Attached is a photo of a-few-years-down-the-road result of: "the undermount sink is not attached a the mounting brackets provided by with the sink... The installer says he never uses those and just the silicone (or epoxy?) is sufficient. "

Uh, yeah, be nervous!

If you look closely on the left side, you see some remaining blocks where the installer blobbed a glob of epoxy and stuck it to the side of the sink.

It may hold for a while but maybe some time when you fill the sink with water, it won't......

There is no LOL IN THIS. Get/wedge SOME sort of temporary prop, even a 2 x4 under that overhang before it breaks right off and ruins the leg and foot on a dear HUMAN.. Like one of your kids. Then get on the "horn."........!! To the contractor, cabinet installer, fabricator. We are talking UN SAFE, in any kitchen, anywhere.

This spells PROBLEM below: Seams?? hahahhahaha

"The island countertop feels tippy... it is 3cm thick with mitered edges
to look like 6cm, with 12" overhang and we were told it doesn't need
additional support. But if you bear down on the overhang, you can see the other end lift off slightly"

I need a drink........a big one.

Your GC is a complete idjut. So is your so called KD. This is their failure to design correctly.

Ooh, but it has some flashy rims!

Oh. It would be JUST the counter top, not the entire ISLAND , No biggie.!!! You. can. not. be. serious. I hope your fabricator has fabulous insurance. Do you have ANY idea what this stuff weighs??? It won't "all" topple . It will crack at 12 x whatever long, fall to the floor and land on a foot. Or a little kid. It is unstable as installed. Counter tops do not jiggle or feel tippy. Period. They do not BEND. They break.

The MIA rule of cantilever is being violated. As are lots of others. Not just the counters. Your GC and your KD are pretty lacking in some darn basic knowledge.

Surely you understand the principle of a cantilever. Operable word being lever. The island is incorrectly designed and built. The GC lacked the knowledge base to integrate all of the elements together, or to correct the poor design.

https://www.naturalstoneinstitute.org/default/assets/File/consumers/homeownersconsumer_countertop.pdf

I think I can summarize: if you see a countertop move when you apply force you have a serious problem.

Elena - by “anchored” you mean by something other than epoxy/adhesive?just trying to make sure folks aren’t talking past each other.

Timmy, yes, i mean something like L-brackets. I know silicone adhesive is very strong, but it's between rough lumber (that was used to raise the cabinets to accommodate the mitre) and the counter top underside. Adhesive is only as good as the material it is applied to, and I guess i don't think the rough lumber is a good base?

indigoheaven, I fully intend to get this addressed, but unfortunately i do feel that the point of my original post was missed and the whole thread was hijacked for this tangent about countertop overhangs. And now I am left in almost the same position where i don't know how much of my other concerns need to be addressed. I know the island is an issue and will certainly get that fixed. But everything else?

The 2/3 1/3 cantilever is applicable for all counters. This is about weight, the pivot point, and the tipping force applied. Flexural strength is irrelevant to the applied forces of a pivot. You have a seesaw, with one end unbalanced. Every single Pro involved should know what happens when you have an unbalanced see saw. Starting with your KD. GC second in that chain. The countertop people are a distant third, as they aren’t designing your kitchen.

Please show a picture from the other direction, and the front view. What methodology was used to compensate for the build up thickness?

Sophie, the overhang is 12" and the width of the island countertop is 37", so the 1/3 rule is fine. Also, as mentioned, the manufacturer approves unsupported overhang of 12".

The installer used ripped down rough lumber to raise the top of the cabinets. I would have preferred to have plywood under the whole thing, and I might insist on that now.

I think it would be helpful if you could post more photos.

"1) What are your thoughts on this seam? When you look closely it's actually a very thin line, but I don't understand why it looks like a grey line... does that have to do with the cutting process? "

No. Your seam adhesive was mixed on site, probably by a man who statistically is 16 times more likely to be color blind than a woman (It's genetics, not sexism). In the lighter colors, installers need to use factory specified adhesive. I'm really good at this and I order factory for these situations.

"2) The island countertop feels tippy... it is 3cm thick with mitered edges to look like 6cm, with 12" overhang and we were told it doesn't need additional support. But if you bear down on the overhang, you can see the other end lift off slightly. Is it just the silicone holding it back from overturning?"

Could be. If your installer and his crew can't dance a Conga line across your cantilever, it ain't right.

"3) The undermount sink is not attached a the mounting brackets provided by with the sink... The installer says he never uses those and just the silicone (or epoxy?) is sufficient. This makes me very nervous. Is this typical?"

No, it is not typical. Your sink is coming down, I promise. All undermounted sinks must be mechanically fastened, with the exception of Karran Edge series. Strapped is better than clipped. The fact that your fabricator said this proves he is an idiot. You may tell him I said so.

"4) There is a thin piece of countertop being the slide-in stove. One of the joints failed twice when he was installing it, and I noticed after they left that the other one is cracked as well. I will be calling them back to fix that, but I wonder what is the actual issue? Is the joint too thick? Is the piece not properly supported (it's essentially not supported at all)? Any recommendations on how to improve this?"

This is too small to be hard seamed. Better to have a soft more conspicuous joint than a failed hard one. The seams behind my slide-in range are soft.

