Gentle bump.

Look like everyone is out to gardening stores for Christmas shopping!!!

Only less than 0.256 inches goes into the mix.

Your photo is of sphagnum moss, not sphagnum peat moss. In photo below, sphagnum moss is on left, sphagnum peat moss on right. You want sphagnum peat moss.

Peat moss is usually of Sphagnum type or it can be of other types too? I see peat moss but it's nowhere written that it is made of Sphagnum!!!!

Can I just use peat moss? I mean if it is not Sphagnum peat moss.

Yes. Most commercial peat bogs are created from sphagnum moss but other plants are also involved in peat formation. It is the peat itself (or coir if peat unavailable) you are interested in, not necessarily the type of peat :-) The moss itself is just a dried portion of the plant - peat is an almost completely decomposed form of the plant and therefore a much more stable, almost inert, component, whereas the moss will break down and decompose over time.

Thanks for the reply Valdamir and Gardengal. I am now one step closer to 511.

Somewhere in my GW reading I saw a warning by Al to avoid peat made from reeds of some sort; I think the problem was that it's usually screened into very fine particles instead of the fibrous material in Vladimir's photo. I got the impression that it's less common than sphagnum peat, but I'd suggest reading all the info on the bag or checking the manufacturer's website.

I guess it is matter of doing with what I got. It is not Sphagnum peat moss coz they would have written so.

Maybe... maybe not...but I wouldn't lose sleep over it, because that was only one post out of the hundreds I've read. As Vlad said, using peat rather than the plain moss is the main thing.

I guess this is what you read and was lingering in your mind.

"The 5:1:1 mix:

5 parts pine bark fines, dust - 3/8 (size is important
1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please)
1-2 parts perlite (coarse, if you can get it)
garden lime (or gypsum in some cases)
controlled release fertilizer (if preferred)"

I couldn't find much info regarding difference between reed moss and peat moss, except that reed peat is 'usually inferior' (no explanation why); and difference in pH. I wonder if it may contain too much salt? Coco peat usually does, unless it is rinsed very well. Hope someone has more info.

Thanks, JS. I knew I wasn't making it up!

Rina, the second result for a DuckDuckGo search for sedge peat wasthis GW thread, wherein Al explains:

"Reed-sedge peat is brown to black in color, mucky and is formed from a variety of plant materials - reeds, sedges, grasses and cattails mostly. Although it can be obtained in different degrees of decomposition, it is usually more decomposed than Sphagnum peat. Therefore, it has a finer texture and lower air-filled poor space than Sphagnum peat. Its water-holding capacity is lower than that of Sphagnum peat too. This is not suitable for container use."

Dontcha just love the internet?

Lenore

I would think coir would be cheaper and easier to find in Aus. Plus it doesn't go hydrophobic like peat can.

Nil13, does coir heave salt in it that needs to be rinsed out? I've read about the stuff but have never used it.

Sphagnum moss grows on the top of peat bogs. It is harvested/dried/packaged for various uses. It has many uses for hort applications, but isn't generally used as a soil component. Sphagnum peat is partially decomposed sphagnum moss. It comes in about 10 different grades, but what you find in big box stores, nurseries, greenhouse operations and labeled sphagnum peat is what you want for the 5:1:1 mix.

Coir has issues that will need to be addressed for best results. Something I wrote about coir a while back:

Sphagnum
peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both
retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and
release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock
water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33%
saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and
therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be
used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to
compact, in the greenhouse industry, coir is primarily used in
containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many
sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also
be an issue.

Using
coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates
lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high
pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates
coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low
in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere
with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the
significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can
be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and
reduced yields.

I
haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs
(coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very
thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of
pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a
5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon
and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce
genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different
soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC
soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three
strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with
a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and
watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only
difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a
small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime
in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the
CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high
pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil.

The
results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the
CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in
the bark mix.

I
just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It
works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more
expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some
believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily
offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to
the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales.

