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michfbgal

Need Your Input! Layout for Small 50s Kitchen Remodel

michfbgal
8 years ago

Let me start by saying that while I haven't been a poster here, I spend more time reading the threads on this board more than I'd like to admit (even those that do not pertain to me or my situation!). So thank you for being one of my guilty pleasures :)

Here's my situation. I have an original 50s kitchen that a year ago I decided I would finally replace the counters. Then I decided I needed to push the peninsula out some more so that I would have more room around the range. Then I decided since I'm doing that, I might as well get new doors for the cabinets. Now after considering all of that it seems as though it makes sense to consider a full (budget) remodel although I'll admit I'm having a hard time thinking of tearing out the perfectly fine cabinets that have been there for so many years....

Because the kitchen is very modest in size, the layout is giving me some problems. Ideally I would like to keep appliances in much the same place that they are but will consider anything for a vastly-improved layout.

Some of my biggest problems right now:

(1) My current rough layout suffers from one of the same problems I have with the current layout - lack of prep space between the sink and range. It's not too bad, though. I wonder about swapping the sink and the dishwasher to improve this but does that put the dishwasher in too odd of a spot?

(2) Will 2.5 inches between the dishwasher and the corner where the perpendicular cabinets meet or do I need to consider a smaller than 36-inch sink base?

(3) Regarding wall cabinets, the corner between the sink wall and the range is difficult. While I like the idea of having cabinets to round the corner to the sink wall a bit, I'm left with an awkward space between the corner cabinet and the hood that will likely be too narrow of a cabinet to be worthwhile. Would it look odd for both sides to have the cabinets run into and stop at the sink wall?

I'll welcome any and all ideas and thoughts - including those urging me to not tear out an old kitchen. No matter what, though, the milk chute door will not be going anywhere! MANY THANKS!!


Current layout and a couple of pictures (yup, those are green counters!):


First floor plan:

Very rough new layout:

Few notes - Fridge wall is approximately 151 inches from the door to the sink wall. Sink wall is approximately 137 inches and range wall is approximately 100 inches. Both corners of the window wall are voided at the base. Thought was to put trash and recycling in the cabinet between fridge and door with hopefully a smaller trash can under the sink. Both d/w and fridge will be replaced. Fridge will be counter depth. Range hood is 42".

Whew! That was a lot but still doesn't come close to all the scenarios that have been running through my head. If you're still reading, thanks!

Comments (14)

  • Karenseb
    8 years ago

    I'm not an expert, but I like the idea of moving your peninsula down into that wasted space. I wonder if you could move it down another foot and move the range down closer to the peninsula. You could put lazy susans in each corner of the sink wall and center the sink/dishwasher on that wall. If you keep the faucet on the left of the sink, it would be centered on the window. I'd do what ever wall cabinets that would fit on the sink wall. I prefer storage.

    michfbgal thanked Karenseb
  • herbflavor
    8 years ago

    is just a straight run of counter to the right of range an option?....eliminate peninsula. You could have nice curved counter corners at the end of the run..place a bookcase facing out to dining area if you want .Not really seeing the value of the peninsula with seating so close..... and a straight run without the corner might be better. As well, a move of the fridge a bit more to the right will allow space for something to be done for eye appeal to the left of fridge..... glass door upper.....maybe open shelves..open base cabinet......this little area along with bookcase at the end of other run will help with style details when you get to it. It appears as though you won't be getting an island kitchen, but opening it up anyway with details at the ends of the runs can really be nice......If no seaters at peninsula, I'd skip it.

    michfbgal thanked herbflavor
  • desertsteph
    8 years ago

    are you single? married? kids? (how many and ages)

    I do think that losing the peninsula and extending that run with the stove moved down maybe 2' would help a lot (lower cabs only). it'd give you about 2' more for prep on that side. you could have the 'extended' cab section open into the eating area if there could be use for that. like for placemats, candle storage, trivets etc. or even glass doors on that side for display.

