We have a contractor who will have professionals doing th work. We've just read in a lot of places that brick veneer is not supposed to support anything other than its own weight and that using a ledger is not recommended or even permitted in some areas?

Sorry, but I have to disagree with Dytecture on this one somewhat. This is a detail that should have been thought out and planned for in the framing stage and accommodated by the brick veneer. Brick veneer is not an acceptable anchorage for the ledger boards, unless the imposed forces and weight have been accounted for in the brick installation. The ledger board needs to be anchored to the load bearing wall (in this case, the framed wall).

I do agree with Dytecture that unless you are familiar with the properties of load transfer, bearing, turning moments and anchorage, that you should bring in a professional for the design and construction.........deck failures are not pretty, especially when they are loaded with your friends and/or family members.

Well, since there was not anything done in framing stage to allow for the deck, what are our options? Freestanding only?

Amandaala, you are correct, brick veneer is not an acceptable ledger board anchorage..........check with your local code authority for the acceptability of the ledger board, this is one of those details that should have been looked at in the permitting review process. Some local authorities have prohibited the use of ledger boards, some accept them with properly installed flashing to protect them...........but just about all that I've ever worked in or designed for would nix any ledger board supported by the brick veneer........that is just a failure waiting to happen.

There are still options besides a free standing deck..........the first step is to check with your local authorities to determine if a properly installed ledger board is acceptable for your locale. Next step is to determine what the definition of "properly installed or code compliant" means for your area. Will they require structural calculations signed and sealed by the design engineer or architect? Your local code authority can and will answer these questions and get you headed in the proper direction.

Just because the brick veneer is already in place doesn't mean that a ledger board is out of the question as long as it is acceptable. You may have to make some modifications to the veneer and the framing, but right now everything is still open (assuming your picture is a current one). There are always solutions.

Another option is the free standing design.........I have seen some pretty nice free standing decks where steel tube columns were installed 6" from the veneer with an old New Orleans look to them (just for example). Just because you have column next to the house doesn't mean it can't look nice. The key is the design and the look you want..............................

Solutions abound, they are only limited to the extent of the mind and your budget................don't panic. Start with the code authorities and work from there.

Thomas, assuming no ledger boards, what is the best and most attractive way to complete the deck? Originally the supporting posts were to be cedar with a stone work detail at the base which is strictly ornamental and provides none of the support

Okay, now we'er getting some where.............cedar, rock.....what if you placed your support 24" away from the wall, with your original idea of cedar column and rock veneered base and the framing cantilevered back to the house? There are many options using the sizing and specific configuration of the members to accommodate a desired look.............The bases could actually be tied back into the back wall and made an integral element of the design...........

That sounds very doable! I like that. My husband is doing some investigating today to see what is acceptable with local building inspectors. Yes, everything is just like it is in the picture -- nothing has been started on the deck yet. Do you know where I might find some images of decks constructed with the framing cantilevered back to the house? I do know that of all the new construction I have seen around town, all the decks are built with a ledger on the brick veneer, so they are all apparently being ok'd by the building inspectors around here -- rightly or wrongly:)

Whatever you decide please screen it in you will find yourself doing it later. You can really enjoy it better.

Amandaala, here's a quick sketch illustrating in very basic terms what I'm talking about......there could be a joist header at the end of the beam supported by the column an inch from the brick veneer that carried the joist that ran parallel with the column beam.....or you just simple run joist perpendicular to the column beam with the last joist an inch from the brick veneer...........there are many options, it just takes some imagination and the know how to size the superstructure (columns, beams, joist, etc.,,etc) accordingly........this might be where your professional comes in. Myself, I'm not a big fan of decks hung off the side of a house unless they are included during the framing and framed accordingly. I would never support the ledger board by the brick veneer.....in my opinion and experience it's just not a good design.

Thanks, Thomas!

Question for the pros: why couldn't a ledger board be used if it were lag-bolted into the framing of the exterior wall?

