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Is this unevenness normal in herringbone engineered wood floors?

Orchislily
3 years ago

I remember when I first selected this flooring almost two years ago, the builder mentioned you may feel a gap. But I am concerned this is an installation issue because the straight floors in another room of the same style flooring don’t have the same issues with gaps and unevenness. We won’t allow shoes in the house, so I am worried it’s going to feel really terrible to walk barefoot. And we have too many animals, so I will be unhappy to have pet hair clogging up the gaps. Are these just unrealistic expectations on my part for smooth wood floors? :( I love the color and the herringbone pattern, but it looks poorly done to me, and I wanted expert opinions for what is reasonable. Thank you so much for your time and input.

Comments (16)

  • Orchislily
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Also they’re still in the process of installing. Is there anything I could or should ask for to help with evening out the floors? I read wood putty would be a terrible option. Am I just jumping the gun worrying? I just assumed since they’re gluing down the floors, this is how they will look or am I missing another step afterwards? Or should I want for all the pieces to be in to see if the gaps are minimized then?

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Who's the manufacturer of the floor? Do they 'suggest' (ie photos, instructions) that a herring bone is possible?


    I'm seen in click-edge. That's not very common with engineered hardwood. Those are more common with laminate or vinyl.


    If this were a laminate or vinyl floor that was "made" to work in a herring bone (as in it is NOT supposed to be installed this way) I would say you are seeing exactly what your installer told you you would see.


    If a floor is designed to be installed as a herring bone, the short edges will be DESIGNED to 'click' to the long edge. The floors that are NOT designed to do it, need glue. This is not 100% but it is an easy way to keep an eye out for what works and what doesn't.


    It is not very common to see a square edge on an engineered hardwood. And this is the reason why it doesn't happen very often. Getting the edges to sit properly (as in flush to one another) is EXTREMELY difficult.


    Please let us know the maker of the floor and the colour/line. We will go from there. Until you get some more information...you will want to stop the work.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    3 years ago

    As SJ mentioned, your floors may not be designed for a herring bone install.


    The floor looks to be glued down based on the last image. The installer maybe using the incorrect trowel size, a worn down trowel or is using the wrong trowel pattern to ensure proper adhesive coverage.


    Incorrect trowel size: A common mistake is not factoring in variance in the flatness for the correct trowel size to avoid non-contact and hollow spots. Installers will use a trowel with the smallest tines to get the most coverage from the adhesive just because the label says so. Low spots require a little extra adhesive. When the tines are too short, you end up with voids between the floor board and adhesive. This does not look like to be your issue since, the problem is only persistent along the ends of the herringbone.


    Worn down trowel: Another common mistake is not swapping out worn down trowels for a new one every few hundred sf. The tines of the trowel will wear down during use. Trowels should be swapped out to a new one every 300-400 sf. This is a possible cause


    Incorrect trowel pattern: One last thing is their trowel pattern. The last image shows the trowel pattern runs parallel to the floor boards. Which can create voids under the ends of the adjacent herringbone boards. Trowel patterns should always be perpendicular to the floor boards not parallel. Troweling at 45 degrees to the pattern or parallel to the wall, will assure that you have adhesive contact along those end joints. Herringbone patterns are installed at 45 degrees.

  • Orchislily
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    This sounds terrible. The brand is called Silvian Collection in Vuori - Mountain. 7.5” wide 9/16” thick

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Sorry but the installation instructions do not mention herring bone pattern.

    I was wrong when I said these planks are square edged. They have a very small microbevel.


    You will have to decide if you can live with this. You have paid for the herring bone. You can negotiate a new price for removal of the herring bone and then pay for more wood and more glue and the new install.

    I'm sorry but your pro did warn you about the issue you are currently seeing. That means any decision to continue with the non-recommended application tests with you. I know that isn't nice to hear...but it is the truth.

  • Orchislily
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I wasn’t sure if he was saying to expect this because that comment was made in passing almost 2 years ago when we selected a different type of engineered wood. That style was no longer available and we had to re-select what was in stock closer to when we were installing and that still took a month to cut. So to check I understand what you’re saying, this is a reasonable result of flooring that wasn’t meant to be in the herringbone pattern? I know for certain that the latest sales rep said this could be herringbone, chevron, she even showed me examples of this plank with marble tile inset.

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I can't find it in the installation instructions which override ANYTHING a sales person says.

    Ask how much you paid for subfloor prep. To get a product like this to do something outside of its normal use the prep must be EXTENSIVE. That means expensive. Like $3-$4/sf expensive.

    Check how long it took and how much you paid. That will be very telling.

    Did anyone give the installer the instructions?

    Who purchased the product itself? Who overrode the installation instructions?

  • Orchislily
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I know part of their subfloor prep was the pouring of concrete for more leveling. As an update, I felt I had enough information that the look of the floor was not right to approach our GC. He replied “When the herringbone came from the supplier, it didn’t fit together properly. He talked w reps from the supplier about it and agreed to recut the pieces rather than send it back. Let me talk w him.”
    And on closer inspection, we think all the problem areas are where they cut the pieces on site and they don’t perfectly match up. I think EVERY single plank is poorly aligned at that site where the piece was modified. Each piece slides in well without issues on the long side, which looks like wasn’t changed.

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    And that's probably why these are not to be used in a herring bone. PLEASE tell me your pro got the instructions in WRITING?????

    The edges that were removed are the things that keep everything level. Once those are removed there is nothing holding the cut edges"up in the air". That allows the cut edge to drop lower than the long edge.

    It sounds like the "herring bone" order was a different product than the rest of the wood?

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    3 years ago

    I would not be happy with this :(

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The installers should have used splines/slip tongues to prevent the issue. It's a PITA to groove the ends then cut in splines but, a must for your situation.

  • Orchislily
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    😭 No, the herringbone order is the same type of planks as the straight, which looks good and does not have these leveling issues with the edges appearing scraped/cut poorly

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Ask your installer if he ever got the 'cut the edges' order from the Technical Support Team at Real Wood Floors. It is the only way you will get anything out of the company. Without the written statement the company will back out of any warranty because herring bone is not listed as a form of installation.

    The photos done with inlaid tile and/or herring bone are specialized installs that cost an arm, a leg and your first born...possibly their first born as well. Your pro would have to be TOLD how to achieve the herring bone BEFORE s/he bid on the job (I know it was 2 years ago....but let's pretend it was a little more recent...just for argument's sake).


    At that time the pro would have understood the requirement (splines) and would have double the herring bone installation cost (yah...s/he would have doubled the already expensive herring bone quote).


    At that point you would have been able to say, "Oh my! No thank you!".


    Please find out if your pro has any written documents from the company saying to trim the edges. Go from there.

  • chispa
    3 years ago

    If your straight planks look good then this is an error on the part of the installer who does not have the knowledge and/or skill to turn a standard engineered plank into a cut down herringbone pattern.

  • chispa
    3 years ago

    Sorry you are dealing with this, but a good warning to those considering similar patterns using standard planks.