Hi Again JDM Countertops,

I spoke to our granite place this morning and we have two slabs. Each slab is 9'-1" x 6'1". They seemed resistant to let us see the template before install, but I insisted as per everybody’s advice ;-)

They are suggesting two seams: one piece that goes all the way down the left side of the U-shape, one that goes all the way down the right side of the U-shape, and a shorter piece that goes across the back of the U-shape (this one would flow in a different direction). I was told the only alternative is to have more seams in order to get the flow right, or I need to pick a new stone with a larger slab.

Thoughts?

Sincerely,
GG

Hi GG,

While I think I understand why they are saying that, I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. Since you are working with two slabs, you should be able to get each 7+ foot side of the U-shape out of the width of the slab (109"), and the sink side could be cut in half so that each side could be taken out of the height (73"). Essentially, you would have two L-shaped pieces cut out of each slab and one seam in the middle of your sink side. That way all your grain is going the right direction as well (provided you have two consecutive slabs). I may be missing some details, but that's how I would try to do it....

Best of luck!

Yes, the single seam created by bringing the two L-shaped pieces together wouldn't be in the center of the sink but at least the overall flow of the stone would be in the same direction.

Hi JDM,

Thanks as always for your posting, I think you’re right about the L-shape template plan being the better alternative. However, I remember our granite place mentioning that they don’t like to do seams by the sink because a large sink places too much stress on the seam. Have you heard of this?

Sincerely,
GG

I personally think that if thats their concern then a couple upright two by fours attached with screws underneath the countertop plywood sheet that surrounds the sink (inside the cabinet) to re-enforce and keep it from flexing under the weight from a sink full of water would be fine.

Well, there are two schools of thought on seaming in sink cut outs. Some fabricators won't do them, and others do them all the time. One isn't necessarily right. I would rather seam in a sink cut out than near it, personally, for visual reasons, but you can seam near it without issue. I don't know what your measurement is to your sink center, but if they can make it work to seam it in the sink cut out somewhere (even if it's not in the center), that would probably be better. If we were fabricating this project, we would try and make one of these options work vs having three seams and unmatching flow.

Thanks so much, JDM and Finndian. I really appreciate all of your advice, and I feel much more knowledgeable going into the templating stage. I can't thank you enough!

Sincerely,
GG

ps. JDM - My brother has a place in Phoenix, so I'll let him know about your company.

I read all of these comments.. I fabricate all types of Stone and Marble pieces. THE CORRECT WAY is after you pick the slab visually...on site, they come and template, after that, the client, should go back to the yard or store, with the fabricator and the template pieces. The pieces get put over the stone, so as to avoid any
insane seams.. at this moment you can say yes or no, to placement. After you approve, they MUST CUT accordingly as placed. This is what I do and this is how it should be done. The problem with your job, is that aside from the seams, they did not match the stone. I think this, They cut the heck out of the slab,Good Luck
By the way. I would not have put that corner cabinet in that space.. that whole center cut should have been one triangle on the slab.

Glad that Carol's Carpet offered to replace at their cost minus the removal of the cabinet tower. Since you are paying your gc to oversee the job and he apparently has not stepped in to help out much, removing and replacing the cabinet is the least he can and should do if he expects to be considered a valued professional.
As far as you granite people, I would not use them to replace their shoddy job. I hope their lack of responsibility is known since they are on Houzz. As far as Casio Const. They probably lost a lot of business with their remarks. Good luck, the bathroom looks beautiful!

It looks like to different slabs.

needs to be redone. I would have expected the seam to be in front of that corner cabinet. with the seam where it is, it'll be a pain to keep it clean!

It does look like someone mismeasured to me. Why put a seam that close to the end of the piece? If they had to make a seam there would have been far more discreet places to put it. It could have been done on the diagonal at the V where the 2 cabinets met. I am glad you are finally getting some sort of concession. Sounds like they were trying to convince you of some nonsense when they were saying it was a high quality job & their wives would have loved it. I've had similar "teamwork" when I had a disastrous cut & color. Every beautician in the studio stopped by the chair to ooh & aaah about how LOVELY my hair was. It was a disaster & they were trying to convince me that blue was green, or some such. Stand your ground. You really shouldn't have to pay diddly for their mistake.

They don't even look like the slabs came from the same stone quarry. Did you go to the distributor and pick the stone yourself? I only ask because I didn't trust the sample he brought, I wanted to see a whole slab. There can be some variation between slabs but not that much! It looks like the used remnants from several slabs. Make them replace it.

Seams should be addressed like two matching pieces of a puzzle-originally, the puzzle is whole (like the slab of granite is whole)- then, the puzzle is sliced to make pieces, (just as the granite is cut) - and then the pieces of the puzzle should be matched back together so the picture looks right (the two pieces of granite that are seamed together should have been one unified piece originally, before they were cut, and then placed back together during the installation). This is how top granite fabricators/ installers arrange it.

alabamalibrarian -- How did this turn out for you? I have the same problem now and am sick over it, only I think mine is even more noticeable than yours. I hate to contact them about it, but I think I need to. I can't have my entire granite kitchen redone, so I'm hoping they can just pull out the two bad pieces that don't match. Would love to know your outcome. Hope you are happy with it by now!

