NEED kitchen design help thinking outside the box!!

10 years ago

WE are at an impase with our kitchen design. We need more counter space, storage and additional seating (we only have about 500 sq ft of living space) but I don't know how we can accomodate all three things without a major remodel. Our 1985 kitchen is 11.5 x 11.3 roughly, see bad sketch. Option 1 is make peninsula off halfwall (storage and coutner/seating) and put storage & countertop on unoccupied wall (problem: big spance of space in middle of room, we have a butcher block in middle now and it is VERY useful), option 2 take down half wall and put island in middle of room (storage & counter/seating) ( problem: lose storage/counter on back wall and too close to wall for comfort of seating?) Option 3:?????? Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!
PS. needs to be kid friendly, 2 & 3 yo.
Thank you!!!!

Featured Answer

PRO

Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc

10 years ago

astruhan.....Here's a version of the peninsula plan which I think works quite well. I brought the peninsula into the kitchen about 15" to decrease the amount of space in the middle of the room and provide additional space for the stools at the counter seating. I attached a picture of a waterfall counter that I think grounds the peninsula more so that it doesn't look like it's floating in the middle of the room. I also added a full height pantry and two 15" deep base cabinets. This should give you lots of additional storage. I am also attaching a picture from the Ikea website of one of their expandable tables. Something like this could work well in the dining room. You can keep it small for everyday use and then open it up for company. It may be a little tight when open all the way, but that's not an everyday concern.

ideas · More Info

I https://www.houzz.com/photos/cats-house-eclectic-kitchen-stockholm-phvw-vp~882260

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Comments (53)

astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
annmarie2: Hadn't thought of that one, would just have to figure out how to run water to it. I guess under through the crawlspace?
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I did some not 100% to scale but close sketches if I could get some opinions. After cooking for Thanksgiving having something in the middle of the room was really helpful but not sure how I can keep it and still have good flow
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suzanne_m
10 years ago
When you say 'water to it', do you mean water to the refrigerator?
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
yes, for the ice maker
suzanne_m
10 years ago
Do you have a window in front of the sink? Does the sink have to be in that location?
Joyce K
10 years ago
Definitely having the same issue so hopefully you will receive some great advice as it will help others in the same boat!
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
suzanne_m: yes we have a window over the sink. Does it cost a lot to move a sink?? If not, then no it can be moved or if it really can make or break the deal then maybe but we are trying to do it on a smaller budget if at all possible

Joyce K: I certainly hope so! I can't have more than 6 people over for dinner comfortably as it stands now and I'm using my linen closet as a pantry and a bedroom closet as a linen closet. I think I just need a bigger house but we bought when prices were high so we are stuck for a while.
suzanne_m
10 years ago
I don't know how much it would cost but I don't really have an idea even if the sink could be moved but I just asked so I am not looking for options where we move the sink if it can't be moved. I will think about your dilemma and if I come up with something I will let you know for sure. So far, all I can think is an island on wheels where you can move in the middle when you need temporary extra counter but it does not solve the issue of where to put it.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you suzanne. If you think of anything it would be appreciated!!
suzanne_m
10 years ago
I am not convinced this is a good plan or if it can be feasible but maybe that will generate other ideas. Also, I removed something in the dining room which I believe is a buffet and I wonder if it can be relocated or completely removed. Note, that I extended the kitchen along the window wall.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
yes that was a buffet/china cabinet. I could get rid of it if i was to put in tall cabinets with glass front to show off my china in the kitchen. We would only be able to go out along the window wall about 3-4 ft before another set of windows are reached. Thank you for the idea!!!
suzanne_m
10 years ago
And I just remember that you said you don't know if you can move the refrigerator on the bearing wall :(
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
It's a balance of allowing the correct amount of space to walk past the table and chairs / bar seating and to add to the kitchen .... Depending on which location you are too - eg. USA has guidelines that would restrict some of your ideas. Ie 18" between bar and furniture is way too tight .... Also Is the wall continued in the dining area - as this would make a difference too , as it is no longer a walk through on one side - so can be smaller tolerance on one side ! In order to fully take all these (boring but here for your health and safety) factors into consideration, if you could post a more detailed, sized sketch or computer sketch showing where all the walls are together with the size of your furniture and appliances etc too ... It will be most helpful ! Thanks ! ( sorry to be dull !!)
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
Here are some pictures of my favorite kitchens with narrow islands and tight aisle space. I built on your 1st plan above but enlarged the space around the island. Minimum recommended space needed to move around in is 36". I usually prefer 42", but sometimes you just have to work with what you have. I would do a freestanding island open below for seating that can tuck in when not needed.
Contemporary Kitchen · More Info