It can be Grover, if it's done properly and flashed properly to deflect any rain or melting snow away from the ledger board. However, sandwiching the brick veneer between the ledger board and the framing was a no no on my designs or job sites. I've seen installations where the ledger board was lag- bolted or thru-bolted to a solid bracing (much like a header without the opening) that had been incorporated into the framed wall. The contractor then extended the bolts through the sheathing, air space and the brick veneer. The outer ledger board was bolted in place securely and the rest of the deck framing built. Now here's my take on that design.

1. The deck loads are being transferred to the brick veneer, the back bracing is really only keeping the deck tied to the wall and is actually carrying very little load........the loads would have to be transferred from the deck through the bolts to the back bracing for this to work, so the majority of the load is being transferred to the brick veneer. To compound the problem, it wasn't properly flashed. Brick is actually porous, it's designed (holes, air space, etc., etc.) to mitigate any moisture downward and out the flashing and weep/air joints at the base..........to top it off veneer is basically free standing (supporting its own weight) and is only attached to the framed / sheathed wall by ties for stability (to keep it from falling out away from the wall)
2. You have a weak element of the whole design, being that distance from the back of the ledger board to the face of the structural wall
3. This design puts undue stress on the brick veneer in the installation... think tightening down the ledger board, it can actually pull the brick veneer inward, breaking the bond between mortar joints and brick, thereby weakening the veneer even more and adding new points of water intrusion.

I have actually been called in to repair just such installations within 5 years after construction and found rotted ledger boards, corroded lag bots and brick veneer damage, not to mention the water damage to the inside framed wall...........all resulting in a total replacement of the deck and some pretty extensive repairs to the resulting damage of a bad design.

This is why I am, and will be to the day I die, a proponent that proper construction documents are the key to good construction.........and by proper, I mean detailed. I have seen permit documents that consisted of a floor plan with the electrical and ventilation indicated, a 1/4" front elevation and 1/8" rear and side elevations, a typical wall section from the foundation to the roof overhang, a plot plan and maybe a riser diagram of the service and plumbing vent.........3-4 sheets in the set.................that's not detailed. That's a builder's set that leaves virtually every decision to be made in the field as long as it meets code. What most home owners don't realize is that Code is the bare minimum required and this is why we have such poor quality construction being thrown up. I'm certainly not implying that all builders out there are taking short cuts, because I've worked with some very talented, skilled and dedicated builders who can build it right from a sketch on a napkin. They know their stuff and what works and doesn't work and more importantly what is better..........and we have some who take every short cut they can with the thought that as soon as they're done and out of there it isn't their problem.

My typical construction document set will have anywhere from 8 to 20 drawing sheets depending on the level of service and the size. A custom design may have as many as 30 sheets, again depending on the size and complexity of the design..............and you can bet, that if I have a deck attached to the structure, there is a detail showing exactly how I want it done and if the contractor can show me a better design you can bet I'll use it again.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Thomas. I hadn't thought about the stresses on the components between the ledger and the wall structure. Another day, another brain cell. Thanks again.

Thomas is correct on the brick issue. I read it quickly, so I may have missed something. Your concrete slab however, is also a problem for the free standing deck. THERE ARE NO FOOTINGS UNDER THE SLAB. You need footings for a free standing deck. We need dimensions and a picture of the plan to give any good advice here. How far out does the deck go? Just under the roof?

Did they even put footings on the outside edge of the slab to support the roof?

There are footings on the outside edge of the slab for the deck which will be under the roof and extend to just past the large window. If I understand correctly, the footings for the basement walls extend beyond the width of the basement wall and would extend under the edge of the slab nearest the house.

You may not be able to tell from the pictures that the house is on a walkout basement -- hence my basement reference above

Good news on the outer footing. The inside footing is still a bit suspect to me. How deep are the footings? Where do you live, climate wise. Usually the house foundation will come out as far as a brick ledge. That doesn't leave room for deck supports with concentrated loads.

Outside footings for outside of deck is 2 feet. The inside footers come out beyond the brick wall. We live in the hot Alabama south -- very hot summers, not very cold winters.

