Scott

In past postings Jellyman was a big fan of "Flat Wonderful", a product, I think, of the Rutgers breeding program. I planted one a couple of years ago. Very vigorous tree. I got a few fruits last year and they were excellent. I hope to get a lot more this year if I can defeat the curculio and fruit moth. This variety is not sold widely, but can be obtained through Gurneys.

What kind of hardiness do these have? I wonder with protection if i could get one through a winter here. Maybe potting one up would be smarter.

Saturn is the only one I have experience with and as I have posted many times, I'm not a huge white peach fan, but Saturn is a good one with 2 liabilities. The donut shape holds water and seems to encourage brown rot and it sets a rediculous amount of fruit that requires time consuming thinning to move them up from size tiny to small. I wouldn't recommend Saturn as a top 5 in a home orchard for these 2 reasons, mostly the first.

I have a couple of the Jersey selections, I think 15 and 16, that should have some fruit next year. I get mine from Adams County who carries about 5 or 6 varieties.

Right, I forgot about Flat Wonderful. I tend to ignore anything the Gurneys etc croneys have an exclusive on but it sounds like a good one. I am probably going to try a couple others, e.g. some of the NJ ones and maybe Flat Wonderful as well.

I agree about rot issues, particularly on the softer ones like Saturn. Galaxy is more firm and doesn't rot at all, in spite of the huge split pits which you think would be a great entry point for rot (I think the fact that they always split on the bottom where the rain cannot come in is why it is not a problem). Both rot and thinning issues arise with Sweet Bagel, in fact for me it has been worse than Saturn on the oversetting - unbelievable!

One of the reasons why I am interested in the flat peaches is it seems to me that the flatness helps concentrate the flavor to make a richer-tasting peach. In nectarines there is a similar effect. I'm not sure if its something physical about the flatness or fuzzlessness that changes the way the flesh develops or if there is a genetic alignment in that the genes for flat or fuzzless also carry flavor traits.

Oh I had the NC peach wrong, its not Galaxian its Galactica.

Scott

Scott: Thanks for the report, first class as always!!!

Have you tried any flat nectarines? Anyone else?

Yeah Scott, good post.

It may also be the small size that concentrates the flavor. Nectarines run small as well, but the increase flavor of nectarines seems also to be the acid which isn't the case with Saturn.

Thanks Scott,

I'm particularly interested in some of the yellow peentos, if you try them, please post how they do.

We have some friends a couple miles away that have a Flat Wonderful. Of course they don't do anything to it, and it's planted in a shady location. The fruit rots, but they leave the mummies on. Considering lack of care, it looks pretty good. Based on that observation, I ordered one for this spring.

I tried a Saturn once from the grocery store. They were in special packing and cost about a buck a piece. They were actually pretty good for a white peach.

Peentos tend to have a pretty low chill requirement.

For the last 5 yrs I'm particularly interested in the propagation of Prunus species through seeds. Purely out of curiosity and my desire for special varieties. (unobtainable)
During these experiments there were disappointments but equally remarkable successes to report. Some peaches and nectarines come fairly true to parent fruit in particular for white nectarines and peaches. Might be good to know , over here (the Netherlands) itÂs unusual to grow Peaches & Nectarines. In this humid climate, itÂs a big challenge to pick a few fine nectarines from backyard.

At the moment my two yearÂs flat nec seedling in pot (variety: Mesembrine ) is bearing a couple of fruits.
They will mature in a few days, I'll give a quality report later.

see photo impression

Will

Here is a link that might be useful: Flat nectarine pit growing

I like the Flat Wonderful when they are getting color and full size. Just before the sugar develops they have a tangy taste I like better than ripe.

I have a white flat peach that I think is Saturn, it's been too long and I don't label trees as I probably should, just rely on memory that is getting less reliable as I get older.

Anyway, it is bearing right now, and I agree with the above assessment -- the fruit is very small and prone to rot. Flavor is good, but really it's not very productive compared to a regular peach. I wouldn't plant one again.

Will, thats impressive that you got a flat nectarine seed to grow. Breeders say to use the flat one as the pollen parent so the seed will be normal shape, they say those flat ones are usually infertile.

My interest in the flat peaches has been declining this year, too much rotting. I lost nearly all the saturns to rot. All of them seem highly prone to rot. Still, they are some of the very best-tasting peaches so I'm going to keep looking for a good one. Right now my Galaxy are coming in; not as much rot as the Saturns, but also not up to the flavor of Saturn.

Scott

My suspicion is the problems with rot reflect less on the cultivars than the conditions they are grown in. My Flat Wonderful is going into its third year and has had zero disease problems. I spray lime sulphur once in before the tree leafs out and that is it for disease sprays. But my fruit trees get full sun all day and have very good air circulation. I had a nice crop of peaches this year, the first year of serious production. They are very tasty. The tree is vigorous. I sprayed with permethrin and Spinosad, and on the whole had few problems with either curculio or fruit moth (I stopped spraying about 3 weeks ago). My Mericrest nectarine next to the Flat Wonderful is much more attractive to these bugs and would get hit even a few days after spraying (Kamikaze fruit moths). It is earning its keep as a trap crop. Incidentally, in 5 years I have had zero disease problems with this tree -- a little rot on a very few nectarines and that is it. The difficulty is getting fruit to escape insect attacks, but this year I think I will get some fruit.

