps no one defined for you what a cut short or cutshort bean is. These are beans that have seeds that grow so close together that they press against each other and develop flat ends. It has nothing to do with vine length. - Dick

When I grew Blue Shackamaxon and Cherokee Trail of Tears (in Minnesota), a fair percentage of the mature seeds came out looking like cutshorts, but not all.

Some of the earlier posts suggested that the trait might show up in some growing conditions but not others. Is it possible that the genes for cutshort are in a lot of varieties but show up more starkly in certain parts of the country?

Genetic traits determine how long a bean pod grows and how long the individual seed are in the pod. I've never seen geographic variation in pod shape though drought might be a factor.

I planted some Jan. 17 when the temps were in the mid to high 60's. (Had to bring them in at night.) They were ready for the first picking today. That is about 80 days. I planted more in early February when the temps were higher. Now, the February planting have almost caught up to those from January. They look like they are going to be ready after 66 days like the ones I planted last fall. The first batch this year were seeds saved from those with ruddy pods only. The ones I picked yesterday have something like two or three times as many ruddy pods as those from last fall. I plan to plant ruddy pod seeds again this fall. These have the strings removed and are ready for the pot.

Lucky you, those look so good. It will be another couple of weeks before I start any beans here :(. So looking forward to that first picking. Patience girl patience, it's going to be awhile before I see anything like that around here.
Annette

Anette, when the unusual February freeze came my wife was in her home in Chile. As the cold front approached with its winds, I had to place the row coves by myself. With the winds blowing it was difficult to cover my babies by myself - but it worked.

Anyway it worked. Beaners can be tough.

Shuffles, that is a really great photo. Like Annette, it will be months before we see that here. - Dick