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Unusual Cabinet Paint Peeling & Cracking: Have you seen THIS before?

Cat
7 years ago

I was told to expect some cracking with painted cabinets due to temperature/humidity changes, but has anyone seen cracking as seen in the pictures attached? I just had new cabinet fronts painted and installed, but the paint is cracking/peeling off in some parts, only parts with MDF. The cabinet maker is saying it's the paint and the painter is saying it's the cabinet. I'm at a loss and not sure how to fix this. If you have any opinions on this, I'll add more details:

I purchased cabinet doors and drawer fronts from an out of state manufacturer with great reviews and excellent customer service. The were delivered unpainted, and I had a professional painter spray them. He used quality paint and has been trusted by my family for more than 15 years for all painting needs. A month after they were painted, the paint cracked badly. At first, I thought it was what I was supposed to expect due to weather/humidity changes, but I sent photos of the cabinets to the cabinet maker and he said, no that's worse and looks like it's the paint's problem. The painter said this is how he paints most things and never had problems like this. The painter took one of the damaged doors to a handful of paint stores in the Chicagoland area and no one had suggestions for what happened or how to fix it and prevent it from happening again. Painter did one coat of oil based Zinsser primer, followed by 2 (sometimes 3) coats of acrylic paint meant for cabinets, sorry not sure the exact paint name. (BM Dove White)

The door rails/stiles were made of paint grade poplar with a mdf panel. The drawers are all wood, no mdf. ONLY the doors have the bad cracking. The drawers only have the "expected" humidity related cracks. So something seems to be going on with the MDF, but what and how do I fix it? Thank you for any insight! The last 3 photos show the cracking doors and the first photo shows "normal" cracking on the drawers (it's almost not noticeable on the drawers, but attached for comparison).

Comments (24)

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    that looks like a paint adhesion issue to me. Is it possible there was something on these MDF panels that prevented proper adhesion of primer and paint? Can you practically peel off the paint? take a putty knife and see if you can scrape off a large sheet of paint. does it come off pretty easily? If it does, then improper priming due to some barrier is going to be my guess.

    Cat thanked Beth H. :
  • disfromage
    7 years ago

    Beth could be correct that the proper primer wasn't used. It looks too as if maybe not enough time elapsed between coats, or the paint was applied too thickly along the panel edges and it's shrinking and pulling away from the routed edge.

    Cat thanked disfromage
  • PRO
    The Kitchen Abode Ltd.
    7 years ago

    Usually in 5 piece door construction the center panel floats in the grooved stiles and rails. As suggested by others, looks like the panel was glued or caulked which is likely interfering with the paint adhesion.

    Graham

    Cat thanked The Kitchen Abode Ltd.
  • suzyq53
    7 years ago

    Maybe try enamel instead of acrylic paint. I use enamel on furniture.

    Cat thanked suzyq53
  • Cat
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the replies, I'll keep sharing these with the cabinet maker and painter. Yes Beth, the paint seems to come off the mdf areas too easily. When I asked the cabinet maker if the mdf had been treated with anything that might affect the primer's adhesion, they said no. The panel is floating between the stiles and rails, and nothing has been caulked, but actually the painter was considering caulking it when he tries to fix it. I'm not sure if that's a good idea?

    I'm confused b/c the all wood drawers are constructed the same way and accepted the same paint just fine. Thanks again, I appreciate your thoughts. Would anyone have a suggestion on how best to prime mdf?

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 years ago

    it could be something as simple as someone wiped down the panel with TSP before painting, and failed to clean off the residue. Who know what was left on that panel? The primer he used should adhere w/no issues. Perhaps the Kilz special adhesion primer would be better?

  • PRO
    Linda
    7 years ago

    Does the paint have adhesion issues in the center of the panel or only at the edges?

    Cat thanked Linda
  • Cat
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    The adhesion issue is only on the edges of the panel. The centers look great and haven't changed since he first painted them.

  • tatts
    7 years ago

    If it's only at the edges, then it is almost certainly a moisture issue (shrinkage/expansion). I don't know how long they've been painted, but see what happens in the summer when the humidity rises. I bet the cracks get smaller.

    On the other hand, I can see places where the paint is peeling off the wood or MDF. If you see bare wood under those chips, then the primer didn't stick to the cabinet. If it's white under there, the paint didn't stick to the primer.

    And on the other other hand, I wouldn't have sprayed primer on those doors. That should be brushed on for best adhesion. The action of brushing works the paint tight into the surface; sprayed paint can just sit on top and not bond well. Spraying is fast, but not as good as brushing.