Scott,

Thanks for your remarkable story about pollination specific the flat peaches/necs. Sounds completely new to me.
During pollination I brought this plant inside the house still in pink balloon stage same with 2 pluots also growing in pots: dapple dandy and Flavor Queen. Non other peach/nec was in the vicinity during flowering.
These plants were pollinated all at the same time by hand with the same feather I used.
Today the fruit is picked, they started to smell delicious, insects began to eat on it
although not yet in fully ripe stage IÂv already tasted one, firm juicy yellow flesh. With a typical recognizable pronounced nectarine flavor. Sweet/sour is not balanced yet (unripe).

I am looking forward this harvest time, there are several other seedlings I have to assess.

Will

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:58554}}

ATP, the reason why I say they are prone to rot is of the 40 or so varieties I have, of the ones that rot badly (about 6 total), all but two, Silver Logan and Indian Free, are flat peaches. If I sprayed more or had them more open or in more sun they would no doubt all do better, but clearly the flat ones are relatively much worse. I am now harvesting one flat peach and five different non-flat ones. There is no rot to speak of on the five non-flat ones and some rot on the flat ones, Galaxy. Also, I had no rot problems at all until about the 5th year so I wouldn't take the 3rd year of your tree to mean much. Black rot on grapes is similar: they do great for about five years then WHAM.

Scott

ATP, you really haven't learned about brown rot yet if your experience is only with very young trees. As trees get larger they become more prone to the disease. I agree, however, that site is a very important issue and that with summer pruning you can keep trees open enough to reduce pressure at any site.

The Saturn that taught me about its rot susceptibility is in a wide open site with good air and is an open young tree. There are 5 other peach varieties on the site and it is the one with big rot issues. At another open site it might not be, as pressure is not completely predictable even when factoring in tree age, cultivar susceptibility and light and wind exposure.

Cultivar can be just as important as anything and I think after you have gone through lots of seasons with older trees you will find this out if you're growing peaches in the east- even at a nice open site.

A lot of the newer late varieties are susceptible to rot while the old fashioned ones like Elberta and Bell of Georgia seem to be less so.

A donut shaped peach cannot possibly dry out as quickly after rain or even heavy dew as a round one.

Mary, most peaches are pretty good in the rot department. But, it also depends a lot on the weather at ripening time so it takes quite a few years to get good data. I am only now starting to notice patterns.

So far this year the following peaches have been very good and they were ripening at the same time the flat peaches were rotting so thats double good news: Clayton, Ernie's Choice, Winblo, Carolina Belle, Raritan Rose. No rot on any of them and all are nice peaches. All of the flat peaches are prone to rot. The Galaxy flat peach is not getting brown rot, it is getting these bulls-eye rot spots which I have seen in some disease list but I don't remember the name.

I'm not sure why the flat ones are more prone to rot. I'll have to pay attention if the sideways growing ones have less rot; they should drain better, no cup on the top. If that was an issue the guys with a cup for water to collect in could all be thinned out early in the season - flat peach trees all way overset so there is plenty of choice.

Scott

In order to prevent water from collecting on the top of "donut" shaped peaches (thus prevent rot), care should be taken when hand-thinning to leave fruit that are oriented on their sides, not up or down.

One more update .. I finally got some peaches on my "Peento". This is a flat peach variety imported many years ago from China and in the ARS collection. Well, they are excellent!! They are a touch better than Saturn and more importantly to me at this point, no rot at all! They are right next to my Sweet Bagel which still has a long way to go to ripening but already is getting a few rotted fruits every time I look at it. So, based on only one year Peento is in the lead for the best flat peach race. Saturn is probably fine in a commercial spray program but doesn't seem so good in the backyard of a humid climate. Peento has better flesh as well as taste, the Saturn can be a bit stringy and quickly softening and the Peento seems more like a normal peach.

Quite a few of the newer flat peaches were bred from Saturn and I expect that is why so many of them have rot problems. Looking into the ancestry, Saturn is a cross of Pallas and NJ602903; the latter is a cross of Golden Globe and R1T6, and R1T6 in turn is a cross of .. Peento and Early Hale. So this Peento is a great-grandparent of Saturn and only 1/8 of the genes. Pallas has been bad for rot for me so that may be a source.

Scott

Do you know the geneology of the new Rutgers peentos?

I thought I saw it at some point but I can't find it now. I will have my eye out for it related to this rot issue.

Scott

I'm going to put a larger one out this fall and maybe it will fruit next summer. I think I'll try the green one.

A few weeks ago, I dialogged with a commercial peach grower from Georgia (Internet is wonderful for these kinds of things). We talked about the new NJF releases. He's tried all 4 listed on Adams County, and is really excited about them. Keep in mind this is a commercial perspective, but some of the advantages cross over.

What amazed me was the size he was getting. He said the 15's and 17's were packing at 4 to 4.5" The 16's and 18's were 3". No brown rot (this is of course under commercial spray) and no bac. spot. He said the 17's were hard to grow and pretty susc. to scab, even under commercial spray. Splitting was minimal with all varieties (5%). He really liked the flavor of them and said they were good no matter what part of the tree they were picked from, so with careful timing he could strip pick the trees. I guess the all yellow one is a real eye popper at fresh markets as well.

He had me sold on them. I plan to order some for next spring.