This is the space. The oven will go on the right and pretty sure I won’t be able to open it without bumping my rear on the island. My luck then I’d fall forward and end up in the oven!! It’s supposed to be 4 feet wide and this is just under 36 inches

Do you have a general contractor and/or a kitchen designer?

Who ordered the cabinets?

Which island cabinets are bigger than they should be?

Yes we have a contractor and they ordered the cabinets through another company. I saw all the cabinet plans but didn’t get the tape measure out to assure they were the right size because I thought our contractor had done all that. The island is a foot too long now, which would be ok if it didn’t impede the ability to open the oven

Who ensured that the as built space actually follows the architectural plans and isn’t actually 12” smaller than those plans? That’s fairly common on new builds. And it’s why I make the GC measure the space again once the framing is up, and find those as built issues. Before cabinets are ordered. But that’s beyond what most kitchen designers do. Most just have the GC sign off and assume the responsibility goes build to plan, and assume that is what will happen. Until it doesn’t.

Your island is two cabinets deep, so it looks like 2 cabinets have to be remade. Do you mean your oven will be inset into the wall we see on the right? Or that it is inset into the right-most end of the island?

I see two issues - one is the cost and one is the time. What is the leadtime on your cabinets and will this screw up everything else? I guess the 3rd issue is the design ... when you shorten the island does it still function for you (enough seating, adequate clearance between prep zones, etc)?

Lastly ... what is the outcome you want? A couple new cabinets are small change in the grand scheme of a kitchen reno - but figuring out a solution you feel good about is critical.

What about changing the ovens to French Door opening. That would give you more room. It is a problem, no doubt and should have been worked through with final drawings. Don't let them bulldoze you on this. They dropped the ball. But, truthfully, they probably thought lining the island cabinet base up to the other peripheral cabinets made sense. No one considered the need for proper walk through space or oven opening. These are details that come with kitchen planning and design. Pick you poison; remove island cabinets and rethink size; select different ovens.

" I shouldn’t have to pay for the extra work for it to be done right should I?" "I approved the cabinet plans but didn’t get out the measuring tape..."

You've answered your own question.

How much more can a contractor do? He's got a written approval of what he's going to do and he did it. They don't teach mind reading and predicting the future at contractor school.

Can you post the kitchen cabinet plans and a picture of the whole island?

A contractor does what he is told to do if he is good he might mention issues but you signed off and you always need to measure. Who designed the kitchen if that was you , you need to own this and yes you will need to wait for the right stuff to do the job.Too bad your hubby didn’t check this time. BTW architects are not KDs Post the plan that you signed off on.

I had an architect draw plans and hired a general contractor to carry them out. The contractor met with the cabinet consultant to measure it out and draw up the cabinet plans. There should have been no mind reading as the architectural plans are there to be referenced. My question is: shouldn’t the GC have carried out the architectural plans as written?

@Patricia Colwell: what do you mean that my husband should have been there? Sounds like a lot of assumptions being made....

Whoever is making and/or ordering the cabinets should verify all measurements. If a cabinet dealer or custom shop was involved, it was their responsibility to verify these measurements. Nobody should be building cabinets off of a plan only without verification. If I design a kitchen and I am not the one ordering the cabinets, my plans are always stamped with a VERIFY ALL MEASUREMENTS IN FIELD notation. If I am ordering the cabinets, I measure every space twice and revise my final plans if the as built differs at all from the original plans.

If your contractor placed the cabinet order, he either needed to ensure the dealer would come out to confirm the measure or he needed to make sure the measurements were sound. If it was you who placed the order, you would have needed to do the same.

Perfectly stated Kristin.

Step 1. Verify that the architectural As Built follows the Architectural Plans. Often things need to be field adjusted. The GC should have verified the framer’s work. And he should have adjusted the measurements given the KD. Before cabinets were designed. Much less ordered.

Step 2. Verify that the KD’s measurements use the correct architectural measurements. If the design measurements are correct, then check placement in and out of the island. If the kitchen design plans show an added 12” to the island, and it wasn’t on the plans, WHY? Didn’t they check the clearances in the design software? And WHY didn’t they insist that the GC verify with them, together, if it would work, before ordering?

Step 3. Check that the GC actually measured out the KD’s plan in the space BEFORE ordering. The job responsibility is his. If the KD put in an extra 12” of cabinets, even if you asked for it, then measuring it out should have shown him that. If the island isn’t positioned properly in the space? Measuring it out should have shown him that.