"5) There are spots under the countertop that are not contacting the cabinet and I think should have shims... these are Ikea cabinets so already the locations where the countertop could be supported are limited. What is standard practice for this?"

Don't span more than 24" without shim support, please.

Quick question. Are you planning on adding legs to the island to support that top heavy looking counter? I'll leave all the schematics of why this is done incorrectly to the pros but I must say visually that island looks completely out of proportion. Maybe if you add some legs to the over hang part it will help support the slab and help it not feel so "tippy", which by the way would scare the cotton pickin lights out of me, while also help it look more proportioned. It might be a win win.

Our quartz topped island has 3 L brackets. I don't have a tape measure handy but pretty sure our overhang isn't 12 inches. Maybe 10? I would never stand on it but I probably could. No tippy or any movement whatsoever. There is also a sink in the island. One of the brackets is at the sink.

*okay hubby just said he's stood on our counter to clean our pendants! He's done it once or twice! He's way taller/weighs a lot more than I do. He says he doesn't like doing it as he fears the countertop will crack at the seam (ours has a seam right in the center at the sink which is in the center. It held his weight.

Our island has angled support (invisible now that counter is on) you can see it in this pre counter cabinet installation.

New Home · More Info

New Home · More Info

Maybe something like that would give you added support on the overhang? Since you have the deep lip on your counter it could hide it.

Thank You Elena Nuta. What color is your island? We almost went with a navy island.

Elena Nuta I love the color. Obviously I am a blue person :-). Your wood is very similar to mine. I love it on the angle!

Elena, your IKEA cabs and colors look fabulous! Great design!

Hoping you get some answers and resolution, as everyone seems to think what the GC/KD designed isn't sufficient. I'd say so too if anything seems wobbly.... Good luck! Hopefully others will chime in when they see the underneath.... To me it just looks choppy, not fastened properly underneath....

Elena Nuta its SW Interesting Aqua. I hear you on the blue obsession!

We've been building our home for over a year now with a builder that has been really difficult. Lots and lots of errors and a 7 month late delivery. Word of advice.......don't assume there will be a battle. Don't ask if they will fix the issues, it is their responsibility to. Be matter of fact and Stay calm. Take emotion out of it (hard I know).

I did my bathroom tile floor in a pattern and I love it. I agree it adds so much interest.

"What is a soft joint? just silicone?"

Yes.

Elena:

After having seen his wood-blocks-spanning-the-flange-and-stone-bottom sink attachment method, I absolutely promise your sink is coming down. In fact the sooner it fails the better, because it's going to leak which can create more problems (rusting hinges, exploding rods), but mostly because leaks are horribly unsanitary. When your sink eventually fails, there will be a ring of brown crud covering the sink flange. If I haven't seen all this literally a hundred times, I will throw all my tools off the Sunshine Skyway bridge here in Florida and follow them over.

At 3cm thickness, your island cantilever needs no additional support.

Can the 'little guy' come back and fix his mistakes? LOL. How long has he been in business? Sorry you are dealing with this....

I disagree strongly with Joe on not needing additional support. The countertop itself is telling you that it needs additional support. Invisible support could have been easily achieved with a built up edge. And should have been designed into the assembly from the beginning.

Sophie, I agree with you. My answer was correct, but unclear. 3cm does not need additional support to cantilever 12", however, that does not address the OP's wriggling issue. Pulling the top, removing the plywood, and replacing it with square tube steel or aluminum that is screwed to the cabinets, extends over the cantilever, and hidden by the edge build up will solve the problem permanently and safely when the top is siliconed to the square tube. Thanks.

incorrect, discoveryspecialist. That is the standard for 3cm natural stone. We are talking about 3cm engineered stone which because of it's 35% resin content, has much more flexural strength than natural stone and can be cantilevered up to 15" without additional support. That's not only my opinion, it's the opinion of the estone manufacturers.

With a 4" wide, 8' long backsplash lying on the flat next to you, one natural stone and one estone, pick up each in the center. The natural stone splash will snap about 4" off the floor, the estone will not.

I agree with Sophie that the island looks unbalanced. The visual weight of a 6cm counter jutting out 12 inches from a narrow island is not aesthetically pleasing to my eye. I actually think that some columns at the corner similar to the other blue island posted about would help it appear as a more balanced design.

If it were me I would carefully document every problem, as well as making videos of the "bending" etc and consider contacting outside agencies (BBB, states attorney general) and as a last resort small claims court if the installer doesn't come and remove the entire countertop and start over. The seam needs to be matched correctly, the sink and range issues must be corrected, the island should be properly supported *just to be sure* with the hidden brackets. You may want to pay a local pro to come in and document all the irreconcilable issues with the current install if you have problems with the current installer agreeing to make it right.

"Our undermount sink is supported by wood though. No support for the sink would make me worry."

How is your sink supported specifically?

I'm looking for help:

we are in the process of having out quartz countertops installed. The installer emailed me the layout and how the seam would look with the veining we went back and forth a couple of times until I had a layout I liked. I know it's impossible to line the veins up perfectly, but I felt we had a pretty good look to it. The installers showed up with the slabs to be installed and they were not cut according to the approved layout. My question is, is this normal and what are my options? The guys installing were great, they stopped and said they would be back when we get it figured out.

Thanks for you help

Kevin B.