Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
abode19

Loba Supra 2K & AT combo

abode19
4 years ago

i am installing white oak rift sawn floors in the house. We have a lab and 3 kids and while I know we will have wear, I want to protect as much as possible. I like the Loba Supra 2K AT for this reason. Contractor is suggesting the Easy Prime + 2 coats Loba Supra 2K + 1 coat Loba Supra 2K AT. Any reason to do 3 coats of the AT instead of 1? I suppose the cost of 1 coat is being factored.


Also so what is the suggested coverage of the 3 coats per square foot?


TIA

Comments (92)

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    SJ McCarthy,

    Thank you very much for the extremely straight forward and direct answer. I’m feeling truly educated.

    You may have a bright future in technical writing for flooring magazines.



  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Also G&S and Silverline, thank you for all the help on my journey of new floors. Truly appreciate it

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    So as I understand it, the Bona is actually masking some of the undesirable yellowing and ambering of aging wood because it has a whitener added, while the Loba's base formula does not. The YouTube video I posted earlier includes a discussion of how to add whitener to Loba if desired.
    Yes, thanks @G & S Floor Service and @SJ McCarthy for taking your time to help with the expert advice!

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    I really can not add the whitener, because the red oak becomes pinkish. I have red oak on the first floor.

    I rather keep it at the Invisible natural spectrum. Also I’m planning to add UV additive to my last coat.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    Loba 2K Supra A.T. doesn't already have a strong UV inhibitor? That would surprise me, but thanks for the warning. I will look into this. The wood I'm using, cherry, is highly UV sensitive.

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Loba produces a UV Protect. It can be added to any of their products. You will need to know which layer to use it with when working with your wood. The UV Protect won't do much for fading. I had already contacted Loba regarding cork (cork is notorious for turning 'off-white' after 1 year in sunlight). I was told it doesn't work that way. It prevents photosensitive woods from getting darker...it doesn't protect against fading.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    Thanks, @SJ McCarthy! So, the UV Protect would be useless against something like walnut that fades but would keep my cherry wood from going darker. Very interesting, and I will give this some though. Thanks! Some cherry wood darkens to a beautiful dark maroon, and some seems to turn more toward dark orange. I actually like the lighter color of the freshly-cut cherry wood and wouldn't mind having UV Protect added to keep it lighter, so we'll see.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I wanted to update this thread with information I found out this morning from a representative at the North American Loba-Wakol customer service department. I was told that Loba's EasyPrime only changes the color of the wood a very slight amount. The Loba Invisible "locks in the natural color of the wood," but I was told to use 2 coats of Invisible if using that product as a sealer. It would appear from this video by City Floor Supply on Loba WS EasyPrime that only 1 coat of EasyPrime is needed followed up by the first topcoat within 1 hour for adhesion purposes.

    After re-reading this thread, I found it interesting that @David Valasek had seen horrible tannin pull with Loba Invisible on white oak and was hoping to avoid that by doing a thicker first coat on both white oak and red oak floors, recommended at 1.5x the normal coverage by @G & S Floor Service. That is before adding the top 1 or 2 coats of Loba 2K Supra A.T. The pros are generally recommending to do at least 2 coats of the A.T. over any priming coats. It sounds to me from my research thus far that WS EasyPrime is a better sealer to prevent both tannin pull and grain raising with waterborne coatings. The WS EasyPrime is waterborne and formulated for use under waterborne coatings.

    Also, I was told by the Loba rep today that the UV-Protect product doesn't work for the darker woods like cherry and mahogany. It was formulated for light woods like maple and birch to keep them from yellowing. There would be no benefit to adding UV protect to a coating for American Black Cherry, as will be my application.

    @David Valasek If you have results from a test patch, I'd be very interested to hear how the Invisible coating goes for you as a primer. Thanks to everyone for this wonderfully informative thread.

