How long do you plan/expect to be in your current house?

What Rekha asked^^

You say it's not your "forever home", but if you plan on living here for 8 or 10 years or more, I would seriously re-consider just refacing shoddy cabinetry. Just b/c something is "all wood" doesn't mean it's quality workmanship -- as you're finding out.

If your cabinets are standard size cabinets, I doubt you would need "fully custom" cabinets.

What are the sizes of the various cabinets?

With the exception of the cooktop in the peninsula, the rest of the layout isn't really that bad. At least the DW is out of the Prep Zone. (The Prep Zone is the counter b/w the sink and the cooktop - not having the DW in the middle of it is a plus.)

Also, it appears there's decent overhead venting (assuming the hood vents to the outside). No downdraft, another plus.

Do you have a picture of the cooktop? The pictures you posted don't give us a good view of the cooktop in the peninsula.

What's the distance b/w the (brick?) wall and the end of the peninsula?

Normally, I'd ask if there's an IKEA near you, but I don't know what if there's a backlog or how long it is. Of course, I suspect ALL cabinet manufacturers probably have the same issues with inventory, so maybe the IKEA suggestion has merit.

IKEA kitchen cabinetry is highly rated, especially for the price. Many people rave about them.

Thank you both for your input!

I’ve had serious buyer’s remorse in this house. We’ve been here about a year, and I’ve been saying we’ll be here 3 years max. But, with interest rates rising plus low supply and astranomical prices in our neighborhood (which we adore), we might be stuck 5-10 unless we get lucky. It’s a fine house, and I’m trying my best to like it (hence the refacement).

I’ve attached a few more pics that I took myself, including some close ups. The base cabinets appear to be somewhere between 23.5-24 inches deep… don’t appear to be standard. The cabinet from the right of the dishwasher all the way to the right end of the cooktop is one big open ”L”. The bar height area around the peninsula is two cabinets—one long one behind the cooktop and a shorter one to the right. The area by the fridge is pretty weird as well. As part of the refacing, we’re planning on lowering the pensinsula to all one level (thus replacing those two surrounding cabinets) and replacing the cabinets to the right of the fridge with standard uppers and a base cabinet with bigger drawers. This will give us more counter space but is where the price is starting to get high. Again, it appears the floors are only finished to the toe kicks of the current cabinetry.

Yes, vent hood is ducted to the outside. 3 feet from peninsula to old brick coal chimney (which is actually a cool feature, I will admit!). I also like the wetbar area, which is partially original to the home I think.

No IKEA in our state (closest is 2.5 hours away). I actually had IKEA cabinets at my old house and loved them. Installed by a prior owner.

One more benefit of the refacer (besides the fact we’ve already paid him $2500). He’s handling all the project management, so if we ditched him, I’d have to coordinate myself or find another GC to coordinate countertops, backsplash, painting, etc. etc.

Really appreciate your thorough responses!

Are you changing the countertop right now? If so, I would hit pause, and seriously investigate the cost of new cabinets.

1) If everything is patched together with odd fillers anyway, you might be able to put together a decent set of semi-custom cabinets, with a few fillers. After all, if the current kitchen is so poorly constructed, they were using off-the-shelf cabinet sizes too, right?

2) There are some potential layout improvements. And it might not be as demanding as you think. There might be ways to patch the wood floor without refinishing 3 rooms, for example.

If you aren't planning to replace the countertops, then tell us more about the cabinet condition. What kind of "mess" is going on with the cabinet bottoms? Pictures? People here might have solutions for you. Or be able to tell you for sure whether it's time to junk these cabinets.

@mcarroll16 Thanks! I think we posted at the same time, so some of my new pics might help you. Yes, we‘re replacing the countertops and backsplash.

Definitely would welcome layout suggestions. I’ve had so much trouble coming up with anything thath wouldn’t require taking it to the studs!

Hard to make concrete suggestions without full dimensions. The quick potential fix I see is eliminating the peninsula. Put a range against the wall between the windows. Reconfigure that oven wall into a pantry wall, to make up for your lost storage. You could keep the microwave in the same spot, and you have a great pantry/fridge/micro/coffee station for the snackers. Add a wheeled kitchen cart for a little more storage and prep space.