If the architectural plans wete followed by everyone, and show something that can’t physically work in real life? That’s a different issue entirely. But it’s the GC’s issue. He should have measured drawings vs real life.

Seems like somewhere wires got crossed. You would need to post the architect print of the kitchen and the cabinet order layout to solve the mystery. Imho

I'm certain the architectural plans are correct and that the cabinet was supposed to be shorter. The architectural plan work in real life and now that the cabinet is installed, it's all that much more clear. I'll post them here in a few...

I mean he caught the first error maybe he would have caught this too. Sorry but really this is on you if you didnot check measurements when you approved the plan What the heck is a cabinet consultant I assume the cabinet salesperson who in no way cares they just sell cabinets according to your plan and as mentioned the plan is done after the space is finished not from drawings of what it should be. Now we need to see what can be done to fix this so post the original plans and what you have drawn to the same scale.

Gotcha...

I just reviewed the contract I have with the contractor, which states that the contractor will carry out all work as defined in 'the plans' and 'the plans' are defined as what the architect has drawn up. The this this holds that it's the contractor's job to assure the work is measured out correctly.

Amy:

Architects and designers can draw anything, including things that can't be built as drawn. I've seen winding stairs that couldn't possibly be built as drawn and still meet modern building codes. This type of discrepancy creates a "pick your poison" moment. You may be there; be ready please.

Definitely share the drawings. And to answer your first question: the GC is there to make sure things fit into the actual space, not the drawings. He can (and should) refer to the drawings, but everyone needs to verify the measurements. Cabinetmaker measures after sheetrock is up, so they should not be referring to the architect's drawings. Cabinetmaker creates their own set of drawings that is approved before cabinets go into production. Sounds like there are some gaps in communication here. A 12" error is most likely a typo or mistranslation somewhere along the line. Drawings help to clarify all these things because everyone can see how things are supposed to relate.

Post your drawings so people can help you sort it out.

ETA: Of course cabinetmaker should refer to architect's drawings, but it's important that they get their own measurements and generate their own set of drawings for approval. I may not have made that clear.

True, but this story is the other way around. The architectural plans showed what works in real life and that's what I was counting on. I sure measured out what was on the architectural plans to sort of get the feel of how it would all flow. I trusted that the GC would follow those plans as was stated in the contract so didn't think I needed to measure out every step following because that's what I hired them for. I'm not the one measuring out whether the appliances will fit, etc because I just pick out the design I like and they take the specs and make sure it will all work and they'll let me know if anything needs to be revised. The same thing should be applied to the cabinetry.

It’s your house. You can trust. But you always verify the important details too. They won’t live there, and their “field compromises” might not be your field compromises. There are exactly zero homes that are 100 % built according to plans. Most of the time you won’t notice if the garage is 23’ 11” internally rather than 24’. You always notice a 12” discrepancy when you have to live with it.

Did you ask the KD to make the island bigger?

Indeed. With no drawings and a single photograph that doesn't really show anything at all, no one can help you sort it out.

Here are the architectural drawings, second pic is measuring tape showing how much space should be there between the wall and island so you can see the discrepancy between the size. Third pic is cabinet drawing. They didn’t provide a cabinet drawing within the space. My biggest hang up is that the oven won’t be able to be opened safely at that short of a space. Otherwise...who wouldn’t want a bigger island if given the choice, right??

So how long is the island in real life, how long is it in the architectural plans, and how long is it on the cabinetmaker's plans?

OK. So the ovens are supposed to go into that hole? And you've got 8' of cabinets for a 12' long island, correct? I can't read what the tape says, but from what you're describing, it sounds like it's about 37".

If it's too close, shift it down to where it belongs.

Is it too long or just placed incorrectly? It looks like the island placement is based on where the contractor roughed in the plumbing for the sink?

Easy fix if there is a real carpenter involved here. So looking at those plans either you are having all 3 cabinets remade or you are going to have t alter that last cabinet.

You can have the last cabinet removed and then add a bookcase(of a smaller width) on one side and on the other side a open face cabinet with slide out baskets. Any carpenter or cabinet maker could knock that out in under a day. You can buy the basket pull outs through any cabinet parts supply web site.

