Ha, Jillius! If we stop now we can call them the 31 Ways to a Better GW Kitchen.

Love the 31 ways to a better GW kitchen. Great advice!

Oh yes, pglover, by the time you finish this kitchen project, will be so well informed on kitchen design, that you will be the one giving the advice to the newbies yourself. :-)

Oh, yes! 31 is, by far, the most important. :)

Ha, Jillius! ... Rule #16) Why, yes, induction IS an excellent idea.

Are you talking about induction cooktop?

Yes, she is. Many folks on here who have had gas and switched to induction would never go back to gas. If you do a search, you'll find numerous discussions about it.

What am I missing? What post is the wine cooler interfering with?

Some of the things we seem to be running into are b/c we never did get a measured layout of the current layout. It may be that there isn't as much room as it appears b/w the Kitchen wall and the and the DR column (red dot).

You appear to have your bar on the wall b/w the Kitchen and hallway (the blue rectangle)...is it not there? How wide is that hallway?

Is the door that's shown on the left actually there? If so, how does the bar fit in the doorway?

FunkyCamper, regarding dish storage - you're right. With the reduction in available space in the Cleanup Zone (b/c the wall has to be shortened to open up the Nook entirely), the added seating at the island, and other things, the dish storage that was originally on the outside in my layout, unfortunately, was sacrificed. Dish storage is now inside the Kitchen - in the middle of the secondary Prep Zone - but at least it's the secondary and not the primary. Yes, people will now be forced into the work area of the Kitchen when setting the table or unloading the DW, but it will only be an issue, I think, when the DR is being used or when more than one person is prepping/cooking. (When the DR is being used, people will cross through the primary Prep Zone and Cooking Zone b/c it's the shortest distance b/w the DR and the dish storage - regardless of how much they get in the way!)

Unfortunately, when major constraints are placed on a design, more compromises become necessary. Are they reasonable in this case? I don't know. If the Kitchen is more for show than work, then it probably won't matter. But, if it should first be functional, it's questionable.

We aren't going to live with this Kitchen - PGLover and his wife will be. So, they're the ones who will have to decide what is more important in the long run.

I may have misinterpreted your new space for the Nook - it may be smaller than I thought...

Oh, and the boxes are the "new" spaces:

• Purple rectangle - Kitchen - is the 10' long x 8' deep
• Green rectangle - Nook - 6' long x 12" deep

Length is left-to-right on my layouts

Depth is top-to-bottom on my layouts

.

NOTE: I edited the picture in my previous post to show the dimensions of the "new" spaces.

@beuhl...The new wine cooler area.. You are correct there is not much room between the kitchen wall and the DR column. The distance from the kitchen wall to the base of the DR column post is 42". The distance from the front of the existing bar area to the base of the DR column is 23". Knowing what I know now about walkways and aisles, the existing bar should not have been placed there. See photo below for clarity.

@beuhl...Your new layout has the correct dimensions now with the additional 2' ft to the kitchen and nook area as well as the new depth of the nook area being 12'. That is the space I have to work with for now.

With the constraint in space now, I do believe I will need to lose the 24" wine cooler and the walk-in pantry. I like the idea of the pantry in the corner. Maybe we could have a deeper (36" in depth) rectangle shaped pantry or a pantry shaped like in your latest layout but smaller.

@beuhl...I just want to comment on the new proposed size of the kitchen/breakfast nook area in the previous post (Layout #3). The only thing that is limiting us from adding additional space is our budget. I can stretch the budget a little to compromise on the size. Based on your comments, you feel that Layout #3 with the reduced size is cramped. I think the size of Layout #2 will overextend our budget. I am willing to extend the size for Layout #3 a little if you feel it will make the area more spacious and less cramped.

Let me see what I can do. I haven't worked it up completely (time, time, time! :-))

I am starting to look at various kitchen cabinets and island designs. The cabinets and island will be custom made by a cabinet maker I have been knowing for 10 years.. The design choices are overwhelming.