Chef's Kitchen · More Info

Stamford Kitchen · More Info

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suzanne_m
10 years ago
I really like Madden's layout and luckily, the refrigerator is already where she recommends to be moved. Instead of a table, I would make it an island with storage below. The only problem is if you add all the inches of the plan above, the sum is 11'-9" and you said you have about 11'-6". I wonder if you can have base cabinets build 21" deep instead of 24". If you can, your island would be 33" deep and it would fit in your layout.
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
Just another version.
ideas · More Info
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
suzanne......I extended the island past the existing walls to the dining room. (Walls are generally about 4-5" deep) That's where I gained the extra few inches. I never mind if someone checks my math though! You can have base cabinets made in reduced depths, but the sink base and the cooktop/range still need the full 24".
suzanne_m
10 years ago
The calculations I am doing is the depth of the counter where the sink is + space to move + width of the island + space to move + pantry = 2' + 3' + 3' + 3' + 9" = 11'-9" and I believe astruhan said she has 11'-6". Astruhan said her room is ABOUT 11.5 x 11.3, it would be nice if the ABOUT is on the bigger side instead of the smaller side :) I am glad to hear that you can have shallower base cabinets. Thanks for the info.
suzanne_m
10 years ago
Sorry, my mistake, you draw a 24 in. deep table, I read 36 in. But that was the height not the depth.
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
It's easy to make mistakes with numbers - that's why I don't mind if someone questions my math at all.
suzanne_m
10 years ago
This is what it could become if I change the 24" deep table in your floor plan for a 33" deep island with 21" deep base cabinet.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
OnePlan: I am in the US so thank you for the guidelines. The exterior wall does go through the dining room. It is about 12' long. Sorry for the poor sketch, that was my first time playing with the floor planning program. I played around with what I originally posted and made some of it more exact but I will get better numbers tonight
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Wow, thanks for all the discussion Madden & Suzanne! I am confident on the dimensions of the room of 11.3 and 11.5. It is the other rooms I'm not sure of, ie dining room which someone asked about earlier. It seems like the consensus is to do a narrow island in the middle of the island? Or is that just what you are considering at the moment because I mentioned how valuable I thought that surface would be in the middle of the room? Which would have the best flow, peninsula, T or island in the middle. I had a thought last night about a moveable island that I can use like a T off the middle wall and then slide it over to make seating closer to the dining room table for larger gatherings. Thank you all for all this info!!!!
PRO
Dytecture
10 years ago
Great advices so far. Definitely open up the kitchen with the rest of the spaces as drawn by astruhan.
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
I like opening it up with a narrow island just because there is so much space in the middle. It really depends on if you are comfortable in a tighter space. My guess is that since you live in a small house, you are already used to close quarters.
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
btw - where is the refrigerator now? I'm a little confused.
suzanne_m
10 years ago
I find Madden's idea of a pantry on the bearing wall is really good because it allows you to use the large space in the middle and still have 'acceptable' space to move around. I would consider making your island 2'-6" deep so you can make your pantry 1'-0" deep which items like a cereals box can be store.

I am not sure I understand the moving island idea and where you keep it when not in use. Can you draw something? It seems a good idea too.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
The refrigerator is on the interior wall near the stove, next to the opening of the kitchen to the hallway/entryway. The thing that looks like an asterisk on the drawing. Not sure if I used the correct item on the floor planner design :-?
suzanne_m
10 years ago
Ok. I understand what you mean about the moving island. What I would do instead is when you have large gathering, I would rotate the dining table 90 degrees and place it beside the island. If you need more seating for those gathering I would keep a small table in the basement and place a 4' x 8' sheet on top and make a L shape so that extension goes towards the living room.