That's
the view from here. YMMV

Coir
Study:
https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies

Al

Rob

I don't recall that Al suggested Pine Bark Fines as dust to 3/8th". I thought the requirement was 1/8-3/8". Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly. I sifted dust out of everything.

As I was planning / searching / preparing my mix, I had a lot of questions. I went back and re-read Al's instructions - it was very clear. The information can me overwhelming (it was for me), but it's all thoroughly covered in the original post.

Gibson - I've been growing for 30 years, and have had to read that entire thread 3 times. I still go back to reference it from time to time, so I think it can be a bit overwhelming for almost anybody.

The 5:1:1 refers to pine bark in measurements of 3/8-dust.

The "Gritty Mix" is from 1/8.

I usually remove the dust myself. Edit: Because the dust can be very hydrophobic.

(Gritty Mix")

Rob

Yeah it is from dust to that size. As the man himself said:

"The 5:1:1 mix:

5 parts pine bark fines, " dust - 3/8 " (size is important
1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please)
1-2 parts perlite (coarse, if you can get it)
garden lime (or gypsum in some cases)
controlled release fertilizer (if preferred)"

Halocline - Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking about gritty mix and getting the two confused. I've read Al's instructions multiple times too ... and still missed the "dust" part! I wasn't demeaning the writer - please forgive me if I did - I meant that most info is there; I asked a lot of questions that were covered ... My apology if I confused, misled or offended any one.

No worries. ;-) The only bad question is, the one not asked.

Rob

I was never good at maths. Proved again.
I did wrong conversions between gallons and litres.
Result: 10 liters or 2.64 gallons should have got approx 4 tablespoon of Dolomitic lime.
Guess what actually I put? Just 10 tablespoons.
Please tell me that it is not a big deal. Or that plants can't curse.

Anyways what can I do now?
I have Osmanthus which slightly like Acidic soil.
Gardenia thankfully got a sprinkle of Elemental Sulfur in the mix.

or make two more batches and no more lime, mixing them all together ...

As a father of two restless young ones my gardening time is heavily rationed by the HQ. Can I add a hint of vinegar to watering can? Or can I add some sulfur?

Or is there an acidic fertilizer I can add to water?

Vinegar work's, or "Miracid" by Miracle-Gro.

Rob

If you add an acid to try to compensate for toxic levels of Ca/Mg (the primary elements to consider in your dolomitic lime OD) you'll end up with extremely high levels of free Ca and Mg in the soil solution.

Al

Oh, I forgot he added too much to begin with. I'm OT.

Rob

I know I am sounding desperate but I want to make mixing more soil and repotting the plants to be last option.

When does the ill effects show? Immediately? Asking coz I see new leaves on Osmanthus.

The dolomitic lime was in form of powder. The first watering led to milky color water escaping from pot.

Are the pH testers in Gardening stores accurate enough to test the pH before deciding to do more soil mix and reporting?

I have bought a pH test kit from Petsmart that is pretty good. It is a solution that you add 3 drops of it to prepare soil sample solution in the test tube ( in liquid form ). It comes with pH color chart that you compare your sample next to it. This kit is sold/used to check fish tank pH . Last year I did some of my own tests also had done by professional lab. They were virtually the same.

the kit cost like 7 bucks and you can make 250 tests with it.

With the soil pH you don't need to be dead accurate. Even a half a point deviation on the pH scale should be good enough for gardening purpose.

Sey

I've used powdered Dolomitic Lime in the past, and the key is to add it to the moistened mix. Prepare the mix, lightly moisten, turn the mix, lightly moisten, and then distribute the Lime evenly over the batch of mix. Then stir the mix so that the Lime coats as much bark surface as possible. Let the mix sit for a time, or bag it for a few hours/overnight, et cetera.

Many of us do mix and re-pot the same day, but the very best method is to make the mix about two weeks ahead of time, which Al has always recommended.

Josh