*are* 2 feet

Yes, I assumed right away it was a walk out basement. That is why I want to know your location. How deep is the frost line? Walk out basements concern me because I have seen lack of proper footing depth on them too often.

Sounds favorable on the footings then, would not have been the case up north.

The frost line here is at the most 12" and less than that in most areas -- likely 10" or less.

Fred, I suspect the basement wall footing has a step down haunch that is carrying the brick and will all so provide a shelf for the patio slab to sit on......at least that's the way I would do it.......an inner column would need a footing but that is easily accomplished.

Amandaala, I don't think your problem is as bad as it first appeared.to you now....there are a lot of options that you can go with at this point.......actually, I think the options open right now can give you a whole new look that is far more sophisticated, in my opinion, than just hanging a deck off the side of the wall.....I can see this being a really interesting and appealing place to gather....latter down the road, it would be a completely different story and a more costly fix.........Good luck and good timing in posting your dilemma.....

Yes, Thomas, something like that is the conclusion I came up with, but column placement is still critical. A concentrated load can produce stress fractures and sheer the concrete if it is not close enough or on top of the actual footing.

Thomas, how is the inner footing easily accomplished?

Amandaala, chances are your patio slab is still slightly green if it's been poured in the last 28 days.....even if it's been past 28 days, the slab is most likely 4" thick....... a concrete saw will cut through it fairly easy, dusty, but doable. Make the cute the same size as the intended rock veneer you planned on, so the when the rock is installed the cut is hidden......now comes the fun part., digging out a bell footing (wider at the bottom than the top. Since your frostline is probable around 12 ", go down 18" to the bottom of the footing dig out......dig it out at an angle from the opening cut so that when you get down to the bottom of the footing you have a 24"x24" base..... think of a pyramid with the top cut off......set your rebar, and pour the new footing and top it off level with the patio slab.....now's a good time to set your column base plate.............if you hold the inner column off the back wall, say 24", I suspect you won't have any problems. If you put the columns closer in, then you make your cut so that you can use some rebar dowels and tie the new column footing into the foundation.....finish off the patio as you planned. Just be sure to provide a bond breaker between the existing slab and where you pour the column footing level with the slab.........it will be hidden by the rock veneer, but is needed.

It really isn't a big deal for someone who knows what they're doing with concrete........of course my specifics are approximates but the principal is the same. Have your structural engineer size the footing accordingly to the loads to be carried and the soils condition.

Hi is there a door going out to this deck?

Yes, there is one door to the deck that comes off the bay area just under the covered portion.

I figured there was but wasn't sure it was planned in yet. The building code is specific about the height to step down so make sure your deck height is correct based on that.
Lots of good solutions here. If it was my house I would probably ask the brick sub to help me alter that area with a ledger and flashing. After all your contractor just hired him to do all your veneer work. He will probably try to be helpful, after his first reaction of grumbling at altering his fine job.

Yes, we are aware of the building codes for steps -- the plan is to step down from the door to the first level of the deck which will extend to just before the inside edge of large window; at that point the level of the deck changes by one or two steps to be lower in front of the window so that we don't have the hand rail blocking our view from the inside.

I think we have about decided to go additional cedar posts on the inside of deck along house wall with the stone veneer at the base to match the posts on the outside edge of the deck. I actually think it will be quite pretty:)

I appreciate everyone's opinions - unfortunately, we don't all have the good fortune to have engineers and architects to develop our house plans and have to rely on our builder to do the correct thing. I am thankful for everyone who has chimed in!

One more thing about concrete. When you cut square holes in concrete, eventually you get a crack off the corners of the hole. Just have them cut shallow control joints. Either parallel or off the corners at a 45 degree. You can make a pattern out of the cuts.

Here's a couple shots for all those who helped with advice. The railing and stairway arent there yet. We have 8x8 cedar posts at the outside of the deck and 6x6 posts against the wall on the inside edge of deck. That deck isn't going anywhere. We will be adding a stone veneer around the base of each post which matches the stone on the front of the house. It's going to be a great space:)