Do you ever entertain? When we entertain most people hover around the island & like to sit down. I personally never sit at ours, but our guests always sit there. My best friend has a huge island with no seating & when we are at their house I always wish there was seating there.

I agree about moving the fridge to the wall adjacent door at bottom, which both reduces its visual impact and provides more usable counter space near sink. And it's not too far from sink, we have a similar setup and it's not a problem.

As for furniture layout, you might also consider a longer sofa opposite the two chairs. Whether or not there is a TV has a significant impact on layout.

RappArchitecture, there will be a TV mounted on the wall over the fireplace. Below is is something I'm trying to achieve. We are not fans of big couches. So, combination of love seats and accent chairs will be used instead of 3-seaters below.

Mrs Pete, Thanks.

Random thoughts:

- I'd go with a pocket door from what I assume is a mudroom into the kitchen. It's going to stay open most of the time. Sounds like a good space saving idea.

- Ideally you want all your food storage placed in the same general area, so I'd move the fridge to the side nearer the garage entrance. A consensus is developing towards it and I like it.

- Pantry cabinets are considerably more expensive than a simple pantry closet, so I'd consider a set of bifold doors. I don't see a workstation here /out of the main area as useful.

You mean, just some in build shelves with bifold doors? That may work. If possible, can you attach a pic?

- I'm sure you intend to include a range hood. Yes!, forgot to add it (it's my first pass, details are just emerging)

- Does the island have cabinets opening on both sides? Yes

- Where's your dishwasher? Where's your trash can /recycling? Dishwasher will be on the right side of the sink and trash will be on the left side of the sink

- Depending upon your sun orientation, I'd vote for larger windows over the sink /perhaps more windows on the side with the range. Sink is facing east. So, that would give me a lot of sunshine in the morning. I though about windows on the range side. It's north and wooded and facing neighbor's garage. Also, that takes out my cabinet space. So, not leaning for a window there.

- One thing upon which this board is fairly well agreed: Large, single bowl sinks rule ... old-fashioned, builder-basic double bowl sinks drool. :)

- Go with a sliding door to the deck ... you don't want to deal with the space for an inswing door by the table. Good point.

- I agree those accent chairs are oversized ... my little short legs would have to stick out like a child's. :) I just estimated it to the scale to see how much space I got.

- Where's your TV going to be placed? How about some nice built-ins by the fireplace? TV will be on the wall above the fireplace. Like the pic I posted in the above comment.

- What's your sight line as you enter from the foyer? Be sure it's not the edge of a door. Just started with this plan. Have to work around to make sure that the sight line is not an awkward one.

Im adding some of the suggested changes above and will post the revised design soon.

Wondering if the door next to pantry can moved, even A little?

Here is the updated design with most of the comments included. Extending the island for seating with legs appears to give a crowded feeling for me! Now the kitchen island is 8ft and running a beyond the kitchen line....

May be something similar..

ldecor54,

I think that door can be moved a bit as this is my rough drawing and a designer should be able to do it. To which direction would you like to change it? towards the pantry? and is there a specific point?

the new plan looks much better. you are off to a good start

from the overhead view....try upper left corner of island at right angle....opposite or lower right corner in semicircular form …..depending on overall dimension you choose the curve allows great seating...and is nicely different shape from rectangular table

Moving door to accommodate rfdg better Was the idea. Or do not have a return towards the door at all. Run the rfdg and stove on the same long wall. move stove up providing space on each side, then rfdg., leaving space on sides to open rfdg door properly of course. A designer will help tremendously

This would make more sense. This way the prep space is facing the stove which works better. Plus now you don't need to figure out what to do with two perimeter corners.

Thanks, cpartist, for that effort. I have two comments.

I'll move the ref next to the door as I think that would be visually the best place for the room. But if I do so, the current size of the island wont work out. I have to cut it short to 72" instead of 96" as there wouldn't be enough space between the red and kitchen island to move around if its 96".

Thats too many seatings in the family room. I'm a moderate minimalist and would like less clutter and more free space around!

I would go with function over form & keep the fridge where you had it. I also don't care for island seating.

You mean, just some in build shelves with bifold doors? That may work. If possible, can you attach a pic?

Bi-fold doors are just one way to do this, but a reach-in pantry something like this will be astronomically less expensive than built-in pantry cabinets.

trash will be on the left side of the sink

In a cabinet?

I though about windows on the range side. It's north and wooded
and facing neighbor's garage. Also, that takes out my cabinet space.
So, not leaning for a window there.