It will be impossible to keep the symmetry because the sink cabinet has to stay that size. I would never agree to new cabinets pained on site but will assume this is SOCAL or Texas?

You can argue all day who's fault it is or try and fix it.

One issue is that the architectural as drawn 7’ of cabinet boxes isn’t really enough cabinetry to physically house a full sized sink, DW, and trash pullout, with the required electrical outlets on the side that take up space. (Architects are lousy Kitchen Designers.) The DW needs a side panel, and a heavily reinforced wAinscoting panel for that end, under the overhang. It has to physically support the attachments to to create that island table. You need to factor in about 4”-6” more space to make that happen, and to finish off the other side with panels in a way that matches, and allows internal room for the electrical boxes. So I see why the extra 12” was added. It makes the island function better, and allows it to meet the design parameters and electrical code requirements.

Those diagrams make it appear that it’s the island Placement that is off within the whole. They didn’t measure out the 48” from the wall for the first cabinet. The whole plan isn’t shown, but the island boxes being 96” instead of 84” shouldn’t be an issue, if the placement of the island from that wall was measured out correctly by the installer. The 5’ of counter table extension would have been fine reduced to 4’. Or, if the other end of the plan is shown, it may still have been fine at 5’, with the extra 12” shifted to that direction.

If the issue was the rough in placement of the plumbing pipes being off, and not inside the sink cabinet, the cabinet installer should have brought that to the GC’s attention and only installed the perimeter until that was resolved. The installer should not have moved forward with creating the smaller aisle.

The cure is to uninstall the island and move it over by 12”. That extra 12’ of cabinets may result in a smaller table extension, or a smaller aisle on the other end.

48" should be the minimum aisle width anywhere there are appliances that open. Whoever drew up your plans knew that. The Cook's Kitchen solution to uninstall the island and move it over by 12" is what I'd do if I were in your position.

Thanks everyone. Seems like it's easy to move the island down but there's a step down so cannot. I think it will need to be shortened to the 84'' which is fine w me considering that's what I had planned for originally. I don't really want to point fingers, just want to make sure there's a solution but I'm asking about responsibilities only because I don't think I should have to pay for it to be corrected.

Doesn't code specify a minimum of 36" of walkway?

The island cabinetry cannot be reduced to 84”, as I explained above. It won’t be able to physically house all of the functions that you are asking it to perform without major surgery. It was an architectural error to indicate that it could be 84” in the first place. You can see the notations on the plans that show all the things that it’s required to do, that simply won’t fit in 84”.

The only way to have that happen is to reduce your sink to a 25” single sink, eliminate the cabinet to the right of the trash, and get rid of the top drawer above the trash or notch it severely for your required electrical outlets. The table extension can be reduced from 60” to 48” though.

For a non-work aisle and no appliances, yes the minimum would be 36". For an aisle with an appliance, it's 48".

Did your cabinet drawings include a plan view?

I think the cabinet farthest to the right could be eliminated and everything else kept which would give back almost the entire 12 inches. Then there's a couple inches the whole island could be shifted over before getting too close to the step-down.

I don't think the cabinet drawings included a plan view. Probably should have, right?

That would only gain you 7”, and you would lose most of the drawer above the trash to the electrical box still. The sink cabinet and sink has to be made smaller to get the additional inches. And then there is the cabinets on the other side that will no longer be symmetrical. To reduce the island size means remaking most of it. And it still cannot be made smaller without those sacrifices in function.

Just make the table section smaller. It will be fine. You do have a separate dining room, correct?

We don't have a separate dining table. Very small house which is why we're extending the island to the step down to have a space for seating 6. There should be no problem keeping that part because the step down area is kind of separate from the rest of the functional kitchen space. I guess I don't see why eliminating the end small cabinet and reconfiguring the other side of cabinetry wouldn't work? I realize I may not achieve the entire 12 inches but if it's only 7, that's a decent compromise and would allow to keep the function of the rest of the island. I don't really care about the drawer above the trash pull-out, it could be a false drawer for all I care.

" It was on the cabinetmaker to confirm actual dimensions, make drawings, and get approvals from someone."

Which is exactly what he did.

The diagram uses standard sized components (sink, DW) that allow the size of the cabinets on the other side of the sink to be scaled. Those add up to 84”. (36” sink 24” DW, 24” other side) But without the needed DW side panel and the required allocation of space for the electrical boxes. The island had to grow to make that happen. Or the sink had to shrink. The hand notations indicate all that had to be crammed into the space. Unfortunately, the rest of the island table construction isn’t shown on the plan, but the architect should have shown it in elevation. Just as should the kitchen design plans should have shown the floor plan.

