PreM for sure. Get on a regular schedule & stick to it

The point to consider is that you have already lost the 2017 battle - it is mature and has seeded. You can spend time and money at this point but you will not kill it and replace it in time for winter (I know the area - I spend my work weeks in Getzville - just around the corner). The best plan at his point is to focus on getting down a good pre-emergent to control the crabgrass germination when the Forsythia bloom next Spring.

Are you in Tonawanda or is that just your Gardenweb handle?

Crabgrass often comes when people try to seed new grass in the spring...when crabgrass seed is germinating. What Andy said was that it takes time to kill the crabgrass and to seed new grass. What he didn't say is that had you started this process a couple weeks ago you would have had time to do all that. The crabgrass will die anyway when the frost comes. That is always too late for seeding. You could try to kill it now with a herbicide designed for crabgrass and then seed as soon as possible and get something growing even if it is not at full density. Otherwise you would be waiting until August of 2018 to seed the area.

First, thanks to Alex, Jake and Andy who responded to my question. Nice to get a good response from the members here in Gardenwood. Dchall, I lived in the Town of Tonawanda since 1969. Moved out to the Town of Boston (Southtowns) 4 years ago. And, I've been out to Plano a couple of times to visit my sister.

So, I went from 1/4 acre in Tonawanda to 2 acres of grass in North Boston. I am retired and enjoy my total of 5 acres. I have neglected the grass while working on numerous other projects. I did plant quite a bit of grass this year near the area I am having the biggest problem in, and I will be planting more grass in an adjacent area as soon as the heat subsides. I do understand that using a pre-emergent will preclude me from growing grass until late next year. Trying to kill as much of the crabgrass as possible and overseeding the worst area is not out of the question. I do have a couple of herbicides, messotrione and calcium acid methanearsonate. I am going out today to rake up, cut and bag some of the crabgrass. Yes, I know it is a band aid approach, but I want to see if it gets dark soon.

My plan for crabgrass next year is to try this Scotts product that prevents crabgrass, feeds grass and allows for seeding at the same time. Scotts Turf Builder Starter Food for New Grass Plus Weed Preventer

Thanks for the info Jesse. I didn't know they made that product. I will use it in the areas that I will be planting some grass. It also does have some additional weed control benefits, but apparently only works as an emergent for up to 6 weeks. Because my crabgrass was so severe this year, I will be using the regular Scott's spring feeding pre-emergent fertilizer in most of the lawn. That product is supposed to prevent crabgrass for up to 4 months. https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/lawn-food/scotts-step-1-crabgrass-preventer-plus-lawn-food

What helped for me is to find an average soil temperature website, maybe a local agricultural extension website for your location. Every season is going to be a little bit different right? The idea is to apply the product at just the right time so it will be effective. Too early and it will lose effectiveness, too late is too late.

The "weed and feed" products are sort of a compromise, you may find if applied at the right time for crabgrass control it's a little early for fertilization and vice versa. I like to load up the lawn with fertilizer in the fall, and a spring application of fertilizer isn't necessary as such. While expensive there are also some good spot treatment products like Acclaim that are effective against crabgrass to use the rest of the season. Be patient, it will take a couple seasons to see significant results. Keep the rest of your lawncare regimen on track with good cultural practices. Don't set the cutting height too low, fertilize moderately in the fall and the turf will thicken and help keep crabgrass from getting a foothold.

Thanks Ted. I did find a soil temperature website and did more research. I will definitely try to time the spring treatment better, and I'm sure the acclaim product will be necessary for a clean up when it gets warmer. I am going to also try a fall feeding this year. In the past, I never noticed much of a difference in the spring. This will be a much later feeding so perhaps the results will be better. I have always used Scotts products. I tried some organic fertilizer this year too, but wasn't too impressed with the results.