Even though that's not the ideal side, I'd go with 1-2 small windows on that side. Light from two sides always trumps light from one side.

That means your family room space faces South ... definitely you want windows flanking your fireplace.
Like the pic I posted in the above comment.

This pic? Note that the fireplace is almost at the ceiling. Mock this up -- just cut some cardboard the size /height of your proposed TV, and sit down /watch it for a bit. See if you're satisfied. It's a no-risk test.

Just started with this plan.

I'm glad to see that you're flexible and are open to reason /making adjustments.

Plus now you don't need to figure out what to do with two perimeter corners.

Agree. Perimeter corners are an evil necessity in many kitchens. They're less efficient than straight-run cabinets, and they cost much more.

If you don't want seating at the island, don't have seating at the island. ;) It's an open area with lots of nearby seating for guests. I have a large island (8 x 3) with a large, long table running parallel to it. My sink is in the island, facing the table.

I have back-to-back cabinets on slightly more than half of the island - the rest of the side next to the table has a 16" or so countertop overhang only because I had 2 outrageously expensive bongo stools from a previous kitchen that needed to be put somewhere. People still sit at the table and not on the stools.

Thanks, cpartist, for that effort. I have two comments.

I'll move the ref next to the door as I think that would be visually the best place for the room.

Are you more interested in form or function because where you have the fridge, next to the door is not as functional. It means you're crossing the cooking zone.

Normally how we cook is we take food out of the fridge/pantry, bring it to the sink to wash, and then prep usually between sink and cooktop. See how now you're crossing the cooking zone?

But if I do so, the current size of the island wont work out. I have to cut it short to 72" instead of 96" as there wouldn't be enough space between the red and kitchen island to move around if its 96".

No the island will be shorter, but you have lots of space between the sink and cooktop for prepping. What are you planning on using the island surface for? Without a sink on it, it's not really a great prep space since it means washing the food at the sink and then carrying it across the aisle to the island and then carrying it back across the island to the cooktop.

I agree with Mrspete that it would be a nice idea to have windows on either side of the cooktop. I have my prep sink on my east wall with a backsplash height window and I have a window on either side of my north cooktop. It does help to brighten the space a lot. (BTW: My fridge is to the right of the prep sink.)

As for seating at the island, no one says you need to design an island with seating. That's a personal decision. We use ours. You may not.

Thats too many seatings in the family room. I'm a moderate minimalist and would like less clutter and more free space around!

I was just showing another idea for seating and showing that you actually have the room for a sofa versus a love seat. I'd keep the love seat and the two chairs and get rid of the love seat if I got rid of anything.

Where will people sit when you have company?

Mrs Pete, Thanks for that bifold pantry picture. I never thought about it and it's a great idea and I would go for the inexpensive way!

Trash cabinet will be on the left bottom side of sink in a cabinet. In that way the trash will be in between the sink and cooktop to easily "throw" things.

Window on the range wall...

I think you have a valid point there. Now I see that small windows would help the room much more open and bright. Let me look into some pics and see how to optimize window and cabinet space.

In that pic the TV is bit higher. I too noticed that. I just kept it as a model.

If you want to keep the TV above the fireplace, I highly recommend a Mantel Mount. I have one and it works great.

I found something close to my design online

Another layout I like is below, with the ref at the end os the range wall. I really dont want to keep ref at the end of the sink wall as it block the visual continuity.

Thanks, everyone for the valuable comments and suggestions. This is pretty much my living space where me and my family spend most of the time. Now, let me go ahead and design some space to sleep :) .

Special thanks to Mrs Pete, your suggestion to pantry shelves was awesome. I really saved some bucks there. I saw another pic and loved it. I think I'm going to build this!

You are planning a counter depth fridge? Just clarifying. some of your clearances May be tight and you definitely want a counter depth with the fridge near the mudroom door. I would double check the fridge dimension and be sure you want counter depth.

i like the original fridge location better. with the revised plan you will have a dark corner next to the fridge with it so close to the corner. Also the fridge is a bit far from the sink.

I like caprtist ‘s plan best, possibly considering a smaller island without seating and a bit more distance between the range and island.

roccouple, yes I do. I hate those humungous refrigerators and will by counter depth one.