I'm not commenting on the current condition of your cabinets, because I'm just not qualified. Hopefully some of the experts will swing by and tell you how fixable that is.

In the pictures you posted, I see a layout that isnt ideal, but, the kitchen itself looks fairly decent. Since you do not plan to stay there, I would have left it alone, and let your next buyers change it if they wished to do so. Counters look nice, the kitchen looks like it has been recently painted. your backsplash is a nice white. I wouldnt waste any money on doing anymore in there. A full kitchen remodel will cost thousands, to get it the way you want it. A partial redo, is also wasting money. Maybe you can get your money back or at least part of it, from the cabinet refacer. There are many that come on these forums, that would be very happy to have a kitchen that is in as good a condition as yours is.

@cat_ky I understand your point, and perhaps my expectations are too high. I’m posting some more close ups to show you the condition. You’re right that the kitchen was recently painted, but I’m pretty sure the sellers just took a paintbrush to it prior to listing. As you can see, it looks like they didn’t even tape anything off or remove the doors to paint. Also, this may be snobbish, but I don’t love the dated countertops. You definitely are recognizing my concern that a partial redo would just be a waste, but I have to do *something* here for my own sanity. It really bothers me to look at the sellers’ shoddy work everyday.

If you've made a non-refundable deposit already, and don't plan on living there long term, that answers the question in my mind.

Refacing can mean different things to different people, what's included in their bid?

To me, simply ordering new doors from a place like Walzcraft (pre-primed or pre-finished) would have been an ideal budget solution here. Perhaps new hardware as well. Then just a matter of repainting the face frames and whatever repairs to the carcasses are necessary.

I quite like the kitchen fwiw

One of my pet peeves is when people put new counters on old cabinets. When the next person comes along they will likely have to landfill whatever you install which is a terrible waste since you will have sent your current counter to a landfill as well. It's the kind of window dressing flippers do. I know it's difficult to know how long you'll be in the house, but you really might be better off not changing anything and letting the next person worry about it. If you reface, don't change the counter. If you're not going to be in the house long can't you live with the counter? While it's not the latest trend I bet it's in fine working shape. If later on you decide to stay in the house you will want to do a complete remodel.

Ugh I think I know in my heart that I’m throwing good money after bad. Given the nonrefundable deposit, I’d love to find a way to use this refacer to fix those doors, which I think we all can agree are awful. Hardware is really worn too. I think it would be hard to sell this house without fixing those issues (although we fell for it….).

I could replace all the doors and drawer fronts w/ shaker style and more of an overlay, get new soft close hinges on cabinets (not drawer glides), have new hardware installed (hardware itself is extra), and have box frames stripped and painted for roughly $8500.

I could also just refinish and repaint the current doors (and also get the soft close hinges and hardware installed as above), and have box frames stripped and painted for $5,850. Given all the nooks and crannies in the doors and old hardware holes to patch, they still might not look that great….

I’ve requested lots of modifications to the basic refacing I described above to get it to $14K, which I think is where I’ve really gone wrong. Like I mentioned above, I wanted him to lower the peninsula to one level and replace the cabs by the fridge. I also asked him to do some miscellaneous things like remove the valence above the window, replace the shoddy trash pullout, add a spice pullout next to the cooktop in one of the newly built peninsula cabinets, add a shelf in the giant old TV cabinet above the microwave. I understand now that if I want all this, I’m just going to have to gut the place.

Sink and faucet are pretty banged up but I guess I’d just have to live with that if I’m not replacing the counters.

Assuming I need to do *something* about those doors and need to put that $2500 somewhere, would you just do the bare minimum ”refinishing” as opposed to getting new doors?

PS Neither my husband nor I are capable of DIY!! :)

Anyone is capable of DIY, if they try. Sanding flat surfaces is about as easy as any DIY labor gets. There are several Facebook groups dedicated to painting cabinets. You should check them out. There are lots of stories of success from people who thought they weren’t handy enough either.

Does your refacer do things like rollout trays? Maybe you could work a deal to have them do a bunch of rollouts in the kitchen and maybe reface a vanity or something like that?