I've been following this post from the beginning. It's a little like a train wreck…I can't turn away!!! Pglover19 you should take a little time and look into what kind of countertop you want for your island. As has been pointed out to you a 10ft island is huge and and finding a slab to fit will be very difficult - no scratch that, impossible! Obviously, there will need to be a seam and unless you are using an experienced fabricator (read expensive) more than likely you will have issues with your seam (seams) on the island. I have a very large island (and kitchen) and I had a difficult time finding slabs. My dreams of Calacatta Gold countertops went out the window due to the smaller size of slabs available (I didn't want a seam in my island) and their cost in my area (crazy expensive - over $35,000 for countertops alone). Let's not forget the larger the slab the more expensive it is. Also a large island, while possibly awe inspiring, could become a "barrier island" - a term coined on this site. Sadly, I discovered this site after most of my cabinets and island had been built. I was able to make some tweaks thanks to reading various threads but I couldn't change my island. Yes, I have a "barrier island". While Jillius et al are correct about using more drawers in your kitchen, know they can be more expensive than base cabinets with doors. In my mind it's totally worth it but given your budget...

Good luck and be thankful for all the valuable advise you are being GIVEN.

@motherwallace... Thanks for your input... With the help of this forum, I am trying to avoid a "train wreck". We have decided to use granite for the countertops. I have been in contact with the granite fabricator and told him about the large island. This is a fabricator that I have been using for many years for projects in my home. He did not bring up the fact that there will be a seam in the large island. I will contact the fabricator tomorrow again. Once again, thanks for your insight.

@motherwallace... I researched the term "barrier island" on this forum. Do you feel that my island is a "barrier island" based on the latest layout? The location of my island is not interfering with access to the pantry, refrigerator, prep sink, or cooking area.

Oh, something to please consider. Your cabinets are gorgeous. Please consider donating them to a charity store of some kind. Habitat for Humanity will definitely love them. The Goodwill and others, too. You should get a decent charitable contribution for a tax deduction.

@funkycamper.. That is my plan along with the granite as well.... Too bad I couldn't reuse them...

Why can't you reuse the cabinets? They should be able to be moved around. You could use your current lowers to create your island and buy new, contrasting cabinets for the perimeter. Or reuse some on the perimeter, too, and just buy some new ones that contrast. Or find out who the manufacturer was and see if you can just buy additional cabinets in the same style with the same finish. Personally, I like kitchens that have different cabinets. Especially a bit bigger ones like yours will be. I think it adds more character.

@funkycamper.. Never thought about it... My consider it....

Does other folks feel that this project is a train wreck? If so, what can be done to bring it back on the tracks?

Wow - 274 posts. You're in good hands. If anyone can get you back on track, it's this group of layout specialists.

@pglover19…no, the current design doesn't appear to interfere with cook/prep or cleanup zones. Mine doesn't either (well, maybe a little bit) but it's big and I seem to be always walking around it. My previous kitchen was a bit smaller and didn't have an island (I had a peninsula) so when I had the opportunity to have an island in this house I thought "let's make it as big as possible!!" Luckily, I have very generous aisles which allows my kitchen to "feel" as spacious as it measures. It's my understanding you and your wife are hoping for a luxurious, spacious kitchen. As other's have pointed out to you by insisting on such a large island and wanting/needing to use your large breakfast table you really aren't making best use of space. It's basically a long galley kitchen and those don't often "feel" spacious. I would consider making it a bit smaller to gain more space and really upgrading the finishes. Install a beautiful hood over your range/cooktop, higher end cabinets w/soft close hinges, a beautiful yet functional faucet (more pricey than you'll can imagine), upgraded granite/marble, and a special backsplash. Trust me all these things speak louder than a large island with "average" finishes. One other thing to consider…all those barstools can be quite pricey!!!