How about the seating like this? I really dont like the "table and leg look" of islands. If I choose seating, then I would go for stools than overhangs with huge chairs.

cpartist, one thing I noticed in your pic is that, in that island orientation, it wouldn't be 96" long and it runs more than the kitchen dimension (kitchen dimension is 15.6 ft and with the drawing you got it's coming to 16.5 ft). Plus, isnt 36" distance to the door bit short?

cpartist, one thing I noticed in your pic is that, in that island orientation, it wouldn't be 96" long and it runs more than the kitchen dimension (kitchen dimension is 15.6 ft and with the drawing you got it's coming to 16.5 ft). Plus, isnt 36" distance to the door bit short?

Actually your width is almost exactly the same as mine. Mine is 15' 8".

You are correct in that it wouldn't be 96" long and no I don't have it at 16.5. If you notice, I did shorten the width. Yours would be 82" long. Mine is 84" if I remember correctly.

And no the 36" to the door is fine since it's not a working aisle. My space between my cabinet and my island is exactly 36" too.

Are you thinking about putting a prep sink on the island?

How about the seating like this? I really dont like the "table and leg look" of islands. If I choose seating, then I would go for stools than overhangs with huge chairs.

The problem with sitting at an island or anywhere without an overhang is if you want to reach the countertop, you're turning sideways and then leaning over which is very uncomfortable. There is a reason the NKBA suggests a minimum of 15" overhang for counter height seating.

Like you, I don't love the table and leg look either. How about something similar to what I did so from the side it just looks like a wide cabinet? Then you can tuck the stools completely underneath when not in use. (I purposely got stools with backs because DH and I are getting older and find having a back to a stool much more comfortable.)

I changed my pantry from a walk in to a reach in with double doors, best thing I ever did in our kitchen!! I love it! and wayyyy cheaper than cabinets!

One comment about a counter depth fridge is that you can sometimes have a regular depth fridge simulate being counterdepth by recessing it into the studs of the wall. It may something to consider and gain you more fridge space.

EJ, I like your plan to put the fridge on the range wall, and, especially with that option, I like cpartist's orientation of the island. It means that the island is smaller, but more functional for prep, if you include a sink. As you prep, you'll be facing the room, rather than the corner.

I included the windows on each side of the range, and a pull-out between the fridge and wall, to make sure the left side door opens far enough to pull out crisper drawers.

Mama, I like your version.

He could still have the 82" island and the 36" aisle on the bottom side of the island. If I were him, I'd want the extra space on the island and not in the aisle there. :)

The only 2 reasons I didn't put it where you did is because he mentioned how he didn't want it to be seen from everywhere and I thought seeing it directly from the living room would be worse than seeing it from the side?

Plus I think he said he didn't want a prep sink?

And yes on the living room with the two lounge chairs and the 1 sofa.

For the OP, the dining table doesn't have to line up with the sliding doors. Mine is right next to the sliders and it doesn't line up. I have a chandelier hanging in the middle of the table and no one notices that the door doesn't line up with the chandelier or the table.

It would still work without the prep sink, although it's another step or two between the sink and fridge. That's basically the L layout I have--fridge, range, and sink--and no prep sink on the island. I do a lot of prep on the end of my island, just across from the sink; I find it more pleasant facing the room rather than the corner--but I don't have windows beside the range.

Re: seating at the island. I have a 10 ft island. Dining very close with (eventual, lol) 10 ft farm table. I did not want island seating..period. I want folks to use the table.

i have two grown daughters that talked me into using part of the island for 2-3 grandchild size seats. Haven’t found seats I like yet and kind of wish I had stood my ground. The seats just aren’t necessary with my dining so close. and that space could have been used for even more deep, tall drawers which you can never have too many of! Still love my island, but think I would have loved the extra drawers more than the seating Space. I can picture 6 big drawers there.

if you don’t think you need island seating, don’t plan for it.

Beautiful island, ILoveRed, but I understand about the seating. When my kids were young, we ate every meal at the table, and I had a small work-table in the kitchen. After I added an island with seating to the kitchen, my grown children and grandkids prefer having meals at the island. We plate at the range, so it's closer, therefore easier, with small kids. We have seating on three sides of the island, but it's just not the same as sitting around the oval dining table.

One thought on fridge placement.... If you entertain and/or plan on using the deck and outdoor space, then where it was originally was perfect for people to grab a drink or snack and head outside. Moving it to the other wall doesn't lend itself well to that scenario. It may be unimportant for your lifestyle, but something to consider if you plan to have indoor/outdoor space be seamless.

If you didn't want the fridge hanging out on the end or impeding the dining room space, one thought is to put the sink in the corner, move the fridge in toward the sink a bit and leave a small amount of counter space on the end between the fridge and dining room. If the flow is to be able to go out to the deck, that end area could be for a wine/coffee bar or counter space to serve things from.