Really appreciate all the DIY suggestions. I work full time and have a toddler and a newborn. I know that’s just an excuse, but spending the money to hire someone to at least paint the cabinets is worth it to me personally. I know my limitations!

Can you use the deposit towards refacing bathroom cabinets etc? Can he do trim work? Try to work with him...most people are quite reasonable.

@lucky998877 possibly. He’s a really great guy, and I feel terrible about flip flopping because I think he’s put a lot of mental work into coordinating the project. For that reason, I’m inclined to stick with him and just get the current doors and frames refinished (but not new doors), which I really do think is needed. I can’t live with them in their current condition. The chipping paint and all the grime is embarrasing.

Assuming we just repaint and keep the counter, how does everyone feel about the BM Metropolitan gray cabinets with the busy brown granite? Is that color working or should we move toward something like a creamy off white?

I‘d go ahead with the new doors- full overlay and Shaker style will make a big difference in look of cabinets. New hardware will also make a big difference.

The insides of cabinets can show some wear and tear without being tearouts. I have a ten year old custom kitchen that was $70,000 and my cabinet under the sink is beat up simply because that’s where I keep my trashcan, trash bags, and dishwashing supplies- daily high use. Pullouts in the other lower cabinets keep them much more pristine.

Keep the granite and get cabinet refacing color that will look good with the counter color. Some of your other listed upgrades could be rethought to keep costs down. Think of kitchen as being refreshed instead of trying for dream kitchen without complete gut.

What is wrong with the boxes aside from the kinda' shabby under sink bottom? I suspect the crude 2 x 4 sink support makes it look worse than it is. There are much better & tidier ways to support that kind of sink and that don't rob you of storage space. This is one: Pete's Sink Mount

A common tidy up for under the sink is to use self stick floor tiles or a piece of vinyl flooring on the bottom of the cabinet. Better yet, glue some laminate (Formica) on the floor of the cabinet.

More telling as to quality will be the drawers. What material are they built out of, how are the drawers constructed, what kind of drawer slides? Pictures of a drawer box??

Assuming we just repaint and keep the counter, how does everyone feel about the BM Metropolitan gray cabinets with the busy brown granite?

Would you wear gray shoes with a brown dress?

Just FYI, you can absolutely replace the sink and faucet while keeping the countertops. Faucets are an incredibly easy swap. Ask your refacing guy if he can coordinate installing a new sink.

Gray and brown are not a good mix. And gray is heading out of fashion anyway. Your kitchen will look updated longer if you go with a cream or taupe that works with the stone.

@ci_lantro Great question about the drawers. Out of everything, the drawers are probably in the worst shape. Not a smooth glide at all. So in the scenario of doing the bare minimum, I think I’d be most sad about not getting my soft close drawers (which was going to be part of redoing the cabs by the fridge - we were going to do a new base with a stack of 3). Pics below. Can I DIY drawer glides? He would rebuild these soft-close style for $225 each, but them I’m back to throwing good money after bad.

LOL @ brown dress/gray shoes :)

If you can afford it, it’s not good money after bad if it makes you happy for the time you remain in the house which may be longer than you originally intended.

@pkpk23 really appreciate the counterpoint! Makes me feel not so crazy about even considering this.

My 2 cents...

If you can fix enough problems for $14k to not have to spend $25k on a remodel, then that is a great idea. It doesn't matter that $14k is over half way to a nicer remodel, it is still $11k more in your pocket (assuming there are no resale value issues).

Along those same lines, you should spend enough now to avoid spending more in the future. The last thing you want is to waste $9k on a solution that you just end up tearing out in the future.

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Having said that, I probably wouldn't spend $14k on refacing, just not that big a fan of refacing.