    Pictured below are photos from a demonstration of Loba WS EasyPrime followed by another demonstration using Loba Invisible Protect. The color changes seem very similar to me between the two products, so I am questioning the use of the Invisible when the properties seem a bit inferior in some ways to the WS EasyPrime, especially when the A.T. is being used as a topcoat, not the Invisible alone:





  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    I don’t have the samples yet. I think that the invisible dries to natural, and the easyprime stays darker. That is what I have read. I should be able to post some pictures in 10 days. I will try to post the tannin pull.



  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    That’s the link for that Invisible tannin pull.


  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    Good point about the two priming agents drying to different tones. I will do more reading on the Invisible. I am about to order the products for myself and really appreciate this discussion. The photos posted above were, obviously, of EasyPrime and Invisible while still wet.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek After doing more reading on both the potential Loba priming agents (Invisible Protect vs. EasyPrime) and top coats, I wanted to provide an update with more information for anyone still keeping up with this post. Loba's Technical Data Sheets provide a numerical gloss rating for the finishes measured at 60 degrees on glass. Here is how the following finishes stack up:

    2K Invisible Protect, Approximate Gloss Level = 9

    2K Supra A.T. Satin, Approximate Gloss Level = 25

    2K Supra A.T. Semi-Gloss, Approximate Gloss Level = 43

    2K Supra A.T. Glossy, Approximate Gloss Level = 130

    What those numbers tell us is that the Invisible Protect is a tad shinier than a flat matte which would be considered anything at 5 or below measured at 60 degrees on glass. The Supra A.T. satin and semi-gloss finishes are consistent with their names, while the glossy is a super-high gloss almost like a mirror. There's a huge jump between the semi-gloss and gloss. The semi-gloss is on the low end of gloss, and the glossy is off the charts by some calculations on the high end of gloss. As mentioned previously in this post, the Loba satin finishes can look cloudy after several coats. Some people use gloss for the base and then finish off with satin, but that can make repairs difficult mixing sheens.

    As far as the WS EasyPrime darkening the wood, I've looked at as many resources I can find online, and my conclusion is that yes, it darkens the wood about the same as if you took a wet rag and wiped it across your wood. The advantage of EasyPrime is that it prevents side-bonding, which is the tendency of water-based top coats to seep into the cracks of the wood and bond them so tightly that they have nowhere to expand and contract with humidity. This can lead to structural damage. The Invisible Protect is supposed to be self-sealing, but there are at least two reports I found online of people who had extensive tannin pull using the Invisible Protect as a base coat on white oak, and Loba also does not make the claim of side-bonding prevention with the Invisible Protect.

    To sum up, the WS EasyPrime sounds like a superior primer, especially when working with white oak to prevent tannin pull. However, to someone putting priority on the lightest look possible over performance regarding both tannin pull and side-bonding, the Invisible Protect is the best option taking into consideration a risk that the finish may need to be re-done if tannin pull occurs.

    Note also that places like City Floor Supply, one of the larger suppliers of Loba products online and in store to North America, sells both the "AT" and non-AT versions of these finishes. For ultimate durability, you want to be sure to get the Invisible Protect AT or the 2K Supra AT if using these as a top coat.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Silverlined,

    good research work.

    The city floor supply company has a video with Loba Sales Rep doing the Loba invisible, he makes a statement, that even with white oak, it doesn’t need sealer.

    It may have anti bonding properties, and prevent tannin pull, but for this purpose is marketed the Easyprime.

    Who really knows.

    I already purchased the Invisible and Supra AT, 1 coat invisible, 2 coats of Supra AT semigloss and last coat of the same in Satin.