I am curious about the unusual choice of a step down. It appears to be a pretty big safety hazard to trip over, right in the middle of a work zone. I would want the floor under the entire kitchen to be the same height. I can’t see how an architect could justify adding that detail. It adds unneeded complexity and danger, without any design or functional benefit.

One other solution would be to do a range instead of wall oven and cooktop. A small passageway not in the major traffic path is fine as 32”. It is only egress paths (emergency fire escape path) that need be 36”.

The step down was part of the space already and we had to choose to work around it. That part of the house was an addition long ago so it's a very weird space.

Making a critical corridor 25% narrower I would expect the GC to show you in person prior to sign off. I paint the layout on the floor.

Sometimes contractors & cabinet installers need to be reminded to follow clearances on the plans instead of their own preferences.

And where is the step, at the end of the dishwasher or further away from the island stools?

Seems to me like you need an 18” trash (or even 15”) and however many inches necessary for electrical and end panel. Then new panels for the back of the island.

A remodel of this expense and scope should have fixed the BIG safety issue of that step down. It’s been made worse and more unsafe by having it designed the way it was designed. It should never be in the middle of a kitchen like that. It’s a broken ankle waiting to happen. I’m sure that you were NOT working with an architect. That diagram has GC’s design and draftsman’s diagram written all over it. No licensed architect would risk the liability of such a safety hazard design. Lawsuit waiting to happen.

Raise the floor of the step down in the middle of the kitchen and fix that. That’s a much bigger issue than 35” between the island end and wall oven.

Thanks but that's a done deal and we have been working with an architect. While the step down is not ideal, it's the way it is. It wasn't designed this way on purpose, it was just this way already and to correct it would require more than we are willing to spend on this part so decided to leave it. The problem at hand is the island size and the space.

You may also have trouble opening the fridge door due to the placement against the wall. It's a somewhat frequent problem that gets posted here.

"The hand notations indicate all that had to be crammed into the space."

@User your eyes are way better than mine!

"Unfortunately, the rest of the island table construction isn’t shown on the plan, but the architect should have shown it in elevation. Just as should the kitchen design plans should have shown the floor plan."

Totally agree. Everyone should be working together, especially when things are as idiosyncratic as this. I include VERY CLEAR notes where I have clearances that can't be "fudged," to limit freewheeling creativity, or just plain stupid mistakes. I'm all for letting others put their two cents in, but at the end of the day, it's my design and safety is a primary goal.

--Signed, one of the architects who designs good kitchens.

I am not a pro - but recently finished a gut remodel.

I have no idea why anyone would think the homeowner is responsible if the cabinets are the wrong size.

I had plans drawn up by my kitchen designer - they were submitted to the GC and to the cabinet maker who actually made and installed them as they were custom from a local shop.

I signed off on the DESIGN of the kitchen - e.g. that there would be specific configurations and "sizes" with x number of drawers in which lower cabinets and how tall each drawer would be.

I also initialed a stain on the miniature door that was submitted for my approval

I didn't physically take measures nor did I figure out what if anything needed as fillers or whether items would be fit. There were a few anomalies that occurred because I had so many sublayers in my new flooring that the actual floors so the height of my lower cabinets made the distance between upper and lower a bit less but this was totally adjusted for and taken care of by whoever - GC, cabinet maker/installer, designer - in the end my kitchen fitted together perfectly.

I have no idea why - given what OP has posted - he/she would have any responsibility in terms of approving actual measurements. That would be true only if a homeowner actually measured and provided those measurements to the source of the cabinets.

OP needs to have a meeting and have a solution that is satisfactory to OP provided. If it costs more, then GC, architect and anyone else involved in the process determine how to divvy up the extra costs.

I was very reasonable in terms of my whole process and recognized that there are going to be glitches and I was willing to adjust within reason. In my case, they didn't compensate for my soffits being concrete in terms of the hood vent so it was ON THEM to figure out how to get my hood vent adjusted :-). On the other hand, I had wanted a tiled shower drain cover but someone didn't compensate for that when building my shower so I didn't make them completely build me a new shower - I just got a beautiful drain cover from Designer Drains :-).