I think you should do the new drawer and door fronts and new counters all one level, but skip some of the cabinet interior upgrades and leave the fridge area alone. Spices are better in a drawer rather than an expensive pull-out. You can add soft close later for not much money but I don’t think it’s really necessary. Tray dividers are better above the microwave than a shelf (which you still wouldn’t be able to reach). These Rev a Shelf dividers are cheap and you can screw them into the cabinet bottom yourself:

Since you've got sunk money in with the refacer.....why not consider new boxes from IKEA and the refacer supplies the doors. Then you could change up the worst aspects of your layout when you install the new boxes. Have a conversation with your refacing guy and see if that would work with him. OR, he may have a suggestion for a place that can supply the boxes (or maybe even he can supply the boxes you need). I find that when you have a conversation with vendors, they often have solutions to the issues but maybe have hesitated prior as they didn't want to be seen to be pushing for a bigger sale etc. A contractor we have used for several renovations (kitchen being the latest) has plenty of good ideas and suggestions based on experience on other jobs, other suppliers he's worked with etc. It is worth asking.

IMO Ikea cabinets are fantastic. I know they are not everyone's dream kitchen but they are functional and durable and have good design ideas and good hardware. You could do a LOT worse than IKEA for sure and if he can customize your doors/drawers, then you can choose the style/colour etc that you like without feeling constrained by what you already have.

Oh and definitely new hardware - that doesn't have to be expensive (can be but doesn't have to be)....ask your door supplier if he carries them.....but you can even order in bulk from Amazon etc - so many nice choices out there and updated hardware can make a big difference to the overall look in the kitchen.

Those pictures only tell me that the drawers are real wood. Which is good.

But I can't tell what kind of slides you have for sure. Side mount full extension ball bearing slides or cheapo 3/4 extension Euro slides?

If you have 1/2" clearance between the drawer box & cabinet frame, you can use side mount ball bearing glides. Undermount glides need less side clearance but require a 1/2" recess on the drawer bottom as well as 1/2" clearance above and below the drawer box.

Since you said that both you & your husband aren't capable of DIY---drawer slides isn't really a beginner DIY project.

If you have Euro slides then you probably have enough clearance for side mount full/ over extension slides. If the drawer boxes are in good repair or easily repaired & you have adequate clearance between box & cabinet frame, I would opt for the side mount slides. Definitely a 2-3 steps up over Euros. And much much less expensive than new boxes & undermount slides.

If you have side mount ball bearing slides--perhaps they would benefit from cleaning & lubricating. Or replacement with a better quality/ brand of slide with proven a track record.

They are cheap epoxy roller glides. Replacing the plastic rollers is an easy and cheap DIY thing that will help them operate better. It won’t improve any structural issues with the drawers themselves. Some finish nails and glue can do that. Replacing them with better glides is also very DIYable. Just start watching some YouTube.

Sorry @ci_lantro, wasn’t sure exactly what you needed. Here are a couple more pics. Drawer boxes are 14 3/8” wide (just boxes, not fronts or hardware) and 4” tall. Openings are 15 9/16” wide and 5” tall. It feels like the drawers are coming off their tracks all the time.

@mvcanada I had IKEA cabinets at my last house and loved them (didn’t even know they were IKEA til we moved) so I definitely would not have a problem with that. Pardon my ignorance, but how difficult would it be for the refacer to match the finish of the IKEA boxes to the new doors if I were to suggest that route?

I also really like the suggestion of asking if there is someone locally who can provide the boxes. The refacer can build them I know, but it feels like he’s charging us a lot… Maybe because he doesn’t build these at scale? For reference, he’s charging us $1600 to build the two new counter height boxes on the outside of the peninsula, and $2500 to build us an upper cabinet and base cabinet w/ drawers for the area to the right of the fridge. This is in addition to the $8500 to reface everything. Adding those new cabinets from scratch did not lower the initial refacing estimate, his point being that he would still need to provide the doors and hinges, so that was part of the refacing. I took it to mean that the $1600 and $2500 was just the boxes (and 3 drawer boxes I guess). Doesn’t that seem high? Maybe I just don’t know what I’m talking about!

I wanted to take a quick second to thank everyone who has contributed here. This has been so helpful, and I am so grateful for y‘all taking the time to respond!

I don't think you necessarily need to worry about matching IKEA boxes to doors. A refacer generally would be providing not just doors but matching filler strips and end panels. So I'd think that he could likely supply all the bits and pieces needed so that your IKEA boxes are not on "display" but are rather the bones for your new doors etc. He'll need to make the doors such that they cover the frame (not inset doors) But the place to start is talking to your refacer. If he understands that you would like to take this approach, he will likely be able to review and rethink his quote for you and pull the project together. Maybe I'm assuming too much but that would be my expectation for someone in his line of work.