    Thats my plan. I just don’t get why they recommend 2 coats of invisible.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    You can call Loba customer service if you like. That is what the representative told me over the phone, 2 coats of Loba Invisible Protect if using it as a sealer under something else. I know the Invisible is marketed as a stand-alone sealant, but I did find 2 separate posts online, one at Reddit, which you referenced earlier, and one here at Houzz where Invisible alone produced noticeable tannin pull on white oak. There's a good chance it will work all right for you. Just make sure your first coat is thick enough. You can use the Loba 120 micron roller following instructions in that video you mentioned to make sure you are getting 500 square feet per gallon coverage. I purchased my products today and went with the WS EasyPrime under 2K Supra AT for American Black Cherry.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    David,

    The reason why two coat of Invisible is recommended under Supra. You have to abrade the finish when you change over to Supra. If, you only have one coat of Invisible and it is thin in some areas. You run the risk of screening through to bare wood. When Supra is applied, those bare spots will show up as blotches, because Supra is not clear like Invisible. And it will tannin pull. When you apply two coats, you avoid the risk. Avoid the WTF moment and apply two coats of Invisible.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Hi G & S floor service,

    That is a good point.

    If I put the first coat heavy, wait and hot coat the Supra...then abrade.

    Can I do this scenario instead?

    I have 1480 sf , bought 4 gallons of Invisible and 9 gallons of Supra. Will be screening with yellow Norton Sand dollar pads.

    Appreciating your advice.


  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek As you know, you only have enough Invisible to do 1 heavy coat on your floor. There is a re-coat time window in which the next layer won't adhere well in between the same exact product, and I think it's 2 to 3 days or something like that, maximum. The point of that is that unless you can run get more product locally, you would have a hard time ordering and having shipped to you more Invisible in time if you changed your mind and sanded between the change in products and found you needed extra Invisible if your 1 heavy coat wasn't enough.

    You can do up to 2 coats per day. I don't know if Invisible and Supra AT will bond without a sanding layer, but the EasyPrime and Supra AT are designed to bond as a primer/topcoat combination. You put down the EasyPrime and then 1 hour later, roll the Supra AT. In contrast, The Invisible has to dry longer than 1 hour, and it is also self-sealing rather than designed as a "primer," so I don't know how well it would work to follow the "sealing layer" of Invisible with a topcoat with no sanding layer to provide the bonding grip. Hopefully @G & S Floor Service will get back to you or you can call Loba at (800) 230-6456 to confirm.

    These products do sand nicely. Loba has a pad with air holes that will allow the dust to be suctioned up if you use a vacuum sander, so it's almost a no-dust sanding if you use that method. I would definitely test a patch with the method you are thinking about doing and see if you get the bonding needed, which you said you were planning to do. You can do a pick test where you try to dislodge the top layer with your fingernail or something sharp. You can also do a tape test where you try to lift up the top layer with tape. These products are expensive enough that if it were me, I'd want to screen the Invisible before the Supra AT just to make sure those Invisible sealant properties were given a primer-quality grip.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    3 years ago

    From what I’ve been instructed by the loba East coast rep. is to abrade when changing over from Invisible to Supra. Regardless of how many coats has been applied. The label states differently. A lot of products have a labeling issue. It’s nit up to date.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The technical data sheets and product listings on Loba's home website aren't all correctly listed, either. It's strange a company with such technology put into their products wouldn't spend time keeping documentation up to date.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    So....

    talked to the rep from Loba.

    Basically, he told me that, if I want the Invisible color and look, morning heavy coat of Invisible, wait 4-6 hours, hot coat Supra AT, following morning abrade with 180, coat again, wait again, abrade and finish.

    He assured me that there will not be any adherence problems since it’s all in family.

    one curios thing, he said if I wanna use Easyprime and have invisible look, I can add loba whitener into primer to achieve similar look.

    I will not do that since I do red oak as well, and want to avoid pinkish tones, I am ok with natural red oak , upstairs is white oak.

    Last thing, he told me that Invisible is self sealing and doesn’t cause side bonding.

    What you guys think?


  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek All I can say is that I am really glad Loba-Wakol USA has such good customer support, because otherwise the documentation is lacking in this information. It sounds like you purchased the right amount of product for this approach, except you will be planning for one extra top coat than recommended by the rep on the phone, which is fine. I've actually read about people not getting the full water and stain resistance with Supra AT doing only 2 coats and that 3 is better. I'm curious to hear how your project turns out. I will not be able to start on mine until another few weeks. Best wishes to you for a smooth process!

