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jeff3610

single pane casement window with inside storm window

Jeff Dorenkott
5 years ago

Im on the north coast of ohio and have a lake house with casements windows. The windows have an interior storm window that can be replaced with a screen. My issue isnt with the screen. I just mention it to paint the picture. I have several windows that fog up between the glass. I often take the interior glass out and clean it to get rid of the condensation but it always comes back. I dont understand why some fog up and some dont. Any advice?

Comments (13)

  • geoffrey_b
    5 years ago

    I'm in Minnesota, have some Anderson Low-E casement windows. No storm window needed.

    Your windows are fogging because the seal between the two panes is leaking, and moist air is trapped between the panes. The windows need to be replaced.

  • PRO
    HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC
    5 years ago

    geoffrey b is on the right track, except that it sounds as though we are speaking of a removable glass panel as opposed to a sealed insulated glass unit. If fogging occurs between the glass on the latter, that is seal failure and needs replacement. On the former, you just don't have a great seal on that interior panel which is allowing moisture to get past and condensate on the cold outer unit. This concept is similar to older homes with prime windows that don't seal well so the moisture condensates on the exterior storm... Take a look at the seals on the interior panel to window frame interface and see what can be done there. You could even possibly use something like "seal and peel" sealant around it during the winter, although that can look messy and be a pain to remove.

  • Jeff Dorenkott
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    The seals look ok. Im going to swap some window panes between a clear window and foggy window to see if it follows the window or the pane.


  • PRO
    HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC
    5 years ago

    Jeff, there’s really no reason that it would follow the pane unless perhaps one piece of glass is wavy causing a bad seal or something along those lines. Sealing that pane to prevent moisture migration is the key, and the glass itself is probably the least likely variable here

  • Jeff Dorenkott
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    The pane of glass has the weather stripping around the edges so i was thinking that even though it looks ok maybe its not perfect. I think the windows are Andersens. And im surprised that more windows dont fog.

  • PRO
    HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC
    5 years ago

    If the weatherstripping is attached to the glass as opposed to the frame of the prime window, then swapping panels would be helpful in determining what is going on. If the result is improved in that location, the panel/seal was likely at fault. If the results are the same, it may be some environmental factors there, where there is EITHER more moisture there for some reason (kitchen, bath, plants near, etc) OR it is colder for some reason in that spot vs other areas. Either one of those conditions will lead to condensation sooner than other areas.

  • PRO
    Simply Great Windows, LLC
    5 years ago

    Jeff, do you have a picture of the interior? It sounds a lot like older Pella Designer Series windows with interior DGP. These have a removable interior storm panel that has a metal track around the permitter with a bunch of clips. Due to the large air space between the panes of glass and the lack of hermetic seal, they added vent/weep holes between the panes. You'll see them on the sides at the bottom (maybe also at the top). If you take a pipe cleaner and clean out these holes (they build up with dirt and bugs over time), that will likely solve your problem, assuming they're the brand I'm supposing they are.

  • Jeff Dorenkott
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Here is a picture. They are Pella. The holes look like they have been wet in the past. Im not sure what Pella was thinking by adding these holes. I assume the holes vent to the cavity next to the window. It seems like i get condensation when its cool/cold outside and the sun is beating on that side of the house. Im not sure how the vent holes should help. Can you explain?



  • PRO
    Simply Great Windows, LLC
    5 years ago
    Yes. That is undoubtedly Pella. The removable pane means there is no hermetic (vacuum) seal. As such, moisture can enter the space between the panes anytime the interior is removed (as well as when the interior was initially put on in the factory). Those holes allow for circulation to mitigate that issue. I'm not entirely clear how that works, but you should see improvement by cleaning the holes with a small pipe cleaner.
  • Jeff Dorenkott
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks. I looked at the windows from inside and out today and appreciate the situation better. The problem window is the center window in a set of 5. The center 3 dont crank open. I just realized the two sashes left and right of center look like a newer mode. The vent is more of a slit very close to the bottom rather than a hole. So I am thinking the old owner had some replaced. Also I see now that the sash from the non cranking newer windows (left and right of center) are actually cranking windows with the cranking hardware removed and add a screws where the latch would pull the window in. The problem window from outside looks like it might be a cranking window with hardware removed also but the inside trim work shows no screws or hint that it might be a cranking window. So I wonder if this older window is just better sealed and traps moisture better. Thoughts?


    Also are these Pella designer series good windows by todays standards? They are only 16 years old and I see caulk added as outside glazing on many windows. The old owner had Pella service these windows often. Thanks for all the quick replies. This site seems very well monitored.


    Cheers,

    Jeff

  • PRO
    Windows on Washington Ltd
    5 years ago

    I think you will find that most folks prefer other wood windows out there over the Designer series. Depending on where the caulking is, it could have be prescriptive maintenance or it could be compensating for leaks in the cladding.

  • PRO
    Simply Great Windows, LLC
    5 years ago

    @WOW is right. Most people prefer other options over the Designer series. The reason to prefer the Designer series is blinds/shades between the glass. If those aren't present, there are better options out there. It's also likely the caulk you're seeing is to combat an older cladding design from failing.