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jcorn1

Painting over dark wood which isn't valuable wood

J Corn
6 years ago

We have dark wood pine banisters on a stairway leading to the second floor as well as matching railings on a balcony overlooking the first floor. The entrance hall is high and dark ( no windows)


A decorator - who we like- has suggested we paint the wood, add brighter lighting and use a wall color which is also lighter.


We've lived with this wood for nearly 30 years and the dark color has been practical but does nothing to add light to the hall. Better lighting would help but not solve the problem. Would it be terrible to paint over the wood? I'm also afraid a lighter color would show scuffs or nicks more often.





Comments (54)

  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Vizualizemaven- no chance of a skylight, unfortunately. The roof over the entry hall is on the north side of our home, with several large and mature trees which would limit light, even when tree limbs are cut back - at least, cut back as much as possible without harming the trees.

  • songbird07
    6 years ago

    Can you share a picture of your stairs?

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    How MANY YEARS did it take to scuff/ ding up the "dark and not valuable" pine? There ya go.

    J Corn thanked JAN MOYER
  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Fix the lighting FIRST. Paint the walls SECOND. Painted stairs shows every scuff and chip. Try less permanent and more important changes before you go that route. One persons’s cheap pine is Simone else’s gorgeous original pine that adds value to the structure.

    J Corn thanked User
  • jlj48
    6 years ago

    My banisters are stained but my spindles only are white. Seems to be a nice contrast and brightens the stairs up a bit. However my risers going to my lower level are white which I hate. They show every scuff mark. I’m looking at alternatives for them, wallpaper, paint something so they don’t show the scuff marks

    J Corn thanked jlj48
  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    What is the current lighting? Have you already checked the bulbs to see if you are using the maximum wattage safe for the fixture? Old curly CFLs get dimmer and grayer. New LED bulbs can help dramatically.

    Plan to triple the light in the hallway first. If you have one 60-watt incandescent bulb in a ceiling fixture, replace it with one that takes three 60 watt bulbs or their LED equivalent. If you have a wall sconce, use a two-bulb fixture instead of one bulb. Add $5 LED night lights if you have wall sockets near the floor in the hallway. Then prime the walls and ceiling with white primer before making a decision on an off-white paint color.

    As we get older, we need more light to see clearly. Our older eyes can need two or three times as much light as when we were children.


  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    This is a very good article that brings up ideas on improving overall lighting, not just in kitchens. Some of the comments go into more detail, too. https://www.houzz.com/magazine/how-to-light-a-kitchen-for-older-eyes-and-better-beauty-stsetivw-vs~5392083

    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    See photos ( very old carpet is also going) . I added a photo of a door as well because the two identical doors in the entry hall are that same dark wood ( they each lead to a room) Molding over doorways? Same wood. .

    I like the idea of baby steps for the entry. I can handle new lighting and paint without flinching..

    It's been harder to embrace painting the wood primarily because the banisters have withstood 27 years of kids and various pets and their antics and still don't look too beat up.(or maybe they do, you all can be the judge of that)

    The carpet looks particularly bad because we're gutting a bathroom and I can't keep up with the constant brown dust or grit ( which is everywhere in spite of plastic over doorways, furniture etc)


  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    i also have no idea if the banisters are an outdated style but we can't afford to replace them.

  • Jennifer Dube
    6 years ago

    Your banister has lovely character. I wouldn't paint it white. We had a builder's grade yellow oak hand-rail in our condo that stood out like a sore thumb once we were done with the Reno. We painted it white and hated it. Just looked bad. So we replaced with a chrome handrail (our place is modern so that works for us). Just saying, don't pain that banister white. I think if anything fix the lighting and paint it black.

    J Corn thanked Jennifer Dube
  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    Was the house built in the 1970's or late 1960's? Are the knots typical of pine visible on the doors or the staircase? I'm thinking they could be fir. Pine doesn't usually take such an even coat of stain.


    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • PRO
    Lars/J. Robert Scott
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I would not paint it - I think you only need new carpet on the stair treads, and I would not paint those either. I do like carpet on stairs, to cut down on the noise, even though it is difficult to keep clean.

    J Corn thanked Lars/J. Robert Scott
  • Fori
    6 years ago

    Cute banister! If you do paint it (and I'd try all the other suggestions first because I like the dark wood on your doors and stairs), consider leaving the handrail stained. It'll be much more durable.

    J Corn thanked Fori
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    See photo which is greatly enlarged ( so he tiny, tiny nicks look like potholes). I can't really see any grain on most of the spindles. The house is definitely from the late 60s or early 70s. I ran the numbers and we've been here over 30 years and that doesn't count previous owners.