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Thank you everyone who had chipped in in this discussion.

    I definitely learned a lot, which is always positive experience.

    Again , thank you.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    I’m confused. Seems like there are directions In UK and US.




  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    The pictures are bad for some reason but the point is same product, different wait times for intermediate sanding. US product 2-3 hours, UK product earliest sanding 8-10 hours after application.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    Those instructions are for 2 completely different products. If you got the Supra AT, then follow the AT instructions.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    They are both 2k Supra Advanced Technology

    I think they are not formulated same way.

    Its different for each market.

    Im planning on screening before last coat, 6 hours after application of third coat


  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    The sheets do both have the "Advanced Technology" logo, but one set of instructions is for the non-AT formula, and the other is for the AT formula. Loba-Wakol produces instructions in English only for the Great Britain market, so no instructions for the USA market exist. According to the AT instructions, your earliest screening can be 2 to 3 hours after application. That's a good point you noticed that you can wait until the next to last coat for screening. I will keep that in mind for my own application as well.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    I will still screen twice,

    I don’t feel comfortable to screen only once.

    The installers start next week and I should be done with the Loba coats by end of the week.

    I will post pics. Good luck to you as well Silverlined

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Hey guys, I’m done with the floor but missed a spot.

    can I just mix a little of the supra AT a touch up with brush?

    thanks

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek I missed your most recent post somehow that you were done. What did you end up doing for your missed spot? I would love to see photos if you have time to post.

    I'm about to start my project this weekend. I'm curious what grit you used for your screenings. I have purchased 220 grit for my project but wasn't sure if I should do finer on the last pass before topcoat. Also, did you have any problem with the fumes during application?

    On the missed spot, I've heard that any of Loba's 2K AT products are hard to touch up without getting lap lines. They also so hard that you'll also need a really rough grit like 60 to breach the surface. If you caught the missed spot within 2 to 3 days of your previous coat, you could brush on new product without sanding, but after that, adhesion is questionable without sanding first, or so I've been told at this other thread.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Hi Silverline, yes I am finished. So first the touch up is fine, it blended real good. I ended up doing easy prime and 3 coats of loba supra AT.

    I first tried the invisible and that was mistake.

    Its impossibility for one person to keep wet edge, the product absorbs imto raw wood quickly and leaves lines.

    it needs in my opinion at least 3 people. One cut corners and two rolling the floor right behind each other.

    I had to get the floor sanded again.

    fumes are bad the same day, it’s all gone after a week. Lastly the finish is not as hard.

    new floor is already scratched up from my dog a lot.

    but overall it done and we’re happy that it’s behind us. Finish looks nice, sheen satin.

    one more thing, I think that the bona is harder finish. I had it done 10 years ago and held up well.

    take care and good luck.

    oh yes.... I used 180 sand dollar from Norton abrasives for buffing, it is super smooth. Great pads.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    One last thing, the Loba Supra AT is pretty slippery in comparison to Bona.

    So that’s about it.

    I would choose different product next time.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek Thanks so much for your replies. For some reason I wasn't seeing your updates show up in my notifications, so I just now am reading this as I'm reviewing for my coating project starting today. That's interesting you decided against the Invisible. I'm sorry you had to have your floor sanded again!

    I'm wondering what sheen of Bona you used in the past? In most coatings, the glossier the finish, the more durable it usually is. If you had gone with a semi-gloss in the Loba, maybe it would have held up better? I got the semi-gloss so will see how that goes. It's hard to find the glossy in stock anywhere or I might have gotten that.

    I do appreciate the comment on the slippery element. I'm doing this for furniture and didn't want a lot of grip on the surface, so hopefully it will work out for my application to not be grippy. Thanks also for the comment on the fumes. I have a good mask and ventilation system to set up to hopefully minimize the effects on myself and the home's air until the fumes dissipate. Again, I really appreciate your input.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    I was using Bona Satin before , now Loba semigloss first 2 coats and then satin.

    I don’t think it makes much difference.

    but one thing is for sure, with 3 coats you need to wait longer for full cure.