    EZ reach cabs for each upper corner and can you enlarge the window for more light? I'd try to keep the cabs from pushing up to close to the window on either side.

    drawers, drawers, drawers.

    do you need space for a pantry area?

    what's on the wall that's shared with the stairs? full wall? open stairway?

    is the mudroom already there or is that something you're planning to put in?

    michfbgal thanked desertsteph
  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thank you for the feedback so far! I'm truly open to all suggestions and already have my pencil and paper out looking at new options based on comments this far. I was stuck on keeping the range in the same space because it was just installed a year ago (including putting a hole in the brick wall for the exhaust) but what's another hole in the wall?!

    You are right. The range needs to move down. Right now I'm thinking about a foot and a half. That still leaves about 10 inches between the range and the corner by the eating area so that no one could just reach across and touch a hot burner.

    To answer a few questions, I am single and don't plan on moving any time soon but this is a four bedroom house in a family neighborhood so I would like the layout to potentially work for a family if I did sell sooner than I expect.

    The addition with the eating area, mud room, and family room already exists. There is a small reach-in pantry closet right by the basement stairs and what would have been the back wall of the house. It is used now mostly for cleaning supplies and small kitchen appliances. Oh and the wall along the stairs is a solid wall. I have a bakers rack there right now but I cannot put anything very deep there because that is a main walkway.

    I do like the idea of a peninsula for a few reasons - it keeps people out of the kitchen and out of my way but keeps them close enough for conversation, it has storage for pots and pans, and also provides extra counter space especially for food when entertaining or when I'm making ravioli. I might only be thinking it is a must because it has always been here, however, so I'm keeping an open mind.

    Oh and Scone911, thank you! I do love the charm of the kitchen and even the counters have grown on me, which has made this such a long, difficult decision. If only I could keep it all as-is but still increase the function! To add insult to injury, all of the cabinets are painted red on the inside and one upper cabinet has a spice rack that was built into the cabinet.

    Thanks again, I appreciate the comments this far!




  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I forgot to mention that I would love of I could swap the fridge and range but the fridge wall is an interior wall, which would make the venting for the hood difficult. Also, I have thought about enlarging the window but would have to check on the feasibility of that since it is a brick exterior (and doesn't have a good view!)

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Your kitchen is charming, but I understand wanting to update for better function.

    1) I wouldn't swap the sink and DW, since that would put the DW in
    your prime prep space. NKBA recommends a minimum of 21" between a DW and
    a perpendicular counter, but in a small kitchen, the guidelines can't
    always be followed. That recommendation is to leave a
    comfortable space for unloading dishes to the upper cabinets, but times
    are changing, and we are starting to see more folks storing dishes in
    base drawers. In the following plan I gave you a large drawer base for
    dishes. 2) I think 2.5" should be enough filler for the corner, but you'll have to keep that in mind when choosing drawer pulls.

    3) I like having the cabinets go straight to the wall, with a bigger window if possible.

    Also like the suggestions to leave out the peninsula, but to make up for
    lost counter space, you can have a pull-out drawer cabinet (in red on
    the plan), to increase counter space when you need it. The counters on
    the range wall could be made deeper--drawers can be deeper for more
    storage to make up for the loss of the peninsula cabs and upper
    cabinets. If you can't do the custom deeper drawers, standard depth
    drawers can be pulled out from the wall--you still get more counter
    space for prep and appliances. A deeper space would allow for a standard
    depth drawer bank on the end, with a fold up piece, to provide even
    more counter space.

    I switched a full-height pantry for the base
    and uppers on the fridge end, but you could have a drawers on the bottom, with
    cabinets above, and added a corner susan. I don't have a corner susan,
    but one of the experts, buehl, often recommends them for storage in a
    corner, since filler for drawer clearance takes up space.

    michfbgal thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Mama goose, thank you! Both the deeper cabinets/counter and the pull-out cabinet are intriguing ideas that I would have never been able to come up with on my own and may solve many problems. I have a kitchen designer coming out on Monday to measure so all these ideas will come in handy!

  • maries1120
    8 years ago

    I was thinking a pantry cabinet with roll out shelves to the left of the refrig just like Mama Goose mentioned. Are you using your current refrigerator or buying new. I thought I wanted a French door one but felt I lost door storage plus I only have counter on the one side. French doors will be a little wider and may not give you that much more usable space. My favorite cabinets are the pull out spice ones. They have an upper or lower but much better storage with the lower.