@funkycamper.. As far as cabinets, my wife wants white/off white base and upper cabinets with dark stained island cabinets, We have to decide on the color of white. Additionally, I am trying to find photos of this combination. Hopefully it will look OK.

Yes, it's a train wreck. Your wife seems to be the active one with all of the wants here. So why isn't she on here participating in getting grounded in reality as to the consequences and costs to all of that "I want"? Instead, we have the passenger in the vehicle passively aggressively demanding that everyone else do all of the heavy lifting on a project that isn't likely to get off the ground.

Get your wife to post and have a serious conversation about a realistic budget for all of those wants and learn how to use Paint yourself instead of demanding that volunteers do work for you that garners $$$$ in the real world.

I have been following this thread from the beginning and it reminds me of what I went through (in the wee hours of the morning between me and my $99.00 Chief Architect). I went through reams of paper, hours of gardenweb kitchen forum reading, HOUZZ and Pinterest searches. My family members were frustrated with me and the time it was taking for me to figure this out.

I called it the storming before the norming. I wasn't brave enough to throw it out here for everyone else to see just how much storming I had going on. But, I am so thankful that I had the resources of the expertise and real life projects this site had available for me.

I did a short lived thread, bought my software and went back and forth from Garden Web Kitchen forums to drawing - almost everyday for a very long time.

So glad I went through the long period of storming / derailed almost train wrecks, etc. before getting to the real deal. My kitchen is much smaller than many of the ones posted here but reading your kitchen experiences helped me make the best use of the challenging space I have. Everyday - I love the function of my new kitchen. Thank you all for the help you didn't even know you were giving.

I have been a Gardenweb member for a very long time, mostly in the decorating forum and not real active posting for a few years. However, I never quit reading at least weekly and constantly getting ideas and gaining knowledge of everything from decorating, design, to getting frogs out of toilets. You would not believe the ugly I was creating in my Family Room with out the help of Gardenweb.

I say all this because I am so impressed with pglover19's determination to help his wife get the kitchen of her dreams, his courage to put it all out there, and to carry on even in the midst of battle wounds. I am also in awe of the talented people who have been so willing to take this journey with him. I am so looking forward to the final results of this project.

pglover19, your wife is very fortunate. I hope the end result will be the feeling of a luxury kitchen - every morning when you sit with your coffee across from your grateful wife!

I appreciate all the help and I am trying to be as active as possible.. You just don't need how much knowledge I have gained by all the comments. I am reconsidering my budget if needed.

@perky_2.. Thank you so much for your kind words... I hope that going through this experience will allow me to help others on this forum as well...

Did you ever get that garage built? Done any riding lately? Install any doors? ;-)

You may still be able to use your base cabinets to create your island and then just have them stained a darker stain. That alone could save you thousands of dollars on this project.

I hope Mrs. pglover is at least reading here if she isn't posting. If she has strong desires in her kitchen wants and needs, I think it's pretty hard for pglover to be the go-between when she is the one driving the project. As Green Designs alluded to.

House before pink siding was added? Did you ever get that "wow" landscaping you were after back in 2007?

Is this brick? On pglover's house? Why cover up lovely brick?

Of course, I live in an area with extremely few brick homes so I'm always intrigued by them. Maybe if someone lives in an area where there are a lot of brick homes, they don't seem as charming.

I would like to keep the conversation on the kitchen project if we can. Pink siding?

I wouldn't count on there being a missus. This guy is a gamer. I have to give him kudos for playing so well he managed to get so many replies. Other places he's hit have not been nearly so patient with him. He does add an interesting twist to sealioning. I will give him that. It's kind of hard to be ticked off at him. He's given me an amusing read after all.

Note he doesn't have much of a profile anywhere he goes. I suggest this for his pic.