  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    As for the carpeting on the stair treads, we do like carpeting because the grandkids run up and down the stairs when they're here and carpet helps control the noise, so that they only sound line a bunch of rowdy, happy pups instead of a herd of thundering elephants.

    Plus there are at least 5 layers of old carpeting on the stairs, none of which we installed...and each layer seems to have been affixed using different glues or techniques.

    Getting down to whatever wood is there seems like it would be a nightmare ( could be wrong.)

  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    Nice wood closeup, thanks. Here is a fun site full of wood samples with different stains: http://walzcraft.com/cinnamon-w-6-36569/

    There are any number of wood nick coverups on the market. I like Howard's Restor A Finish.

    For new carpet, new installers should remove the old layers to make it a much sturdier and safer staircase. Too much uneven old carpet gets to be a safety hazard. For carpet color, I suggest getting a teaspoon of dirt from the yard, then choosing something similar in a medium, not dark, color unless you run a no-shoes household, in which case you could go with a lighter medium tan or darkish beige.




    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Love those photos. We have winters here so the dark carpet was practical till it got so old. Lighter carpet would have had to cleaned more often. I don't know what's in style but the green is a shag, although not a deep shag. I just want something practical enough to work with grandkids. We don't have a no- shoes household.

    .

  • jlj48
    6 years ago

    Oooh I would NOT paint that bannister. I love it dark. Just wipe it down with restore a finish to minimize scratches. I had a thick chocolate brown carpet installed on my stairs in my previous home and we loved it. Got lots of compliments on it. It was a close out remnant from Menards

    J Corn thanked jlj48
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I have restore a finish and it won't absorb into it. Here's what's weird: the finish on the banister has a sheen like something with polyurethane but I know it has never been polyurethaned. Its like it was stained and then a clear finish was put on it.

  • songbird07
    6 years ago

    Your dark banister has a great vintage look. I would change the carpet, paint the walls and increase your lighting first. Perhaps you could touch up the dark finish with some java gel stain?

    J Corn thanked songbird07
  • visualizemaven
    6 years ago

    Well, since you sent the photos, I have changed my mind! ;) yikes! As the expression goes, a picture is worth a thousand words..............especially in interior design!!!!

    The dark stain looks good for the style and I no longer think white paint would enhance anything. Java gel stain as songbird above suggests is a great idea - hides a multitude of sins and easy to apply.

    I'm longing for all the layers of carpet to be removed and the stairs stained the same as the railing. Then add your favorite style/color of a runner on the steps and change it out when worn/damaged but I think you can get a good bang for your buck!

    Then, paint the walls a soft, creamy white and improve the lighting and enjoy the changes and your grandchildren!


    J Corn thanked visualizemaven
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I've learned my lesson ( hopefully) about including photos at the start of a discussion.

    The attached photo is not anything I am suggesting for our stairs but should make sense if you read on. Our stairs are totally open between the treads, (sorry, can't get a good photo of that because its so dark ).

    wouldnt the open spaces rule out a runner ?

    I think the best we could do is put carpet squares on a portion of each wood tread (which is why I have the attached photo) ....and that's if only if we took off the layers of carpeting and went down to the wood before adding the carpet.

    I don't know how expensive that would be...removing current carpet, staining the wood, then adding the accents of carpet or runner pieces.

    Turns out that one layer of what I thought was carpet was actually carpet backing. So it's not quite as bad as 5 layers of carpet. I actually think there are only 2 or 3 layers of carpet.

  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    Each tread is wrapped in carpet? Like the attached photo? If you bring in a table lamp from somewhere, the extra lighting may be enough to take photos of the dark stairs.

    The Derelict · More Info

    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • songbird07
    6 years ago

    What sort of space is under the open riser stairs? Can you open up any side walls below the stairs to allow more light from below as well as above?

    Private Residence · More Info

  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I am so grateful for everyone's input.

    Yes, it is exacly like your photo. I'm also enclosing more photos to try and show how high the ceiling is..it's a sharply angled and very high ceiling in the entry. The stairs lead to a balcony overlooking the living room. The entry light is too small.

    And yes, the wall color is a sickly green which I hope shows in the photo. If not, just assume it's awful.

    I've Included a close-up photo of the entry tile because the horrid cloth currently on the floor is for protection while workmen go in and out for our current bathroom remodeling project, also desperately needed, but we had to save up for it and the entry.

    Because I've learned the importance of detailed photos, I hope the close-up,of the irregularly cut stone floor tile, ( intentional) and original to the house, shows well.