    If you currently have a blind corner cabinet you probably aren't using that space so the lazy Susan corner will be wonderful!

    i think with just a few changes and everything new you will see and feel a big difference.

    michfbgal thanked maries1120
  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago

    This is larger in scope, but what about this. You could either put an island in the middle of the kitchen or you could make it an eat in kitchen with a dining table in the middle.


    A Private Cabin · More Info

    Guest House · More Info

    michfbgal thanked sheloveslayouts
  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Benjesbride, I LOVE your vision mostly because it is similar to (and validates) my vision for a much bigger remodel many years down the road (is it odd that I've already been planning my next remodel?) The reason I've nixed the idea for now is that the wall between kitchen and dining room is not only load bearing but also has hvac stuff in it so I'm afraid it would be more involved than I want to deal with right now

  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    I love your current kitchen so much I just want to come to your house and chain myself to your cabinets so when the demolition crew shows up, I can scream "NO!!!!!!". If you like the cabinets and if they are still in great condition, why change them all? Of course, it's your decision and I won't hunt you down if you decide to make a total change. But be aware there is a market for used vintage cabinets in good condition so, if you do decide on a to-the-studs remodel, please have those cabinets carefully removed and either donate them to something like a Habitat for Humanity store or sell them. The RetroRenovation.com website is one place to visit and post about them where you might find exuberant buyers. And, of course, Craig's List.

    So I came up with a plan with minimal changes, allowing you to keep most of your cabinets. Notes on the plan. It should get bigger if you click the photo so you can read it better.

    Basically, the only thing that changes is the stove wall. You could easily have a good cabinet maker make the additional cabinets you need to match the current cabinets. You may, however, need to paint all the cabinets to get a good paint match if just painting the new cabinets doesn't result in a good match. I didn't figure out how far down you can shift the stove but it looks like you could get a good 12-20" of extra prep space there. That increase should give you a nice prep corner with enough space to spread out.

    I would keep the charming countertops you have for all but the stove wall and splurge on counters that are cooking/hot pot friendly on that wall. Stainless would be great there and will really compliment what you currently have so it doesn't look odd or like a thoughtless add-on. Soapstone would also look great. Since you're done doing a lot of counter, these higher-priced tops would still be a minimal expense.

    The yellow is for a cart idea, similar to what MamaG came up with, but not inside the bottom of a wall cabinet. It is simply there so it can be moved to block access for visitors. A flip-up counter can be installed that hangs down the side so there is a place there for chairs and for someone to sit and visit with you while you cook and have a place for their coffee, appetizer, dessert, etc. It can also be used to help with food service at the table for items that might not fit on the table with people eating there.

    You say you like the peninsula because it does provide that barrier and place to sit but, really, it is the only real obstacle you have to an efficient kitchen that feels spacious. Removing it and just moving the stove down as far as possible to the end of that wall, even to the edge of the wall, should give you good prep space and make your kitchen far more enjoyable to work in.

    Anyway, just a thought, if you want to preserve what you have and just improve it. Of course, a good, well-designed and executed to-the-studs remodel would also be super-awesome. I just wanted to give you an alternative to consider.

    michfbgal thanked funkycamper
  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    funkycamper, way to tug at my already pulled heartstrings! If I go the full remodel route, I'm sure that I'm going to need a lot of wine before there is any demo otherwise I'll be right there along side you yelling "Noooo!" :)

  • michfbgal
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Based on all the input so far, I've mocked up a rough new plan without the peninsula, but incorporating MamaG's pull-out cabinet idea. I've also made the cabinet between the fridge and the doorway a pantry. I haven't incorporated making the range wall cabinets deeper yet only because I wanted to figure out a basic layout first and I would also have to figure out how to handle the bumping out of the range hood, especially since it is at the end of the run. (Don't mind that the uppers aren't all sized and placed properly - I'm still playing with the idea of a straight run on each side ending at the sink wall.)

    Also, since it was asked, I will be buying a new fridge - counter depth.

    My concerns right now:

    (1) I tried to add a drawer base between the range and the pull-out cabinet at the end of the run. Does that make the walkway too tight considering it is a main walkway?

    (2) Similarly, does extending that run infringe on the already small breakfast area too much?

    (3) If this was your layout, where would you put your pots and pans?

    As always, many thanks!!!