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michoudabichon

please critique master bath lighting

michoumonster
8 years ago

Hi all, can you critique my masterbath/closet lighting plan?

I plan to do 4 sconces in the vanity area (sconces around 3 mirrors) , then 4 inch recessed cans everywhere else (red circles). is that enough light?

The bathroom right now is very dark, so i also will install 2 long windows close to the ceiling.


Comments (28)

  • ceezeecz
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    What sconces have you selected? You need to make sure the watts are high enough. Also, you might want the two different types of lighting to be each on a separate switch, with dimmers.

    This link describes lumens, which is helpful.

    http://www.wolffbros.com/documents/Showroom_Helpful_Notes/Choosing_Right_Bulb.pdf

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  • Oaktown
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Do you mind that the sinks are not centered between the sconces? Or that the door on the left might interfere with sink use?

    Otherwise lighting placement looks good so long as sconce bulbs provide sufficient light. Good luck!

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  • User
    8 years ago

    More than a ''challenge''. Undoable with any confidence in watertight integrity.

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  • sjhockeyfan325
    8 years ago

    Location is fine. Lumens are what matter. We have very good light in our bathroom -- the bathroom is 10'x6' with low ceilings, and we found that 3500 lumens (which in our case is provided by two LED sconces mounted horizontally in the mirror - one above each sink) and one shower light) is great. (By the way, I find the formula posted above not to work -- that would mean 90 watts in my bathroom, which wouldn't be anywhere near enough).

    Another suggestion if you don't mind. You've placed the sinks where you would be forced to place them if your vanity were only 60" wide (which ours is). While I have no problem using the left-side sink that close to the wall, it isn't optimum to place it so close to the wall and since you have the room, I'd probably move each sink in from the edge about 2 inches.

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  • ceezeecz
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    sjhockeyfan325, you're right, that formula is not good. I had a better calculation but I can no longer find it after the conversion to Houzz. But here's a watts to lumens table.

    http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/how-lumen-to-watt.htm

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  • LE
    8 years ago

    I don't know what you plan to use for lighting when you are actually in the tub. Maybe you like it bright and the overheads will be fine, although I would put them on dimmers for sure so I could turn them way down. I like to read in the tub and I put a wet use sconce on the wall above my head. Something to think about!

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  • ceezeecz
    8 years ago

    I have a 11 x 9 masterbathroom. Three sconces on one wall on either side and between two mirrored medicine cabinets. And 3 recessed lights in the ceiling. I only use the sconces. I've never needed the overhead lights. This room does have a large window across from the vanity with the sconces though. The sconces have two 40 watt fluorescent bulbs each in them. It is just the right amount of light.

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  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    ceezeecz, i haven't selected sconces yet. thank you for the link to the lumen calculations. i will make sure i get ones with enough lumens. i was thinking of doing leds for the cans.

    oaktown, i would prefer the sconces to be centered with the sinks. i will try to find some narrow sconces in order to do so. i might change the door swing, or maybe try for a pocket door so as not to interfere with the sink. thanks for the suggestions!

    sjhockeyfan, thanks, i will add a couple of inches to either sides of the sinks to make it more comfortable to use.

    eurocerob, and sophie, excuse my ignorance, but why would making the steam room be challenging? the pocket door (existing to the house) would be on the outside of the steam room. entire room including tub would all be tiled-- this was my inspiration-- candice-olsen-bathroom-with-wet-room-combinatio

    can you give me some tips to watch out for? should i remove the window (i would do a vinyl one)? we wanted to try to keep the pocket door while our kids were still young since they are in that adjoining room.. would doing a solid tub be better, we might do a clawfoot instead of a tiled tub?

    lori, thanks for the sconce by the tub suggestion. that would definitely be prettier than a recessed can. i don't know if I could do one because of the steam. I will see if i can find a waterproof one. thank you!

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Everything in the bath enclosure will need to be vapor proof, not just waterproof.

    Give up the window. Or the steam. Steamshowers generally aren't designed with wasted space that won't be occupied during steaming because that cubic space requires a much larger steam generator, and doesn't add anything but expense and difficulty to the matrix. Also, cleaning all of those extra nooks and crannies of the tub is going to be difficult enough from the dead skin cells and soap debris from the shower overspray without the steam deposits. A vaporproof window would be glass block, not vinyl, with a lot of extra steps to tie in the membrane to it. You will need to 100% gut the bath with top tier expensive expert help if you want all 3 of those features in your bath. It will be at least double the cost of an average high end bath, which is already 40K nationally.

    michoumonster thanked User
  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks Sophie, This would be tearing out an old jacuzzi to make into the new shower, so we would have to tear apart and waterproof the walls anyway. Hopefully it is only an incremental cost to add the vapor proofing. Since our master is on the small side (it is also the master closet), we would like to have the wet room as a way to make it more luxurious and the only I could think of to work in a tub and shower. I will reconsider the window though. thanks for the explanation!

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  • itltrot
    8 years ago

    I think there is a difference between a wet room which you seem to be describing and a steam shower.


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  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    The steam room part has me very worried. Sounds like you haven't done much research on the requirements of a steam room and are trying (to some degree) to fit 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound sack. The plan as drawn is doable, but you'll need a very experienced installer who can make the needed calculations for the steam unit. The window will be a challenge. I don't know of any steam room with a window in it. Condensation on the glass would be of concern, as well as breaking the glass in very cold outdoor temperatures.

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  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    itlrot, i have seen lots of wet rooms (albeit on the internet) that have steam showers.

    Sizing my wet room for steam, did not have much incremental cost in terms of the steam generator, when i looked at the various steam generator websites-- but I do understand it will be more work to vapor proof a larger area, and the tub and window will complicate things..