Here are a couple of companies that make doors/drawers etc to fit IKEA cabinets and there are others out there as well.

Semi Handmade

Nieu Cabinet Doors

Does your refacer guy have other items such as counters, sinks, faucets etc at his shop? Maybe you'll find a kitchen style at IKEA or one of the others I've linked above and he does some custom work to match or he does the counters and hardware etc - so that you can still take advantage of the deposit you've paid. My gosh....that Nieu site has some gorgeous wood options - some walnut - I'm a sucker for white cabinets with some walnut pieces - maybe an island or some shelves or trim etc. Sorry....its easy for others to spend your hard earned money for you.....but you definitely don't want to walk away from that deposit.

Talk to him about options and see what ideas he has for you. I'll bet you can make this work and still keep things budget friendly.

@elizht - Here is my opinion.

First, your cabinets. Your cabinet frames, drawer fronts, doors and drawer boxes seem to be good quality, ignore anyone saying otherwise. Your cabinets are obviously older and the joints all look fine. Various quality indicators are used to to determine whether cabinets will hold up well over their life, they should not be applied to older cabinets. Older cabinets are good quality when they have held up well and yours apparently have. They have a pretty crappy paint job on them, but that looks like a previous owner changing the color on a budget. This doesn't mean the drawer glides are good quality, they should be replaced and that is likely something that you could DIY if you want with a good drawer slide jig (just take your time).

While your cabinets may be good quality they don't necessarily function efficiently. Whether the layout is good and drawers vs. doors is another matter altogether. If you are considering replacement to get more functionality, then great. However, if you are just trying to achieve better quality then don't.

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Next, my 2 cents on the refacing industry. I am not a fan. Refacing products and processes are relatively simple and rather inexpensive but customers are charged a premium because their other options are so expensive and disruptive. So your cabinet refacer is probably charging you a lot. I suspect that a handyman or cabinet installer can replace your drawer slides much cheaper than $225 per drawer.

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"how difficult would it be for the refacer to match the finish of the IKEA boxes to the new doors if I were to suggest that route?"

IKEA boxes are not matched, they are covered. The fronts are covered by the drawers and doors so only filler strips and side panels need to match and those can be ordered to match the doors.

Thanks @bry911. I agree they’ve held up, but, to your point, functionality is really lacking, particularly lack of drawers. I‘ve been trying to increase functionality by requesting modifications, but that’s where the cost has really increased and made me consider starting over with new cabinets. It also drives me *nuts* that the upper cabinets were installed over the original window molding. They’re in better shape than the base cabinets and if they had been installed correctly, I wouldn’t be itching to replace them. One solution for that (if we reface and not replace) is to remove the remaining bit of molding and install backsplash all the way to the window, but I still think it will look incorrect.

It’s also frustrating that the cabinets by the fridge are actually in the best shape internally (other than the drawer glides), but they’re the least functional. That skinny broom cabinet is worthless. It has these shallow shelves in the back that don’t fit anything, and there could be much-needed counter space there instead. I wanted to rework that area, but again, that’s a really big expense from our refacer + would require work on the walls.

These are all really wonderful thoughts. I’m thinking the best next step is to press pause on the project and have a chat with the refacer about creative solutions. Maybe we’ll still end up refacing, replacing the counters, the whole 9 yards….. but clearly there are some good arguments against this and I need to spend more time thinking it through.

You know yourself best. If you think you aren’t going to be happy in the end by trying to make incremental changes, start over with all new cabinetry. I agree with the poster who gets irked at new everything else on top of bad cabinets/bad cabinet layout. I’d bite the bullet once and start over, because I know I wouldn’t be happy with only refacing.

@elizht - There are other options. Face frame cabinetry can usually be refaced. You can't change the width or location of cabinet boxes, but you can easily convert from doors to drawers and vice versa.

This is quite a bit more expensive than simply refacing but it may produce better results and should be in-line with your current estimate for refacing plus modifications.

A good finish carpenter can do this, but it may be a bit difficult to find one.