Just a few thoughts if you hadn't already gone there and ruled that option out.

Thanks, everyone for all the comments. I was on vacation and didn't check the post for 4 days. I like mama goose_gw zn6OHs idea to place fridge at the left bottom corner. in that way, it's easily accessible to the sink and range and is not impeding the dining area and the look.

I'm going to incorporate cpartist and mama goose_gw zn6OHideas and going to incorporate both.

I'll update the post with rest of the rooms soon.

Here is the rest of the house I thought would be. Essentially, I want to have these on level 1.

=> A guest bedroom with bath as we get some older relatives visiting regularly and need a first level sleeping space. Plus, where I live, first level bedroom houses sell for best value.

=> A powder room

=> A coat closet

=> A formal dining room

=> Foyer/entryway for front entry and stair (no clue how to lay it out)

I did a very basic drawing to place my needs on the paper. No specific reason why I placed it in certain way as I'm not a designer by profession. All experts and designers out there, please bear with me if something was drawn completely nonsensically and against design principles!

I have attached two pictures. Main confusion is where to place the stair and how to layout the foyer.

Stair in the center. Then what to do with the space right to the mudroom.

Stair in the center. Then what to do with the space right to the mudroom.

Is this a new build? And this is your design for the house?

If so, I hate to tell you it doesn't work well. You have a large foyer that opens onto a bedroom? Plus you have no clue what to do with it?

After you enter the mudroom, how do you get to the foyer, etc?

Dining room is too far from kitchen and how often will you use an actual dining room?

I feel like the dining room is too disconnected from the kitchen and the foyer is way too large. There's soooo much wasted space in it. How often would you use a formal dining room? Is it really necessary because if not, it'll end up being wasted space as well.

Also, does the guest room need its own private bath or could it double duty with the powder room?

Is the kitchen in a corner of the house? If so, I'd have some windows on the range wall.

I generally despise this question when others immediately ask it, but are you working with an architect? The main floor seems a little disjointed.

I havent started yet with an architect (well, you can tell that!). Again, I just placed it on the paper and is going to change and may totally end up with a new layout.

cpartist, yes. the foyer is too large. I was also baffled with my own drawing. Again, I just placed the rooms I want without much design ideas. Your questions are valid and I'm taking a serious look at it.

ArchitectRunnerGuy (on these forums quite a bit) does plans remotely. I'd look him up and inquire about his pricing. He's done some very nice layouts that are practical and functional. Personally, I would want a larger living room even if that means taking space from other areas.

Is he an architect? Where is he based?

Yes, he's an architect. I think he's based in one of the Carolinas but I'm not exactly sure which one. He works remotely, though. Several on here have used him for their plans.

Okay. Thanks for the info.

He's based in Delaware.

You are going about this all wrong. I know it's fun to play architect but this proves you're not one. :)

The best thing you can do is to put together a list of your needs, wants and wouldn't it be nice to haves. Create idea books with looks you like for everything from the exterior, to the kitchen knobs, etc.

Then if you feel you must do something, do a bubble diagram. (Look up bubble diagram on here to see what we mean.) Those and how you want to feel when you drive up to your home and when you're living in your home are the only things you need to bring to an architect.

I apologize because I made the assumption this was a reno and you were working with the layout in your first post.

What shows you are going about this all wrong is you're honing in on the details (like where to put the dishwasher and fridge), yet you don't even have the big picture yet.

I'm an artist. When I start to draw, I don't start with the eyes on the face. I first get the general placement of the figure, then rough in the lights and darks and the general overall feel. I then slowly start to refine everything and the more I refine, the more detailed I can get until finally I can start to detail the eyes, nose and mouth.

A good architect will work the same way, only they'll consider the interior, the exterior and how the house sits on the land all at the same time. Not until they and their client have honed in on the overall look and feel, will they start to refine to first room sizes, then things like closets, then get into the details.

thanks cpartist

I'm going to contact some of the local architects first as they may be the best first option to give me the local resources, building style, better estimates, etc. I'll be back soon.

Quick update on the kitchen design (this is where my family spend most of the time. So, I'm kind of obsessed with it! :)) I decided not to put windows on the cooktop wall to maximize cabinet space and minimize heat loss during winter. Also, the fridge will be on the range wall or next to the entry from mudroom. The pics below will represent more or less what I would like to get. At this point, I'm leaving it to the architect or kitchen designer to fine tune it.

You can't fine tune a kitchen design before you even have a house design and you don't have a house design. One drives the other.