    5 days is not enough.

    good luck!!!

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @David Valasek That is also what I was wondering, if your dog got to the floor before a full cure and if the full cure took more than 5 days. This time of year the temperatures are lower, so that prolongs cure time, as well. And, as you said, the 3 full coats over a primer could also prolong cure time compared to the primer-plus-two-topcoat system they say you can do if you use their special Loba micro 120 roller for thick coverage. I have seen in another thread where @SJ McCarthy said any coating including the Loba waterbornes that claim a three- to five-day full cure time depending on the product may continue to harden past that time. I was watching again several videos from @City Floor Supply featuring Loba rep Tom Zagula demonstrating the Loba application process for several different products, and he said the Loba 2K Supra AT is among the the hardest of clear-coat finishes available on the market today, so it could be if your dog could scratch into this, nothing is safe. In my situation, I have a cat who likes to shred cabinets like a scratching post, so that is one of the reasons I chose the Loba 2K Supra AT--even though I'll try to keep the cat off the new cabinetry with a gate already in place, I want a coating as durable as possible in case something happens that the cat gets to the finish. I've heard different things about touching up the Loba 2K Supra AT. Some places say that beyond 2 to 3 days, you have to sand down everything to bare wood. In other places, I've seen people say that you can abrade the top layer and put a fresh coat down several years later. You might want to call Loba's customer service line and ask about this if you are interested in getting a fresh coat over the scratches and then letting it cure for longer than 5 days this time.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @David Valasek and others, I am starting a new thread on some application issues I'm encountering with bubbles in the Loba 2K Supra AT finish if anyone would like to chime in here: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6032820/how-to-get-rid-of-bubbles-in-loba-2k-supra-at

    I'm seeing the truth of what @David Valasek said about the dry times on the 2K Supra AT. Even with thick coats, I'm having to work within about a 5-minute period for each section to get the product to keep flowing with a wet edge, and that's with conditions right in the middle of the ideal ranges according to Loba's technical data sheets. I also see what @David Valasek means about feeling like it might be slippery even though some people and the company itself say the product has excellent slip resistance. The surface grabs a tad better than a shiny tile, but it is still very smooth. Granted, hardwood flooring coatings aren't meant to grip like rubber mats, so I think the grip should probably be sufficient for most end users.

    My applicators for the catalyzed 2K were unsalvageable after each round of coating, just as @G & S Floor Service said they would be. I'm averaging more like one coat per day with sanding between each coat of the 2K Supra AT just due to the complexity of this being a cabinetry project rather than a flooring one and lots of detail and areas to be prepped for each round. Overall, I think the Loba products will be an adequate solution to my dilemma, but if I had it to do over, I would definitely have booked my cabinetry order with a company that has a robust, on-site finishing system. This product is very difficult to work with on anything but a flat surface. It's definitely meant to be a flooring coating. However, I am looking forward to hopefully excellent longevity with the wear of this finish for many years to come. Thanks everyone for your input!

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your comments at my other thread addressing the bubbling problem. It did end up being mostly excess sanding dust that needed extra removal procedures. I also think I wasn't submerging and soaking my rollers enough to get all the air out which was creating some bubbles. I am getting the best results with a brush, but that wouldn't work for a big flooring area since it takes so long. My application is on cabinetry, so I have smaller areas at a time to work.

    I also wanted to add another comment here about what @David Valasek said about feeling like the 2K Supra AT was skinning over so fast that it was difficult to keep up with the wet edge during application. I totally agree with that. The company claims you are supposed to have a 10- to 15-minute wet edge working life, but after about 5 minutes, I was seeing brush strokes if I had to go back to re-do anything. You have to work incredibly quickly. For a large floor, I can see this taking up to 3 people to freshly brush the edge work and keep the central flooring wet simultaneously, just as David suggested.