    Thanks Cabot! Sounds like the window would be very problematic.

    I appreciate all the feedback! I will take out the window and talk to my contractor about the tub area..


  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    If you use a surface applied membrane such as Nobleseal, it's possible to vaporproof the entire area. Look at bringing the waterproofing out onto the main bathroom floor membrane as well, tying the two together. The seams between the surface membrane and the tub will need special attention.

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  • chisue
    8 years ago

    Not enough elbow room at sinks.

    Toilet alcove looks shallow.

    Are you putting a clothes closet inside a bathroom, open to the moisture? I wouldn't want a window in my closet to fade my clothes.

    I have a pair of 60W sconces above each of two sinks. (Don't expect these to light a person seated at the vanity -- if that's what that is.) Would you have two matching mirrors plus a wider one in the center?

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  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks Cabot! I had been thinking about doing Redguard, or Hydroban as I am not sure if my contractor has much experience with using membranes like Nobleseal. My contractor is old school and wants to do a hotmop for the floor and 12 inches up the walls. But I need to discuss with him about the walls. do you find the liquid membranes have higher failure rate than the fabric type membranes?

    Chisue, thanks for the feedback. I was planning a vanity area in the center with its own mirror. do you think i should add more recessed light around the vanity area? i thought it might be to much with 4 sconces there.. i will shrink the make-up counterspace and add a few inches on either side of the sink also. We plan to do a wardrobe-style closet inside the bath (so clothes are all behind closed cabinets) in order to open up the space so we could actually have a window in the bath area for more light.

  • User
    8 years ago

    I would not do a steam room - especially that size without a sheet membrane and an appropriate bonding flanged drain.

    Liquid applied waterproofing membranes are tough to apply to the appropriate thickness, and some like hydroban are not vapor proof for a steam shower so you'll need additional detailing to protect the framing.

    I think you also need more recessed lighting. Especially in the dressing and shower / tub areas. Best to consult with a lighting designer with this plan.


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  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    What Xedos said.

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  • chisue
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I'd find it very annoying to have to open cabinets to get at my clothes in my walk-in closet, and the cabinet doors would get in the way. I'd want the whole room closed off from the bathroom. I I would not want a window in my closet. (Can you do a skylight?)

    Let's think resale. I'd skip the steam/wet-room/whatsis and have more closet space. You *use* closets several times a day. How often would you use this setup? How many buyers would want it?

    michoumonster thanked chisue
  • Honu3421
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    How high are your ceilings? This will play into the size of your can lights. I have a very similar bathroom layout without the closet and a few other differences, but essentially the same. Are you sure you want the light directly over the toilet? Think shadows. My light is forward of the toilet, about where the blue line is in your drawing. I didn't think the cans would provide enough general illumination of the kind you want in a bathroom so I went with flush mounted fixtures with globes (repurposed antiques). I also have two 4" cans over the sinks - about a foot out from the wall. My ceilings are 9 feet and we might be over lit but everything is on dimmers and I love this bathroom! I also have a can over the shower (no tub).

    Be sure to mock up the sink, sconces and mirror on your wall. Make sure you can live with your mirror and sconces being off center of your sink. Maybe do a search on Houzz for bathroom sconces to see how others handle this asymmetry.

    Ditto what everyone else is saying about elbow room. I think you will end up wishing you had that extra room. I gave serious thought to a make up counter but just did not want to give up the elbow room so instead, and for the sake of practicality, I installed a hamper pull out. We haven't moved in yet, but I have no regrets.

    Edited to add: we have three sconces at the vanity. Maybe that wasn't clear.

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  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Honu, thanks! my ceilings are only 8 feet.

    Chisue, thanks the steam shower is going to be a treat for myself as I do plan to use it regularly in winter. It is great for colds. The house is our aging in place home, so I don't know if resale is as big a factor. I would think 30 years from now, someone would want to rip everything out again, lol. it would be nice to have more closet space. maybe when the kids are older, i will repurpose the adjoining bedroom into a dressing room.

    After struggling to center the mirrors with the sinks, etc. I gave up and decided to rearrange the bath vanity. And I added a few close-to-ceiling lights. i think this layout will be good in that I can buy a ready-made vanity and add on a makeup table at the end to save on cost. will do recessed lights in closet area and in front of toilet, 2 recessed lights in shower area.

    let me know what you think!


  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    You'll need to switch the pocket door travel from the shower side to the terlit side as the shower can't be properly insulated at a pocket door, nor can the pocket door framing support the door to the shower. Where is the steam generator going to be located ?

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  • Honu3421
    8 years ago

    I am really no expert in lighting so I am just responding with my own slightly OCD thoughts. The changes you made look good to me. With the new vanity layout I would give serious consideration to either two over the mirror lights (these can be quite attractive) or 3 sconces evenly spaced. The 3 sconces might conflict with your makeup sconces so I'm not sure how that would work. There is a lot of arithmetic in this process!! At some point you may want to create an elevation view of your vanity/makeup counter with all elements to scale.

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  • michoumonster
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Cabot, I was thinking the steam generator could be located inside one of the closet cabinets on the wall shared with the shower. Thanks for the suggestion on the pocket door! I will ask my contractor to change it.

    Honu, thanks! I was thinking to do a double sconce between the two sinks, but will look into over the mirror lights too.

  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    The steam generator will need a drain line, water supply and a T&P valve (with code compliant piping) and may be a pan if local code requires.

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  • Honu3421
    8 years ago

    A double sconce will look nice. I think KevinMP in the home decorating forum had a double sconce. It was very pretty.

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