@alexisever : great explanation above. i've been going thru this with slabs of Greek marble called Volakas. they arrived at the fabricators and he called to say they wouldn't look right because the weren't book matched. frustrating to say the least but i'm glad he told me before cutting.

Excellent subject matter! Sorry that it had to be at someone's dismay. I searched this topic because I am looking at a lot of flipped properties and happened to come across a kitchen that had an awesomely striking granite with a strong pattern. The L-shaped counter top seam was cut so that the pattern took a sharp 90 (perpendicular) degree change of directions. I thought that the continuity of pattern was key to installing granite! So sad that the art form is being replaced by cheap looking installations.

Here is a pic...I think this is a remnant installation. Agree?

@arturo. agree. that looks soooohh wrong.

This may not necessarily be a remnant installation, but a good example of trying to squeeze this particular kitchen out of one slab. When you are limited on material, you are limited on the lay out. I would warn my clients of this outcome if they told me they weren't willing to purchase another slab. If this is a property flipping situation, then it makes sense why they wouldn't be as concerned. It's unfortunate.... when material has this much directional flow, we typically work with a 25-30% waste factor.

@8newhouse Just noticed you commented to me a little while back. It turned out fairly well for us.... they offered to re-do it all, or give us 50% of our money back. We ended up taking the 50% reimbursement, and to tell you the truth I usually have makeup and jewelry all over the counter so the mismatched seam job doesn't bother me near as much as I expected it to. :) Good luck getting your own issue resolved.

when templating you should then be able to show where the seams are gonna be..if they arent there send a picture of the templates taped to the slab and say..excuse me...to save you from buying more material..we need to put the seam here..are you ok with that or would it be better on the other side...sorry..but there are two sides to every story maybe you guys can come to an agreement

This is why we novices need help. My contractor nixed my first three choices because of the movement of the granite and the location the seam had to be. We did find one both of us were happy with. The seam is barely visible, even in person.

http://www.houzz.com/user/alabamalibrarian83 glad you are happy. It is tricky when a contractor mandates which granite company you must work with. The best granite installation let me look at the slabs in the warehouse and set them aside for me. Then I was invited to be present at layout before they cut out the pieces . This is very important for seams or if there ate large variations within the slab. My worst experience I could only see the front slab, then the material turned out bad and I had to approve a different material by email photo. They sent me a photo of the proposed cutout for approval. Very unnerving, fortunately the workmanship was excellent and the kitchen is awesome.

I always prefer customers work with people I recommend, if they choose not to we hold no responsibility. One thing that is nice with a Granite Company we work with through the Designer is they do not stock slabs, so we are not forced to pick from their lot and buy their overhead. They take us to 3 stone Yards in the community and we pick from whatever we like as well as being advised how many pieces we will need to be reserved, are they all from the same lot?, etc. I must say@adivra I do agree with your contractor, I'm sure he was acting in your best interests. Some stones are not very busy but have big veins and can be hard to mask seams. Your granite looks to be very busy and like you say, the seams are barely visible.

Thank you SO much for this thread. I just refused to pay for my granite at Lowe's because I didn't realize they don't necessarily pattern match, and was told there's a chance my pattern can be abruptly cut off at the seam. Then the salesperson brought me to a display granite where the pattern matching is worse than the OP's picture (sorry OP) and she said she thinks it looks fine. no, it looks terrible. I think I'm starting all over again AND avoiding Lowe's AND the stone fabricator who didn't communicate this to me when I went to look at my slab. So frustrating.

Granite is a natural stone with natural "blemishes" and spots that you might not like that is on a slab that you like for the most part. This is what we did: after we picked out a slab, realizing that piece had a couple of flaws (some might not consider them that) that I did not want on the finished product. After that and after the template was made, we asked the fabricator to inform us when they had the slab ready to view before they cut it. They had it against a well lit wall and the templates in hand. We simply rearranged the templates to find just the right positioning of the finished piece. Do not rely on the fabricator to make that decision on their own. Check it out with the template before they cut. Any reputable fabricator will be willing to spend time with you to make you happy.

I do professional granite layouts for a large fabricator in the midwest. A layout of the countertop on the stone is offered to each customer. If they choose to come in for the layout, (that is their choice), they will actually get to see what piece will seam up to the other piece. The two pieces they have seamed together for you, is not what I would suggest to a customer. I would try to match the colors and patterns as best as possible from each piece together. This of course will never be a perfect blend, but it should not have the large pattern on one side and the small pattern on the other side of the seam. If the customer declined the layout, still our shop guys try to pick a place where colors are of the same on each side of the seam. There have been times where layouts have not been done by the customer and the customer does not like the seamed pieces. Our shop most probably would replace the top or one of the pieces without charge to the customer. The customer would have to pay the carpenter to remove and replace the cabinet as well as the plumbing.

One other thing to consider, and someone above did bring up the point...is how many square feet were they trying to fit on one slab. If you paid by slab and purchased one slab and had over 40 sq ft, then there might not have been a choice. At our company the customer pays per sq footage, so if another slab is needed we use one.