    Cat thanked tatts
  • User
    7 years ago

    It just screams that someone used a non paint compatible caulk at the juncture of the panels and frame. Like silicone. If that is the case, there isn't anything to be done to make anything adhere to it. That would be a replacement.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    7 years ago

    I think Sophie's got it.

    Cat thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • PRO
    Linda
    7 years ago

    Silicone contamination is a likely possibility. The other thought is the oil primer is too brittle to flex with the expected movement. I have seen that type of straight cracking in painted trim in older homes where there are several layers of oil paint. Oil paint continues to dry out and get brittle even after it feels dry to touch.

    The zipper look pull apart paint looks like paint over silicone.


    Cat thanked Linda
  • live_wire_oak
    7 years ago

    Yup, someone tried caulking that with silicone. You will never get that "fixed". You will need new doors.

    Cat thanked live_wire_oak
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    7 years ago

    The paint would never have stuck over silicone from the second it was applied, so the doors would never have even left the shop. This looks like some sort of "paintable caulk" that allowed the paint to stick, but didn't have enough flexibility to accommodate the movement of the doors. It may be fixable.


    As an aside, my wife worked for the GC building the new multimillion dollar paint shop at the Jeep plant in Toledo, Ohio, several years ago. They weren't allowed to build the building with any silicone anywhere. They didn't want a molecule of silicone from a urinal to contaminate that paint line.

    Cat thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    7 years ago

    Looks like caulking to me.

    Cat thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • PRO
    Linda
    7 years ago

    If you wish to experiment, try dewaxed shellac as a sealer.


    Cat thanked Linda
  • leelee
    7 years ago

    These are new cabinets straight from the manufacturer? Assuming these are not the first cabinets they've ever made. You'd think they'd have this figured out by now. New people on the job? New products being used?

    Cat thanked leelee
  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.
    7 years ago

    @leelee...the doors were purchased raw and then shipped to client...who then had them professionally painted in his/her area. That's why this is soooo funky.

    Cat thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • Cat
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I have been told no caulk was used. Like tatts brought up, the mdf shows under the cracks. It does seem like something went wrong with the primer, maybe being that the oil primer didn't fully dry like Linda suggested.

    The painter is going to take one door and attempt to repaint it with a different primer, let it sit for over a month, and see if it happens again before painting the rest. The drawers look great, so its just mdf doors that'll be repainted. The painting method hasn't failed him before though, so he is confused. The cabinet maker says their mdf normally takes paint better and it can brushed or sprayed on.

    What would you prime mdf panels with?

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 years ago

    you'd prime w/regular primer. If everyone is saying no silicone caulking was used, then something got on the mdf and prevented adhesion. I just hope he cleans it real well before applying his normal primer. If it stuck to the other mdf panels ok, then even more reason to believe that the door panels got tainted somehow.

  • PRO
    GannonCo
    7 years ago

    Has zero to do with panels being MDF. First cabinets should be sprayed with a cabinet specific paint. What he is using is a trim pain that flows out enough to be used for cabinets. Believe it or not it is actually more expensive then a waterborne or conversion coating.

    Latex based trim paints have a higher build especially in corners and that is also where expansion and contraction occurs.

    Most cab mugs build MDF centered doors solid which means they are glued and not floated. This eliminates most of the cracking with expansion issues and the mdf also helps.

    It isn't the panels it is the joint between the panels and the frame. It isn't a easy repair as latex paints do not feather when sanded and you will need some sort of filler. First you will have to address why the joints are failing and would agree some sort of caulking or even the glue used in the joints could be casing the issue.

    Make sure he warranties work as the more latex or heavy bodied paints applied the more this can occur when temps change. Hate to say it but that is a lot of work to repair correctly. Advanced can take 30 days to fully cure.

    Hire a cabinet painting pro not a house painter.

  • PRO
    Home Of Kitchens INC
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    We are having the same issue, but not this bad. 5 piece doors, maple stiles, MDF panel. There is no way to avoid it in general, wood will always shrink and expand, and paint dries up solid, it cannot compensate the wood movement.


    What I am guessing happened here is that wood has better adhesion, and when season changes, it shrinks and rips the paint off of the MDF panel. Its a very uncertain situation, easy to blame the finisher, but in my customers home there is no humidifyer for winter nor dehumidifyer for the summer. The shrinkage and expansion is insane but the issue is nowhere near this example.

    Was this ever fixed? I see it dates years back. Would love to hear the outcome.

    Thanks!

  • PRO
    Philippbar Cabinets and Millwork
    2 years ago

    Should have let the doors acclimate before painting. Just like you do a real wood floor