    As to scratching, I am still able to get faint dents in my sample coating with a fingernail, and that is after several weeks, but that is also on cherry wood which is much softer than the typical wood used for flooring like oak and hickory. This coating is really tough once it cures, and I cannot imagine many other coatings being similar in terms of having the elasticity needed for most woodwork as well as toughness combined. All in all, I'm happy that I am able to use it for my cabinetry application, though going forward I'd really only recommend this for a flooring product, as the self-leveling compounds make anything but a flat surface very tricky to manage with runs and drips.

    As to being slippery, the Loba 2K Supra AT in semi-gloss isn't as slick as my kitchen tile floors, but it certainly doesn't seem to have a ton of grip, either. If you wanted a grippy floor, probably a matte version would be better, but there is another thread here at Houzz with a comment from a lady who has the Loba 2K Invisible AT in the matte sheen and says it grips the grime, making the floor hard to clean. So, it is a value judgement as to what qualities are most important to you in the coating.

    The color change to me seemed minimal compared to raw rood, and I had several pieces in different stages of coating so was able to compare completely finished areas next to raw wood. If anything, the combination of Loba WS EasyPrime and 2K Supra AT seemed to darken the grain areas and leave the lighter areas almost the same as the raw wood. Lighting also makes a difference, as I had photos that turned out much darker at night compared to photos taken in daylight. Here is a photo of some of my finished work on unstained, American Black Cherry wood:



  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    One more correction, @David Valasek. I was reviewing the Loba 2K Supra AT instructions this afternoon and saw that the company does support a refresher topcoat under certain circumstances if used with Loba WS 2K Contact and a thorough dulling and cleaning of the previous topcoat. Based on my own experience thus far, I'd be cautious with that approach. I've been rotating my cabinetry and doing each plane that needs coating horizontally, and I have found that where one plane meets the corner of a previously cured coat, the new coating rubs off easily in any place where there is overlap. If I were to consider re-coating a cured surface, I would want to test the application first to make sure I wouldn't be putting down a new layer that would have widespread adhesion issues.

  • David Valasek
    3 years ago

    Silverline, if I do it in the future, I will wash the floor and then buff it before coat. Thanks a lot for all the info you researched.

  • druszky
    3 years ago

    Great info here! And I am wondering if I am going end up having issues. My contractor just finished this morning last layer of Loba on my floor. I checked on Loba website how long it takes to cure and it turns out it was more than he told me.

    Anyway, he put one coat of Loba Invisible Protect AT yesterday pm, then about 30 min after another coat. This am, he buffed the floor and finished with one coat of Supra Extramatt that does not come in AT.

    I have a few questions:

    1. will there be issues because he did not wait a few hour with the second coat of Invisible Protect AT?

    2. Is it ok the top coat is not AT? Did it make sense to do it? From what I see above, Invisible Protect has different sheen than Supra extramatt.

    3. How long should I give to cure?

    Thanks,

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    The Loba Invisible Protect should get 4-6 hours under PERFECT conditions (perfect humidity and perfect temperature...which never happens).


    He was too fast with the second coat. It *might not matter so long as YOU give the floor an extra day or two to cure. By your description you have 2 different products on the floor. Which is possible but not optimal (for wear).


    The Invisible Protect AT is a 2 coat system without the need for a sealant. It did not need the third coat of the other product.


    The TOUGHNESS (anti scratch) comes from the AT. Why someone would use a lower level product over top of the HIGHER LEVEL product, I'm not sure. The 2K Duo has extra matte. It should be pretty close to the Invisible level...but it might be less glossy.


    There is one possible reason why s/he added the *other product: Invisible Protect has complaints regarding foot prints showing VERY glossy and showing 'scuffs' as high-gloss buff marks (it is glossier than the finish around it).

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    3 years ago

    You received no benefit with the second coat of Invisible with a 30 minute dry time apart from the first coat. The second coat reactivates the first. You don't get any film build but, more risk of applicator marks and streaks. You only have a two coat system, not three.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @druszky Are you certain without doubt that first layer was not some type of primer? Loba does produce a waterborne primer called WS EasyPrime that is designed to receive a topcoat layer within about 45 minutes to 2 hours of primer application. If the first layer was EasyPrime, then 30 minutes later Invisible Protect AT, then you would be OK.