As far as having a seam...this depends on a lot of factors. Transporting to the job, getting inside the house and doorways, safe handling without injury to the installer or risk of the granite breaking when installing or carrying, the walls etc. Having a seam is not out of the ordinary but it should look better.

Over all, in my professional opinion, it is a terrible seam and I would not accept it or be able to live with it every day.

Just another example I why I would never choose granite.

What a great thread! I am about to start a kitchen renovation and i am really worried about seams. I LOVE the exotic granite because of the movement, but i have an 11'-4" span across my sink side and can just imagine the potential for disaster!! Thanks for all of the great insight into how to possibly avoid it!

Be certain your contractor will be good with you picking out your own slab. Mine told me that the price he quoted me for was only good for certain slabs, which he called "discount" or inventory he already had purchased that was in his supply. The contract did not state this, but it was a huge job and in the end I decided it was not worth the headache to wind up in court. He also tried to jack up the price on a lot of the work, with no change orders. There is a terrible & very visible seam, but I have that corner of my counter covered with the microwave. I had to put it somewhere as I went with a traditional hood over my stove instead of a built in microwave / vent. I would make sure it is spelled out in writing, some unscrupulous contractors take advantage of your trust in them & will cut every corner if the job starts to look like less profit for them than they hoped.

As a contractor I would say it had something to do with how the template was placed on the granite and how it had to be cut for appropriate measurements. The only other option was to make it 3 pieces. Granite doesn't come in v shaped pieces. However, he should have discussed the seem with you previously.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. A COUNTER TOP SEAM IS A COMBINATION OF STONE EXPERTISE, THE STONE THAT IS BEING FABRICATED AND THE SUPPORT SYSTEM, SUCH AS CABINETS IN PLACE. THE CONTINUITY OF THE STONE VEIN IS DEPENDENT UPON THE EXPERTISE, THE STONE THAT IS BEING FABRICATED AND , ASSUMING INTEGRITY ON ALL PARTS, THE PRICE THE CLIENT IS WILLING TO PAY.

This is what we got, not for my home but a remodel we did. The seam is smack down in the middle and It's the only thing I can look at.

Ionela Bobrischew That does look pretty glaring. However this post is quite old;

February 25, 2013. If you have a dilemma you could start this thread again with a new post and you would probably got lots of attention. Happy day to you :)

Hello Lonela,

This is not a professional job and below Associated Marble standards.

Please give your opinion of this granite. We chose it for the flow, i think they ruined it. Theyre giving me a hard time,. Can it be fixed ?

That's a beautiful seam. You've got lots of movement. They're fabricators, not magicians. You should have picked quartz or Corian. They should have screened you out.

That is not a seam to be complaining about.

Seriously? Did you not see the photos regarding bad jobs and realize your job is good. The minute granite is cut, automatically you know there will be some difference. The blade results in waste and the two pieces won't ever match perfectly, because it's impossible. Your granite is as close as it gets.

The seam looks good, it bothers me that they didnt match the pattern back up when glued together. Is off by 3/4".

Go burn a bale of hundred dollar bills. That's as useful as griping about a good granite seam. You wanted a perfectly inconspicuous seem? Shoulda got Corian. You got the best within the limitations of the product.

Thank you for your input.

When I look at your photo, I see the mismatch in the forefront, but if you visually move that piece back (and I am assuming that there is a seam going from front to back on that entire piece), then at about 6-7" it seems it would be "off" up there. Very strange that it seems off to me in 1 spot but not further back. How big is the slab? Also, to Ionela, that is very poor quality workmanship and looks like 2 completely different countertops.

The slab is approx 2 ft x 6 '. When you closer, the whole thing would flow beautifully if moved up 3/4", but its already cut and glued. We have someone coming to see if they can blend the color with some stain.

I've learned a lot from this thread. As a contractor, you must screen out customers with completely unrealistic expectations as to the ability to match natural stone in seams. There isn't a poor seam on this page.

This is absolutely ridiculous to say that it's the customer unrealistic expectations. My husband is a contractor, he's done countless projects and hasn't had a single issue before. I guess it depends on the company who sells the granite and how experienced they are. We have granite in our house and we're fortunate to not have a seam, and the job couldn't have been any more professional, but we clearly seen enough granite to know there's variations.
On most kitchens he did the seam was hardly noticeable, but this one let us both slightly disappointed.

Can the seam in granite be placed by a sink to minimize it ? Ive heard many people doing this, but my granite dealer wasnt too keen on doing it. He said it would make a weak spot in front of the sink that could break. Appreciate your input

Original poster here! I can't believe this post is still getting comments 4 years later. The original granite counter in question, is now covered in toiletries every day, and I can safely say I never even think about or notice the seam anymore. (well.. almost never. ;-) So take heart, my fellow seam-sufferers.. What seems terrible in the moment just becomes normal after a few years of looking at it.

Looking back, all my disappointment could have been avoided if my contactor had just shown me some sample photos and explained the whole seam thing to me. The problem was primarily a lack of communication between the homeowners & our contractor.