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mamabear03

Builder says NO:Kitchen Cabs: I want White Dove Semi.or.High-gloss.WTH

mamabear03
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Found out this morning my builder and I have another major misunderstanding. I was under the impression that the upgrade to maple cabinets was to have better paintable results. I let him know my color choice was White Dove.

He had told the cabinet maker to use "white enamel." As if there is one white and I have no say about the shade of white. Builder says painting them is going to be difficult and that a regular paint is not going to be tough enough to handle regular kitchen use.

I said why do I see hundreds of homes online with White Dove or similar painted color of the homeowner's choosing. He said basically that "internet world" isnt real and the pictures I'm seeing arent by builders! He can't recommend I go with regular paint. He says he doesn't know if he'll do it because he can't stand by that work.

He's supposed to be calling me later today after meeting with his cabinet maker guy.

What am I supposed do I do now? This guy is killing me!

(P.S. IF he does come around, do I choose Semi or High gloss paint for the cabs?? We have a Traditional Style. )

Comments (15)

  • PRO
    I for Design Kitchen & Bath
    9 years ago
    Tell him to get White Dove, but provide him with the manufacturer's name... eg... Para, Benjamin Moore.... You are paying for the cabinets, and unless you signed something that said White Enamel, you can discuss your choice in colours. My cabinet supplier uses a cabinet paint, but can match any colour I give him. It IS special order. One thing I know, if you are painting wood (and I don't know the style of door) there is a risk of movement in the wood. It has to breathe, and will breathe with different humidity levels, therefore it may crack at any joins, mitres and may show the wood base.
    mamabear03 thanked I for Design Kitchen & Bath
  • mamabear03
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    I need to find out more about "cabinet paint" I guess and give the info to those guys. I dont know what to do otherwise!

    Also the door style is raised panel.
  • mamabear03
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    Thank you for helping me understand that.

    Help me jump ahead then, for the "What if" that is about to come...

    What should I do if my only choices are the crappy stark-white enamel or a plain-old paint in White Dove?? My trim and everything else white in the house will be the White Dove. I don't think the interior paint has been actually purchased yet, so perhaps I could change all the white to a stark white to match the cabs. I really don't want to though!
  • PRO
    User
    9 years ago
    Your cabinets do not have to match your trim! In fact, it's a much more interesting, layered look, if you use several different whites in the room. It adds dimension to use different shades and textures. Don't sweat that issue at all! Just plan to maybe use a matte backsplash in a slightly different white, a shiny counter in another shade, and wall paint in a another shade and sheen. And add in natural materials like wood and stone. It can all work. I promise!
    mamabear03 thanked User
  • PRO
    PPF.
    9 years ago
    ProSource is correct on the finish.

    Why not visit the cabinetmaker yourself. Explain what you expect, and see if he is able to do it.

    There are some good cabinet paints available, but none will be as durable as a true cabinet grade finish such as a conversion varnish.
    mamabear03 thanked PPF.
  • mamabear03
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    ProSource, Our granite (leathered finish) and backsplash (polished marble) materials have been purchased. I've linked them below. I've chosen "Accessible Beige" by Sherwin Williams as a wall color. It looks a lot more gray on my color swatch in the house than this example online.

    The white the guy uses for his enamel white is a brighter white than the White Dove. There's crown molding on top and I'm not sure what those will be painted/enameled then. I'm afraid not matching is going to look really "wrong" and not done on purpose :(

    Please answer me this...
    Do MOST PEOPLE do a basic white cabinet finish? Why do I see so many pics on Houzz.com with cabinets in my White Dove???
  • PRO
    User
    9 years ago
    Your granite and backsplash will definately work with brighter white cabinets. It's the wall color that's the odd man out here. It's looking much too tan against the backsplash. The good news is that paint is easy to change out later after you move in. Paint is the easiest element in any room as you can color match anything.
    mamabear03 thanked User
  • PRO
    Urbanata/Steve
    9 years ago
    If the cabinet maker is a small sop chances are he does not have the right equipment or experience to deal with a conversion varnish paint but why not ask. If he can you can paint the cabinets any color of the rainbow but I agree with the advice to NOT MATCH your paint trim as it will look very boring.
    mamabear03 thanked Urbanata/Steve
  • PRO
    Laurie Brasnett
    9 years ago
    This is why having a qualified kitchen and bath designer is important. The communication on this project is poor at best, perhaps you can sit down with another person and work through this. Here is my attempt to mediate. You would be wise to hold off and delay rather than rush in and live with less than optimal result. Details count. There are reasons why good manufacturers do not deal directly with customers, they use a K&B designer who knows several manufacturers and each cabinet manufacturer's distinctives. I have worked with 10 different custom and semi-custom manufacturers. They are all great companies with great product and have some slight differences but the science is the same.