    It's distressing to me that so many people are after the extreme matte look in coatings. First, it leads to situations like you have here where clearer coats were used first, then a matte coat used last. This retains the clarity of the coating overall but makes repairs more difficult. Also, I am not a coatings expert but have generally noticed with the amount of reading I have done this year on coatings that a higher gloss finish tends to wear better in some cases in terms of not prematurely failing. I don't know if that is because of properties that allow a greater surface resilience or what. Then, you also have the situation @SJ McCarthy mentioned, where wear along a matte topcoat can produce shiny sections. Most people selecting coatings for their homes are probably not informed by the contractors in advance about these types of issues, or perhaps more people would opt for a higher sheen.

  • druszky
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thank you, guys. @Aglitter- yes, pretty sure that is the case. They put a filler (not sure what is the proper name of it), buffed it, then Invisible x2 and Supra the next day. He also did tell me that. There is still another part of the house that needs to be done and I will inquire to confirm what he is going to use. Are you saying I am better off with two coats of Invisible Protect only, but spaced out within 4-6 hours and buffed in between?


    For now, I will give it a few extra days to cure.


    His reasoning to finish it with Supra was to strengthen the first two coats to prevent scratching. . I assumed Supra was also AT and did not see it was not the case when I looked at the sealer containers.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @druszky The Loba technical data sheet for Invisible Protect A.T. states the following:

    Drying time

    • Earliest possible recoating after 4-6 hours.
    • Careful use possible after 4-6 hours.
    • Earliest possible intermediate sanding after 8-10 hours.
    • Light use after 24 hours.
    • Full use and covering possible after 5 days.
    • The floor can be covered earlier by using LOBATOOL Cover 400, for details see the TI for the product.


    I recommend you print out the data sheet at the link I gave you above and show it to your technician or email it to him. Insist on knowing why the protocol was not followed. You may need to document your communication by email in case a legal claim comes up for a failed adhesion. Also, I noticed just now by visiting the Loba main website that it seems they have discontinued the non-A.T. versions of Invisible and Supra, which is a good thing. This would be within the last three months or so since I last checked the website for my own project. The similar names with A.T. and without A.T. were confusing to consumers. If your technician purchased the products recently, he should not have had the option to buy a non-A.T. version.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    @druszky I'd like to add one more comment based on my own experience with Loba 2K Supra A.T. That stuff sets up within 10 minutes to the point that it can no longer be worked with a brush or roller without leaving deep marks. By 30 minutes, it's going to be well on its way to skimming over with a dry layer that wouldn't trap any dust that fell on it, or at least it would be under the conditions in which I'm coating my current project. I'd still feel much more comfortable waiting a full 12 hours before a recoat to give each layer time to dry, though. When you put 2 thick layers back to back, then it hinders the drying process. Loba's waterborne products are meant to be applied at a rate of 500 square feet per gallon. If your floor person was not maintaining that thick of a coating, then it is possible that it could have dried a little faster, but 30 minutes between coats is out of range of how Invisible A.T. supposed to work unless one of those coats was WS EasyPrime as explained above.

  • druszky
    3 years ago

    Silverlined, I just checked Loba website and they show both Supra’s.

    I don’t think the layers were not very thick as the entire product seemed absorbed by the wood when he was putting another coat.

  • Aglitter
    3 years ago

    Yes, I see that now, that the non-A.T. Supra is listed, but I am fairly sure they also had a non-A.T. Invisible that has apparently been discontinued recently. If the wood soaked up the first layer of Invisible, you still would have benefitted from a longer than 30-minute recoat time. You would also have benefitted from a 4th coat to get to the total mil thickness desired overall. The per-gallon coverage goes down if wood is soaking up product. You can calculate how many square feet you have divided by how many gallons of product were used among all the coats and get your answer as to whether your thickness is sufficient. If you had 500 square feet, you would have needed at least 4 gallons to build up to 12 to 15 mils.