    We won't be changing out the floor tile. So any carpet has to work with that. And any lighting has to hold its own, both in brightness and in a size scaled for a very high ceiling. I can't measure the height because my tall ladder isn't nearly that high.

    If anyone is so inclined,suggestions for a suitable light which works with the stairs would be greatly appreciated. it is dark brown but with more variation than the photos may show. It's really lovely, with a nice but not overly glossy sheen .it gets plenty of praise.



    .



  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Floor

  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    We can't open up any side walls. One has support beams and goes to a master bathroom shower.The other has support beans and behind that wall is a kitchen pantry and much lower ceiling. .

  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    In this photo, lamps and furniture, etc are covered to minimize effects of dust from current bathroom remodel. This shows the view as one starts to go upstairs. Entry door is to the right of the stairs snd upon entering our home, there is a partial view and open entry to living room


  • songbird07
    6 years ago

    So if I'm understanding your pictures and descriptions correctly, you have no light hanging directly over the stairs? The light hangs from the second floor ceiling over the entryway below? Could you add some sconce lights on the staircase wall? You need lighting directly on the stairs to brighten it up. Maybe some lights like these:


    Custom Architecture · More Info

    a house in a garden · More Info

    Since you have a narrow staircase you don't want anything that sticks out too far.

    J Corn thanked songbird07
  • Bourbon Milkshake
    6 years ago

    Put me down for loving the "not valuable" pine, haha! And agree with suggestions to consider lighting first. Seems to me a few wall mounted lights might look lovely!

    J Corn thanked Bourbon Milkshake
  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    Your current wrought iron light is quite appropriate for the house style. Can you snag it safely and check the light bulbs to see if they are the maximum wattage for the fixture? A sconce at the bottom landing might work. Buy a $5-10 stick-on LED motion-activated light and try out various locations for a permanent fixture. Another option is rope lighting along the solid wall's stringer.

    If you have to scaffold in order to paint the walls, that would argue in favor of some nontrendy, classic off white paint color that will go with your flooring stones and new carpet, because it won't be easy to redo. Pick the carpet first, then the paint color.


    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Since receiving so much helpful suggestions, here's the game plan.

    First, paint the walls lighter and improve lighting. Then carpeting.

    The current overhead hanging light fixture may work, style wise, but it's too small and when we put in the brightest possible bulbs ,we discovered it's still not enough. If anyone has seen some great hanging fixtures in a coordinating style, I'd love a link,

    Based on other suggestions here , I'm looking at placing nearly flat wall lights along the stairway but the space is narrow and I wonder about that. They'd definitely be practical. I'm nervous about finding a style of those that blends with what's already here.

    I'm sticking with the original brown bannisters - and that's a relief since I love them. As long as I can add light to what is essentially a dark entry hall with a high ceiling ( no natural light or windows in the hall), I think I can make everything work.

  • songbird07
    6 years ago

    Some lighting suggestions (be sure to measure your space and look at dimensions of the light to see if it would work):

    Eight Light Oiled Bronze Up Chandelier · More Info


    Burnished Bronze Morgan 8-Light 24" Wide Chandelier · More Info

    Trans Globe 9 Light Chandelier · More Info

    Tuscana With Ivory Pearl Glass 9-Light Chandelier · More Info

    Claret 9-Light Chandelier · More Info

    J Corn thanked songbird07
  • visualizemaven
    6 years ago

    4-Light Vine Chandelier, Antique Copper

    Taking the style cue from your chandelier in the dining room (?) I think 2-3 of these, hung strategically from the slope of the ceiling, will give you enough light and a very good look.


    J Corn thanked visualizemaven
  • visualizemaven
    6 years ago

    Trellis 1-Light Mini Pendant

    J Corn thanked visualizemaven
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks for the nice variety and price ranges. Which ones complement the banister style best? In your opinion?

  • arcy_gw
    6 years ago

    Painting those spindles will be a chore. When one considers the time I wonder if purchasing already white wouldn't hold up better and be just as cost effective? In a lot of ways, the spindles will really not get ware. No one touches them, feet don't regularly knock up against them. Still the work of avoiding drips and even painting, the sanding first to get the paint to coat well...I would really look into the cost of more modern and prefinished spindles. We too had a very dark staircase. Ours was flanked in DARK paneling. We painted the paneling and have yet to tackle the very plain rail and spindles. DH is a DIY kind of guy and even he won't tackle that job. If we were going to go to all that bother, I think we would start with all new.

    J Corn thanked arcy_gw
  • laughablemoments
    6 years ago

    Besides increasing the electrical lighting, there are two other things that could make your entry and stairwell brighter.