Well said Perky_2. I hope my words weren't too harsh - that wasn't my intent. It was meant to be more of a reality check. As others have said we've all been there. Our dreams often don't match our reality. I will tell you I had a very large budget and still had to scale back because of unforeseen costs associated with a remodel/addition. I alluded to it earlier but you can't forget part of the "wow factor" are the other things that go in the kitchen such as the beautiful pendants your wife will no doubt want that will hang over your island and window treatments to soften/frame the windows. With such a large island you'll need several barstools which don't come cheap. And, as often happens, once you finish your new beautiful luxury kitchen you'll notice a few other parts of your house don't quite measure up - especially those that open to the new kitchen. Things start snowballing and before you know it your repainting rooms and perhaps recovering furniture putting you way over budget. Most on this board want only to help you and offer advice so you can learn from our mistakes. I too have "trolled" this forum (and a few others) and the advice I gleaned from it has been invaluable. I too hope your wife has been reading this thread and become an active participant in your new kitchen.

I wouldn't have posted all these photos of the inside of my home if I was not not serious about remodeling my kitchen. Trust me...

Funkycamper, compare the house I posted with the sketches and the outside pics Pglover19 posted here. Note that his sketches show brick at least on the front and the actual pics show pink siding. I got the pic of his house that I posted from another site he asked landscaping advice on. Same MO.

watchmelol, although I'm familiar with the behavior, I'd never heard it called sealioning before.

What is sealioning?

Yep. Sealioning is the perfect analysis. Google search on pglover19 shows a pervasive MO of Sealioning. Never seen such an incredulous level of cluelessness across so many boards and topics.

I visited the granite fabricator today at lunch as I was concerned about the length of the island and having a seam. The fabricator only has 2 pieces 11ft or longer. Lots of pieces 9-10ft in length. I will visit the fabricator supplier in the next several weeks. I can alway reduce the length of the island to 9 or 10ft..

You might consider bookmatching the granite for the island. I think it's beaglesdoitbetter's kitchen that has a beautiful example. It might be included in these images: bookmatching granite

With white cabinets, though, you might also consider calacatta marble--maybe calacatta d'oro. Or dolomya marble. After mntrd used it on her island, I was hoping someone else would, it's such a show-stopper.

He also owns a whole bank of servers. Wow. That's why the big house that's too small for the two of him. He probably uses the whole second floor as an upper story batcave. LOL A real computer guru. Probably gets invited to speak at Defcon and all kinds of kewl stuff. Bet he's like a real hacker/cracker or sumthin'.

Don't be shy buddy. Tell us about yourself.

Also, I've been looking over Buehl's latest plan, and although it's very spacious, there's just something that's off (in both of our
plans). It took me a while to figure it out, but then I realized what
was missing, so here is an elevation with the missing element:

GW discussion--More about Kitchen Shrines

So after following along and reading and reading all the good advice and then OP's responses I did myself wonder a couple times (with a few head slaps really????) - are you reading AND THINKING about the advice posted or just posting more "I am totally out of control help me right now" questions that seemed to not take into consideration any of the advice. It was more I have to have 10', I have to have it large, I have to have it.....HELP regardless of the solutions posted.

I kind of started to wonder if you are a college student in design school trying to get someone to draw up a kicking design for your homework assignment and it was the 11th hour. But I am no design expert just a learner myself. If nothing else there are some good designs in this thread with lots of elements that many would enjoy (well maybe not the topiary IN the kitchen). Oh wait a minute - THE TOPIARY IS THE SHRINE! You are all set!

@autumn.4... I definitely appreciate all the help. I have learned some much in posting on this forum. I can't wait to start this project and show everyone on this forum my beautiful kitchen.. Thanks you for your input.

Everyone would truly love to see it. If constructed from either Buehl's or Mamagoose's it will be amazing. But it is looking to be beyond the pantry door that mamagoose posted on the latest sketch.

So, are we all done here, pglover? Surely you have everything you need to go forth and create the kitchen of your dreams.

I love you, Mama Goose! LOLOLOL....please excuse me while I clean up the tea I just spit on my monitor.