Madden, the refrigerator is that rectangle beside the range. It has a star on it because the refrigerator has an ice maker and uses plumbing. I am sure astruhan is really happy that you drew a floor plan where she does not need to move the plumbing.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Contemporary Kitchen by Seattle Architects & Designers http://st.houzz.com/simgs/6691d616006cffac_5-0405/home-design.jpgMAKE Design Studio
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
not sure if I did it right but the link above is a picture from this site that has a table coming off from the wall. That gave me an idea about one that can slide from the middle of the kitchen, to be used as prep surface or to slide towards dining room so people can sit closer
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Yes, Susanne, very happy, as is my wallet to not have to move plumbing
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks Suzanne, did not think about rotating the table, I was so focused on the kitchen did not think of other options.
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Ok - thinking outside the kitchen ! Well using the extra space along the wall and moving the table around might enable more storage cabinets this way...
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
Really really rough draft - you could have wall units and extractor fans etc - was just getting the idea down so you could offer an opinion ...
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
Or ...
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
You could make the island deeper in the second option and add wall units or tall pantry units etc - again is just getting to outlines on to give you options - I have to disappear now - as have a chat session booked with a client to discuss their project - I will pop back on the thread later, to see your comments ! :-) Karen AKA OnePlan
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you! I appreciate all options. On paper it looks like I would have a lot of room but I can't envision taking away 2' of the dining room and moving the table over more towards the living room. I think it might be cramped but it is certainly something to consider. Let me mull it over :)
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
10 years ago
astruhan...........I think I got it to paste a little better. It is really cute.
Central District Kitchen Remodel · More Info
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
I like it but not sure if it will solve any of my problems :)
PRO
OnePlan
10 years ago
http://houzz.com/photos/4349765
if you want more cupboards but want to keep them in the kitchen why not have deeper base units and wider worktops and wall cupboards that go all the way to the worktop - a bit like this design I did for a houzzer ?
PRO
Darlene Somrak, CKD of Somrak Kitchens, Inc.
10 years ago
astruhan, if you will be purchasing new cabinetry why are you not consulting a professional kitchen designer? They know kitchens and their products best and their advice is invaluable.
astruhan
Original Author
10 years ago
We are just in the conceptulization (and agreeing between spouses) phase of our project and as it progresses we will be discussing our plan with a kitchen designer. I like to have ideas to go to them with so I feel more prepared and this forum and the people who have so kindly contributed have given me many ideas.
suzanne_m
10 years ago
I like both plans from Madden, Slick and Bonento. The first one gives you a bit more storage (if you change the table for an island). The second one gives you more space to walk around and the general look will feel more spacious. Both use the space efficiently. It is a matter of choosing between having more space to move around or more storage. What I also like about Madden's plans is that he/she is paying attention to standards that you would will be able to find when shopping for cabinets. I believe you could probably enlarge the pantry by 3 or 6 inches in the second plan.
PRO
LEICHT New York
10 years ago
Hi astruhan,
If you're in the area, you should join us for breakfast and check out our free kitchen session every 2nd Saturday of the month: http://leichtnewyork.com/how-much-will-your-kitchen-cost-class-registration

All the best with your kitchen design! Let us know if you have any questions.
PRO
Design Details
10 years ago
Good work astruhan. It's good to have an idea about who you are and what you agree on when you sit down with your kitchen designer. Designers are space and finish experts but we are also often called upon to be psychologists, marriage counselors, and referees. I find that clients who know what's important to them are easy to please. Just don't get too hung up in the details at this point.
astruhan thanked Design Details
astruhan
Original Author
9 years ago
We finished the kitchen and I thought I would post a picture of the finished product. we love our kitchen now!
suzanne_m
9 years ago
This is beautiful!! Congratulations!! It looks very functional too.
PRO
Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
9 years ago
Thanks for posting a picture. It's fun to see what people actually end up doing. Your kitchen turned out beautifully!