    1. Replace the front door with one with a window.

    2. Install a window at the lower landing.



    J Corn thanked laughablemoments
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    As for replacing the door , it's not an option. Below is a photo of some sample panels on the exterior door. The entire exterior door is covered in those.

    It's a customized design from a previous owner and we like it ( my blurry photos may not do it justice and the lighting wasn't great today )

    Each tree is hand cut and slightly different. The door is original to the house,

    We aren't sure it goes with our home's style ( whatever style the banisters and doors connote) but many visitors love it and we're attached to it.

    . It's also a nice, heavy door on the ground floor , adding an extra security feature.

    Another issue: The door is on the north side of the house and there's a long covered porch outside the door. There's a wall along the east side of the porch . Behind it is our laundry room and a washer and dryer.



    replacing it would not add a huge amount of extra light.

  • visualizemaven
    6 years ago

    That is some door!

    J Corn thanked visualizemaven
  • l pinkmountain
    6 years ago

    Gorgeous door.

    I had painted wood banister and woodwork in my last house. It does show scuffs. And mine was the old oil based paint so much more durable than modern.
    This is how I feel about painting wood - if it has great grain and looks really good, then don't paint. I don't see either situation for your woodwork, but I also like wood and am really lazy so I would not paint.
    As far as bang for your buck, a new window is relatively inexpensive compared to all the years of joy it could bring you.
    As far as dark, your dark green carpeting is not doing you any favors. I had carpeting on my stairs at my last house and stuck with it because it makes the stairs seem less dangerous if I fell down them. But I would definitely go with an indoor/outdoor close weave kind of carpet, made for heavy traffic areas. Just do the treads if you need to save money.

    I love the idea of wall lights, sort of like what pot lights can do only appropriate for the style of your home. Gorgeous home details, BTW.

    Not sure how much your budget is and how much you want to tackle. I can't see how painting your woodwork will go with the style of your house and it doesn't seem like you want that much of a redo on everything else.

    Why do you have your entry way rug taped down? I could see adding a larger lighter rug there to tone down the dark of that groovy floor tile.

    J Corn thanked l pinkmountain
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    The taped floor covering is gone, only there to temporarily cover and protect the floor while a bathroom is being renovated in an adjoining room. There's plenty if dust and debris from that.

    We've considered an entry rug but those need regular cleaning and the stone floor, while dark, needs only a simple vacuuming and mopping to stay clean.

    We think we can work around it.

  • katinparadise
    6 years ago

    A lighting fixture with open bulbs or clear glass as opposed to opaque will help increase the amount of light. 4000K LED bulbs will give a soft white light as opposed to a warmer, yellow light, which should help with brightness as well. An off white paint color, as suggested, will also help. Good luck with your project!

    J Corn thanked katinparadise
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Thanks. I'm excited about how paint, lights and carpet ( relatively inexpensive compared to a major overhaul) could make a huge difference while allowing us to keep our dark bannisters and doors.

  • apple_pie_order
    6 years ago

    Please post an update after changes when you are ready.

    J Corn thanked apple_pie_order
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I will. I'm excited to get going on it! Based on a suggestion above, Imdid buy some inexpensive portable LED wall lights so I could see how that affected lighting along the stairs. They are low profile and not ones we intend to use as permanent lights but I can see how stair lights would add visual interest and extra safety, especially if they're motion - activated.

    I've been looking at white paint for the walls and reading Houzz threads about selecting paint. Is there a light color, a white, that works best with brown wood and similar tones?

    Putting paint samples on the wall after purchasing a new light should be helpful but using the method of seeing how natural light affects paint color, - at different time time of the day - won't be very effective because there really isn't much natural light.

    It's basically a very dark space when the lights are off. So we're going for a brightly lit ceiling fixture as well as whatever lighting works along the narrow stairs,

  • katinparadise
    6 years ago

    I would stick with a warmer white. Look for something with a higher LRV, which tells how the paint reflects light. 50 and up will give you a brighter look. Sherwin Williams Alabaster, for example, has an LRV of 82, which is good.

    J Corn thanked katinparadise
  • tatts
    6 years ago

    Don't paint either the banister or the door. They aren't of a style that should be painted. And that door is spectacular!

    The interior of the door looks like it's from Peachtree Doors circa 1970, but it may not be, given the outside.

    If you paint only one side of a door, the wood will absorb humidity differently on each side and it will warp. Doors need to have the same finish on all sides.

    J Corn thanked tatts
  • J Corn
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I'm delighted people like the door as much as we do. I greatly appreciate the info about how to choose an appropriate paint color. I knew nothing about LRVs. Now I do....or at least a start so I can research further.