    The basics: Dove white paint is quite gray, it is not white. Ensure you are talking about the same colour: pay for a door sample before you order your cabinets. Best money you will spend for peace of mind. Here is why... chemistry and physics.

    When your cabinet manufacturer paints cabinets they likely will use two coats of paint designed to go in their spray heads (not like the can of paint we purchase at the paint store) and then two coats of catalyzed finish and that changes/ mellows the finish colour. That is why the final colour is different than the custom colour chip you got at the paint store. When a catalyzed finish (which is superior) is over a gray, the yellowing really shows. This may or may not be good depending on the customer's preferences. This is where a Kitchen and Bath designer will work with the manufacturer to get you to the correct FINISHED colour. Your mill-work trim and cabinets will not match unless you spend the time and money to match them. If they must match, then order your mill-work/trim through the cabinet company and they will finish everything to match. But... do they need to match? It is always a matter of the homeowners preference, not the builders or designers preference.

    We avoid using the word enamel because it means so many things in different contexts. (In the context of cabinetry it means a special finish that is about 25 times the cost of a stain and catalyzed finish. If you were going for that finish you would have had a sample door in your hand.) The finish on your cabinets likely will be latex or acrylic based not oil based enamel for health and safety interior air quality reasons in Canada. Most American manufacturers also do not use oil based finishes anymore because they are a health hazard to staff and consumer for indoor use. (This is only one reason of many, why you should buy cabinets made in Canada and The USA.) The term enamel is also used for higher sheen by the old boys club, but the industry uses percentages. Generally with a rail and stile door you use a 15% sheen top coat of catalyzed varnish or lacquer. Some are higher or lower. Ask what the percentage of sheen is. Even the trained paint store staff prefer percentages because if they know their paint lines, they can get you to the right sheen also and a perfect match.

    (Becasue these conversations generally flow this way..)
    e·nam·el (-nml) definition
    noun
    1. A vitreous, usually opaque, protective or decorative coating baked on metal, glass, or ceramic ware.
    2. An object having such a coating, as in a piece of cloisonné.
    3. A coating that dries to a hard glossy finish: nail enamel.
    4. A paint that dries to a hard glossy finish.
    5. Anatomy The hard, calcareous substance covering the exposed portion of a tooth.
    verb
    1. To coat, inlay, or decorate with enamel.
    2. To give a glossy or brilliant surface to.
    3. To adorn with a brightly coloured surface.

    BTW, I have seen kitchens where the home owner tried to save money and paint their own crown for the cabinets. It did not work and they lost a lot of money and time.

    FYI, because this will come up in conversation. Whether you paint on paint grade maple or MDF, you still have potential movement, cracking of paint, in the doors, if they are rail and stile or picture frame construction. If they are a solid piece of MDF cut with a CNC machine, you will not have movement unless you smash the doors when opening. MDF is heavier then wood but paints smoother and is less costly: it is better choice for people who like things to always look new. Painted maple is an upgrade but what is the look you want? Perfect smoothness or grain showing?

    Do you have a box or board with generous countertop, backsplash, flooring, and paint samples? This should also have sample door and handle samples. Collect these and gain some piece of mind. Then you can make a wise and beautiful decision. Best wishes and I hope this clarifies what questions you should be asking your contractor.
  • PRO
    Laurie Brasnett
    9 years ago
    White is the number one seller but it includes dove gray and antique white etc etc etc. KInd of a circular formula... pick what you like, the cooks, dishwashers, and cheque signer are the only opinions that matter.
  • Lisa Williams
    8 years ago

    MamaBear, you don't mention if you're building custom or purchasing your home from one of the large, nationwide tract-home builders or even a regional builder. If working with tract or even semi-custom builders, they typically offer cabinet finishes to choose from..maybe 3-5 options with one white option. I've purchased 4 brand new homes and 2 of the 4 offered white cabinets, but I never got to choose the color/shade of white. My options were usually White, Maple, Espresso, etc. with the exact finish being predetermined. If you're building custom, then you I would expect you to be able to specify your finishes exactly. Good luck!

  • PRO
    Ellsworth Design Build
    8 years ago
    Old post 2014
  • PRO
    Urbanata/Steve
    8 years ago

    Who is your cabinet manufacturer? Unless these are custom made, production cabinet companies have standard colors that they offer. If you select a custom color for them then there is an overall cost up-charge from 5 to 20% depending upon the manufacturer. Most production cabinet makers in the US use either Ben Moore or Sherwin Williams paints The process depending upon the quality of the cabinet is anywhere from a 3 to 5 coat process. The paint is protected by a final coat of clear 5% to 20% conversion varnish, the same as on a natural wood finish. This is a durable but obviously not indestructible finish like any, except chips and scratches over time.

  • PRO
    Ellsworth Design Build
    8 years ago

    Good information, but OP is long gone as this post is from 2014