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oldalgebra

Teeny Tiny 4th Floor Condo Kitchen

oldalgebra
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

My friends entertain often - and food is always front and center. But their small kitchen makes it difficult. The kitchen opens to the living room. (A swinging door presently separates the two spaces.) A neighbor has the same floor plan and was able to widen the opening, but a major part of the supporting wall must remain. The door at the end of the kitchen opens to the hallway and must remain as well (Note the flip up shelf attached to door).

Presently, the washer-dryer and range are on the left, while the dishwasher, sink, and refrigerator are on the right. A small pantry hides behind the swinging door. I've encouraged them to get rid of the swinging door NOW. All of this can be rearranged.


I think the washer-dryer combo can be moved to the back bedroom, but I'm not completely sure that can be accomplished. I think the refrigerator belongs in the place presently occupied by the washer-dryer. Storage and counter space are practically non existent.

The dimensions are approximately 120" deep by 100" wide. Perhaps some storage cabinets can be built on the other side of the separating wall.

Hope this is not too much of an overload. I wanted to give as much information as possible. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Comments (26)

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I would not think the W/D can be moved usually moving plumbing in a condo is not allowed. They could get a W/D combo unit to give them more counter space , a smaller counter depth fridge . I would like to see a floor plan of the kitchen and pics of the surrounding areas but sometimes matching buffets on either side of a kitchen door are great for extra counter and storage.We are in Europe very often where there are some really tiny kitchens but Europeans do not have giant fridges and often they are under counter along with tiny freezers and the owners shop most everyday for food.There are ways to make tiny spaces better but you need to rethink what you really need .

    oldalgebra thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • User
    5 years ago

    You know what helps? A Kitchen Designer who can do a scale drawing and explore the limitations forced on the situation by the condo.

  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    Herbflower, the occupants want more workspace and storage space. They are moving a number of items from their more permanent San Francisco home in hopes of making this New Orleans condo more comfortable.

    Yes, Patricia, I can see that a counter depth refrigerator would help. The occupants are two empty nesters, so even if they needed space for additional party foods, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I have a counter depth refrigerator in my house and don't miss the space - no more forgetting about the stuff hiding in the back that spoils before you ever see it again.

    I had forgotten that one could buy a washer/dryer in one single unit, that will add a lot of space! Thanks so much for that suggestion.

    Health reasons make daily shopping difficult. Their health is one reason why I am suggesting they have drawers, not cabinets, for below counter storage. Less bending down to reach "way in the back."

    Again, thanks for the comments. Sometimes the smallest idea brings the biggest benefits.

  • felizlady
    5 years ago
    There are rules and regulations in a condo building, maybe even a board of directors, or maybe just a management company. You may need approval in advance before you change anything. You can’t relocate the washer and dryer unless there is proper plumbing and power in the other location, and adding plumbing for a washer may not be possible.
    Give us a proper to-scale drawing with measurements, showing doors and other features. Then we can help with a few hundred ideas.
    oldalgebra thanked felizlady
  • partim
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    My son lives in Europe and has lived in several flats where there is a combined washer/dryer in one unit (condenser units). They don't dry well at all - takes forever. https://www.consumerreports.org/laundry/all-in-one-washer-dryer-can-do-it-all-if-you-give-it-time/

    oldalgebra thanked partim
  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Felizlady, I understand about the rules and regulation in a condo building. I own a condo myself.


    I suspect there may be the needed plumbing and wiring for a washer/dryer move, as a bedroom closet backs up to a bathroom sink on the other side of the wall. Still, one never knows what will be allowed. In addition, keeping the W/D in it's present location would save money..


    I do not live near my friends (and they are back in SF at the moment), so additional information is not possible now. I realize I've asked for help with VERY LITTLE input on my end. I hope I don't seem entitled. If I do, I apologize to all those who frequent this site.


    My "job" is to try and think about some of the possibilities before the owners call in a designer/contractor who may or may not mention certain options that are available to them.


    Again, thanks for all the timely responses.

  • gella81
    5 years ago

    My number one priority in terms of functionality would be to have the sink and range along the same wall, with main prep area in between. In the given space - along the right wall, starting from the inner wall: sink (single sink installed over a 36" cabinet would leave enough elbow room without sacrificing counter space), DW, base cabinet, range, 12" pullout cab for cooking oils etc. Sizes can be adjusted depending on whether the owners are open to swapping appliances for apartment sized models, but they should end up with approximately 50" uninterrupted counter space. Along the opposite wall, leaving the W/D in its place, I'd put the refrigerator next (standard depth would 'hide' the W/D from view) and use the remaining ~60" as a landing space for all small appliances (coffeemaker, toaster, etc.) and secondary prep area. As an alternative, 15"-30" can be used for a pantry cabinet.

    oldalgebra thanked gella81
  • blondelle
    5 years ago
    Mine is even smaller at around 86" x 84". It still give me enough space to cook and entertain if I wanted. The previous owner left a full size washer/dryer in there which is going! If there's a closet right next to a bathroom you should be able to take the water supply from there and use stacking units in there.
  • blondelle
    5 years ago
    Wanted to also add that there are so many food delivery services now. Just order online and it's at your door soon after. A 24" fridge will still hold enough food for a few weeks though.
    oldalgebra thanked blondelle
  • writersblock (9b/10a)
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    There is at least one all-in-one that offers a choice between condensing and venting, if the current dryer is vented. ETA It's true, though, that the offerings in the US are generally paltry compared to what's available in Europe.


