I have MIP, just in a pot still, but it did blackspot badly.

I love MIP, and I forgive her her blackspot. I love LO too (she also gets bs) but I think if I could have only one, I'd pick MIP. Her color is just so exquisite, I love the fact that she climbs, and of the two, she has much better bloom throughout the season.

If you live in a climate (neither too cold or too warm) where Austins can be floriferous for a long season, neither of the two OGRs may prove as floriferous.. far from it..

Nik's right. Location, location, location.

Both are probably wonderful roses, somewhere.

In my coastal SoCal garden, I have grown both. Both were dreadful here. Both had disease problems (Mme. Isaac had more of them). Louise O. declined to bloom here much at all, and grew 14-ft. canes. Mme. Isaac bloomed heavily in the spring, but declined to repeat.

IMHO, comparing Madame Isaac and Louise Odier is comparing apples to oranges. They are both fruits (or bourbons in the case of the roses), but very different flavors. Madame tends to be a big bush or climber with short stemmed flowers and can have long vine-like canes. Louise is more of an upright shrub. So depending on what you want from the plant may make your choice. Flowers are very different also. Madame has vibrantly colored (some say garish...) densely petaled quartered flowers with rich fragrance. Louise has lighter pastel warm pink flowers less densely petaled, and a strong fragrance but of higher notes. Sometimes it smells like plastic to me, like the plastic envelopes that clothes come in when they come in the mail. Louise seems to be much more fragile in the heat, but has better stems for cutting than Madame. I can't really comment on disease. So it just depends upon what you need for the spot or want in a flower. There are also plenty of cool pink shrub roses to choose from. Have fun!

I note the DA roses are still blooming great here, which echos Nik's comment re long blooming season. My Rose de Recht and Souv d l Mal and Reine des Violettes are still blooming here as well as Hybrid Musks.

I think Louise Odier is a little (just a tad, mind you) more disease resistant, and her perfectly pink and perfectly lush blooms with a hint of silver creaminess are absolute PERFECTION! She is the quintessential Victorian at her most elegant. She is what many might see and smell as the ideal OGR. Both LO and MIP boast a fragrance that may out-delicious all other deliciousness. MIP is a little more delicious. Love them both (in someone else's garden), but I love LO a teeny tiny bit more. MIP is a hair's distance second place. If I could grow her, I would in a heartbeat! Sadly, here in Portland, both are blackspot paradise. Interestingly, the Bourbon Zephirine Drouhin is fairly healthy for me and boasts pretty good rebloom. When I grew LO and MIP, I did get some rebloom from both in time. Carol

But again -- It depends heavily on WHERE YOU ARE.

In my own garden, Louise Odier had very short lived canes. No individual cane ever lived more than 18 months, and many turned yellow and died in less than a year. I have heard this from other gardeners as well. It also got a lot of powdery mildew and a fair amount of rust. However, it was both fragrant and quite pretty. The roses were on the smallish side.

I have seen MIP in the garden of others. The roses are much larger than those of Louise Odier. The fragrance is considerably stronger, too. I have heard it described as possibly the most fragrant rose in existence. I've also heard the same thing said about Gertrude Jeckyll. All I can say is that both are quite strongly scented. MIP is more subject to blackspot than LO is. I do not know how susceptible it is to rust, PM, or cane dieback.

Rosefolly

Well, I'll chime in, though Jeri may shout at me. I haven't grown LO, but have MIP. She gets all sorts of fungal diseases, and some cane die-back, but still produces lots of flowers. In the first couple of years she hardly produced a bloom after the Spring flush. Then she was hardly ever without a flower. The Winter before last, I pruned her quite hard, and cut out dead canes at the base. This was quite a bloody job. She only flowered in Spring. This year she has profuse blooms, but obviously, as it is still Spring here, I don't know whether she will keep on blooming. The fragrance is strong and heady. The only other rose I have experienced with such a heady fragrance is Abraham Darby, which completely defoliated here. I have found a milk spray seems to help with disease.

Trish

Location, location, location.

Yes, Jeri, but you seem to be saying that there is no point asking for or giving advice unless to a next door neighbour. In which case, why are we all posting?

Yep, I agree. MIP and LO especially require either the right location or a semi-right location and true devotion. Well, either way, devotion is helpful. :-) That said, I think MIP (and Yolande d'Aragon) may be the two most fragrant OGR(s) on the planet...probably even the (two) most fragrant rose(s) period I've ever smelled...ever! I'd suggest researching location and care, deciding whether or not the Bourbon wonderfulness outweighs the frustration and then choosing either MIP or LO according to the growth habit desired. See Noseometer's remarks. I'd absolutely grow both of these gals (plus Variegata de Bologna) in my current garden if I could do it without torturing myself! Carol

It is very, very difficult to give intelligent advice to someone who lives somewhere (one assumes) on planet Earth. There are often variables that the OP doesn't state and may not even be aware of that make certain roses either slam-dunks or absolutely ungrowable. My immediate thought on reading this post was that anywhere an Austin is having issues with blackspot, a long caned Bourbon is going to be even worse. However, there may be places that isn't true. Is that a place we are discussing? Who knows?

And on the subject of location it's amazing how even different locations within ones own garden - and even with seemingly similar variables - can affect ones success with a particular rose variety. I'll use Abe as an example as well. I have 3 large heathy Abe's in my main garden and, not too far from them, I have another. All receive full sun, no spray. The 3 in the main garden have had little to no BS but the other one almost completely defoliated this fall from BS.

I personally appreciate the hearing reports on disease susceptibility (etc) knowing that such items could potentially be issues for me and helps me weigh the risk of growing a particular variety. I greatly want to grow MIP but in my environment I am unwilling to take that risk.

Hi all,

Thanks for all the comments Much appreciated! The reason why i didn't mention my location is because i wanted to hear from your experience whether its good or bad about those roses. Location is important, but I also think factors like the potting mix, the container size and the type of bare-rooted rose that you recieve are also important too. I've tried growing Evelyn and Jude four times, and noticed sometimes they were great performers but other times they were weak.

Anyway, I've looked up both roses on Youtube posted by Jeffcat, and noticed that MIP has vicious thorns and the bush look gangling and lack the graceful habit, and i'm not sure if i would like the flower form. As for Louise Odier... the blooms are small and very similar to MofC and I already have Mayor of Casterbridge and is doing great in my garden. I've changed my mind and decided to give Madame Pierre Oger a try. Thanks!