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nnmjdklil

Picea pungens 'The Blues'… dying??

nnmjdklil
23 days ago

Hello all,

Hoping for some help/guidance, if it’s not too late. We bought this tree back in 2017 and at first it was thriving, gorgeous. But in recent years starting around 2022, I’ve noticed it’s looking more and more unhappy. At first just on the side that doesn’t get sun until late afternoon but it’s been getting worse and seemingly starting to affect the entire tree. I will show photos from both angles, and progression. I know the pictures I’ve taken this year are before any new growth but it’s extremely alarming and I figure if there’s any chance to make it happy again, I should get ahead of it quickly this season! Any help or insight would be very greatly appreciated.








Comments (20)

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    23 days ago

    Unless you live in Colorado or somewhere else up in the Rockies, what is happening to your tree is pretty classic blue spruce/Picea pungens decline. Because most continental US climates are not to their liking, they inevitably get needlecast and will lose needles, beginning on the lower branches and working their way up the tree.

    There is not much one can do to prevent this nor to correct it. Just don't plant any more Colorado blue spruces! And consider what you might like to replace this one with, once it starts looking really ratty.

  • plantkiller_il_5
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    I do agree with gg,,but you could try spraying with Daconill to slow progression of disease .

    ron


  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    22 days ago

    Thanks guys, this is very sad news :(


    and hi, Ron! Glad to see you’re still around, I remember getting a lot of helpful insight and inspiration from you some years back. Hoping to get back into more chatting here this season.

  • plantkiller_il_5
    22 days ago

    BRING IT ON

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    18 days ago
    last modified: 18 days ago

    I would be philosophically opposed overarching federal laws, on principle, for a lot of reasons, but I wish they would pass one to ban the sale of these in all but the northern tier, PNW, and high elevation intermountain west. I cannot think of a single tree people must spend more money on to end up with something that will eventually be dead or diseased and disfigured. It's a glaring indictment of the greed and stupidity of our country's landscaping plant production industry. And people go on planting them! Some poor ignorant fool on my street just planted one! When all of the others in town are dead or hideous! The local upper Ches. Bay climate is ESPECIALLY not to their liking, because there's just always a baseline of humidity in summer that never goes away, no matter how strong a cold front comes through.


    Even the ones at my brother's large property in the outer suburbs of Philly, on rather calcareous and fast draining soil (he's on top of a low ridge) that looked good for almost a couple decades, are now starting to wane and lose needles. In the case of those I think the 'bare bones' (literally, there are whitish chucks of limestone when you dig!) soil and relatively (by I-95 corridor standards) cool nights slowed the still inevitable decline. Of course they were on a property line and planted by a neighbor, even 20 years ago I would have strongly advised him not to plant CBS.

    I remind people of my helpful decision tree LOL...



  • BillMN-z-2-3-4
    18 days ago
    last modified: 18 days ago

    Even up in my cooler, short summers, you can't find a CBS without seeing through the blackened inside branches all the way to daylight. Very few needles on the inside once you get past last year's growth. I'm sure it's an emotional thing when people that have no clue see them at the nurseries and are taken in by 'Such a beautiful Tree' sitting there, in a pot.

  • plantkiller_il_5
    18 days ago

    BUT , up the street there is one (35ft) with thick foliage all the way to the ground.

    And my 'Skyland' does not seem to be affected . I have to spray my other 5 dwarfs , but still see small needle loss .

    Took out a 40 footer few years ago , and my big 'Fat albert' gets shorter every year from the ground up.

    ron

  • steve duggins
    13 days ago

    Your 'The Blues' was very pretty. So sad to see its demise. Hopefully you can still get a few years out of it.

    I heard that the dwarf CBS don't exhibit the needlecast but Ron indicates otherwise. I couldn't resist planting a couple 'Ruby Teardrops' by our front door. I wonder if I should start spraying Daconill now or wait (I'm a big fan of waiting) until I see signs.

    I chose the P.e. 'Bush's Lace' further from the house, but I see the one at Dawes seems a little needlecasty. I'm hoping its just the shady side or something else.

  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    13 days ago

    This is all great knowledge and I wish I had had this conversation beforehand. Although I will say in response to David’s “decision tree”, that would not have helped me in the least as there are a couple beautiful mature CBS around my neighborhood, though admittedly now that you have me looking I am seeing my fair share of sad ones as well although they appear to be the huge ones. Sigh. The whole thing has had me very sad. It’s probably my favorite tree in my yard, or at least it was when it was still looking beautiful :(

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    13 days ago

    I would just add that dwarf cultivars of CBS are just as likely to contract needlecast as any other cultivar. Their size does NOT make them any more resistant. But because they are squat and compact, the symptoms are not as in your face as they are with larger specimens.

  • plantkiller_il_5
    13 days ago

    Nicole ,you are out east , right ? Maybe this is more available .

    Skyline

    Picea pungens 'Skyline'

  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    13 days ago

    That’s gorgeous Ron but too big to put next to the house right? Although I guess technically mine was too but I just figured I would train it to go over the sidewalk and make an arch when I needed to lol. Honestly I love mine so much I’m half tempted to replace it with another and just spray right from the beginning. I am a glutton for punishment though. Or maybe if I planted another one, I could just give it its own spot in the yard with no other plants around it? Do we think having more air circulation around the tree helps? I know most of you are wringing your hands and thinking about how hopeless I am… and you would be right

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 days ago

    " Do we think having more air circulation around the tree helps? "

    Nope. The issue is almost entirely climate related. And IME, spraying has little to no effect as well. Just opt for something other than CBS. Virtually no other conifer has this problem to this degree.

  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    12 days ago

    OK so now the trick is to find the bluest non-CBS dwarf conifer I can find. Something that’s interesting enough to be on the corner… Although I do plan to hold onto this a couple of more years if it all possible. I guess we’ll see how it does after spring growth.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 days ago

    If you can find it grafted onto a suitable rootstock, Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Blue Surprise' is pretty darn blue and stays small.

  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    9 days ago

    WHOA

  • nnmjdklil
    Original Author
    6 days ago

    So GG, when you say suitable rootstock… Is this something I am able to look at and discern with my own eyes or is it safe to just order from a reputable place? I’ve placed orders with both Conifer Kingdom and Western Evergreen and I have had consistently better results with them than even my highly rated local garden center

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    6 days ago

    I believe the favored rootstock is Sawara cypress or Chamaecyparis pisifera. I'm not sure you would be able to discern this just visually (I wouldn't be able to) but most better sellers should be selling grafted plants to avoid excessive disease issues and better tolerance to summer heat and humidity. Ask :-))

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    6 days ago

    " I believe the favored rootstock is Sawara cypress or Chamaecyparis pisifera. "

    FWIW, I have asked around for Lawson cultivars on Sawara and haven't been able to find that being offered.

    If anyone knows of a wholesaler producing such liners, please post it here. At the moment the PNW wholesalers seem to use a Lawson rootstock that does show better disease resistance *IN THE PNW* - not much help for the rest of us!

    The long term non-adaptability of straight cutting grown Lawsons around here explains, for example, why the incredible cultivar 'Imbricata Pendula' isn't seen at Longwood, or National Arboretum, etc. etc. It's a real shame - I'd love one. One of the most amazing looking weeping plant cultivars, period.