    For a fridge, I would take a look at the GE GLE12HSLSS, which is counter-depth, 24" wide with not much venting space needed around it, and more importantly, the only small fridge that has freezer drawers rather than drawers behind a door. There are some cheaper options, but not having to bend down behind a door to open a freezer drawer would be worth it to me. YMMV

    oldalgebra thanked writersblock (9b/10a)
  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Yes, a two-in-one ventless washer/dryer would help. I own one and they do take a long time for their cycle and the loads need to be smaller to ensure everything gets thoroughly dry. However, the plug is a standard 3 prong 110v outlet --great for spaces that aren't equipped for standard laundry hook-ups! (I have a youtube link for set-up if you're interested) All you need is a water source which can easily be adapted to hook up to a bathroom sink's plumbing. If they have a large enough bathroom for this, that might be a great option to create more space in the kitchen.



    As mentioned above, a counter-depth fridge is also a great space saver.

    Do you by chance have more photos of inside the kitchen? Hard to see much of anything.

    Hope this helps!

    oldalgebra thanked User
  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Oh my gosh! These are such good suggestions to get the creative juices flowing. Thank you sooooo much. I am going to see if my friends can contact their neighbor and see if the neighbor will take some pictures and send to them - and then my friends can send to me. I will add them as soon as I receive them.


    Glo, I would love the link.

  • mimimomy
    5 years ago

    I don't think that is such a small kitchen. I love small kitchen anyways, lots of times so much more functional than large ones. However, I agree the swinging door should go... eek! Would love to see the existing floor plan.


    ApartmentTherapy has some great small kitchens!

    oldalgebra thanked mimimomy
  • gella81
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If the neighbour can make a sketch with measurements, it would be more helpful than any pictures. Knowing the window location would be great as well.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago

    For sure! Here is the video we used to connect our unit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4CaWZvVgE

  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Glo,

    Ingenious!

  • ptreckel
    5 years ago
    Consider replacing the swing door with double glass French doors. Or....a barn door? Perhaps even one that is a glass door. I hesitate to offer that as a solution, but in this case, if a minimal degree of privacy is desired, it might be a solution!
    oldalgebra thanked ptreckel
  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    gella81,

    The more I think about your layout suggestion, the more I like it.

    I have a question. When you suggested starting with the sink next to the "inner wall," did you mean the wall that separates the kitchen from the living room (and ending with the range and pullout spice rack against the wall that separates the kitchen from the condo's common hallway)?

    In other words, placing the range and pullout where the dishwasher is now.

  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Here are the additional pictures that the neighbor sent. Hopefully, some measurements will be coming shortly.





  • rantontoo
    5 years ago

    They will need to meet local code...stove against a side wall would not fly in my area. Having a sink against a side wall would probably be okay here, but I would want some elbow/splash space.

    oldalgebra thanked rantontoo
  • oldalgebra
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Rantonotoo,

    Gell81 suggested a 12" pull out cabinet between the stove and the side wall. That should meet the code.


  • gella81
    5 years ago

    oldalgebra, I somehow expected the sink to be further back, so I assumed the range could take current refrigerator's spot. Anyway, it really does not matter which way you run them, the core idea is to have a decent prep area with sink on one end and the range on the other, leaving minimal elbow room on either side. Where I live, there are no restrictions on placing an electric cooktop next to a side wall (gas would require fire proofing), and its a common set up in most buildings. Apparently, so is in New Orleans, as its exactly what your friend currently has.

    In order for it to work, the opposite wall needs to be organized in such a way that this precious counter space does not become a dumping ground for random bits and pieces. It would be up to the owners to analyze their needs and habits, and to allocate sufficient space. Assuming the pantry goes and the W/D stays, its another 60" to play with. Personally, I'm not a fan of pantries and tall cabinets and would rather have more counter space. It would allow someone to come in and grab a drink or a snack without interfering with the cook, and can serve as an additional prep zone if cooking together.

  • gella81
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Another idea I'd like to toss out here. It's a common setup for contemporary European kitchens - two tier upper cabinets, the upper tier being 24" deep. I failed to find a single such picture from a US source, but it can always be accomplished using over the fridge cabinets. I believe it can really work in your friends' kitchen.








  • partim
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If they are going to replace appliances, choose a stove with a glass/ceramic flat top surface. When entertaining, I use mine as extra counter space.

    The door at the end of the kitchen should be treated to the same paint as the kitchen. It will make the room look more spacious. Paint the trim around the door the same color too.

    You might get lots of good ideas from the UK Houzz site. Those folks are more used to smaller kitchens like this.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I would look into getting a microwave with a vent and mount it above the stove. That alone will free up a bit more space. I would also find a paper towel holder that mounts under the top cabinets. I would either put the coffee maker on the shelf on the door and convert that area to a mini coffee bar OR get a mini rolling cart. Then, I'd remove the shelf from the door or get a thinner, wider shelf and place it higher so it looks like a floating shelf. Small things like that add up in a tight space.





    Hope this helps!