At 3 foot I put in 20 plants if just going with wire on cross board if going with wire straight up post I go 4 foot 15 plants on Blackberries. Raspberries 2 to 3 foot. I like wires spread apart 30 inches this let plant lean out too wires year fruit new growth grow straight up while fruiting canes be easier to pick and remove after fruiting Kiowa very thorny and spread outward easy. Chickasaw blackberry should be good variety snowy Michigan (next winter) lol.

GR Not sure I follow your description, do you have pics of your setup?

Nope no photo's I used V Trellis when I commercial grower of Blackberries. That system make very easy to pick and remove cane reason I said cross board that do same as V trellis. If your plan are to bore holes in post that be straight up Trellis then tie canes to wire are weave plant through wires. What your plan's after posts?

I was thinking on just stringing 3 wires at different heights but nothing set in stone yet. I am looking to find out if all these different berries can be planted next to each other with no ill effects and how close to plant so I know how many to order.

It's conventional wisdom that you are not supposed to inter-mix black and raspberries together. However I've seen posts from people who intermix without a problem. I do so myself as well with no problems yet (going on 2nd year).

I like 3ft spacing too.

I have Anne. It was the least vigorous primocane raspberry for me but the most tasty. Because it's primarily fall bearing I wonder how it would do in your region. You might have the weather turn on you before they get a chance to ripen. Here in 9b I harvested them into December.

I would get some floricane raspberries as well to hedge your bets.

For number plants I use 12 Blackberry's 12 Raspberry's plant the Raspberry closer spacing. 12 to 15 plants recommended for family of Four. Trellis 3 wire straight up more for trailing plants like Grapes what need to do in Trellis is conform trellis so hold up plants to stop tip rooting keep fruits high off ground so be no sand splashing picking on knee's is bad and having to tie plants to wire job. Looking at full grown plants should give a good Trellis deign on your Trellis I would put one wire up now the low one and just watch plants grow you should see need for cross board are cross bar with wire at ends cross bar with 30 inch space between 2 wires and 36 from ground this be seen in second year growth. I would take PVC pipe out to plants and put under canes lift up to point it did job needed tape measure install wires.

Taylor did terrible under my growing conditions and I'm removing it. I agree Anne is tasty, but if it grows for you like it does for me, it will take forever to fill up the trellis (= low productivity and lots of weeding). I'd plant a few Anne's for fresh eating, but then fill the trellis up with more productive and vigorous varieties like Caroline and Prelude. Kiowa and Natchez are good choices if you want thorny, erect varieties, but if your trellis is strong enough and high enough, I'd devote at least 1/4 of it to Triple Crown (thornless, trailing, sweet, and highly productive). You could always have part of the trellis be tall and the rest short. TC will be what will fill your freezer. Note that a 6' trellis for TC will have a lot of wasted upper space on the other varieties, particularly the raspberries, which really don't need much more than a few 4' U-post forming a V with a single wire on each side in my experience. If it were me (once again assuming your trellis is high and strong enough), I'd devote the trellis to trailing blackberries (maybe add Chester) and do a separate row of the erect berries with the simple, quick system above. I have had really good results with putting down heavy-duty woven landscape fabric (not the cheap spun filament stuff) on either side of the row and then mulching the center.

Is there another yellow raspberry that is a floricane variety? I could definetly make one 20' section a v trellis for all the raspberries and the other 2 for blackberries. If I am understanding this correctly a trailing blacberry is best on a three (horizontal) wire trellis?

I think all the yellows are primocane. You could get a black/purple raspberry. Those are floricane.

Yes, trailing blackberry canes can grow quite long (over 12') so they are normally grown on a horizontal trellis. If your conditions are good, TC will fill eventually about any size trellis you build, so I'd go as tall as you can reach. I'd also use 4 strong wires and make sure your end posts are guy-wired to prevent the inward collapse of the trellis (fully loaded TCs are heavy, plus a filled, leafed out trellis can act like a sail in the wind).

Tell me if this sounds about right.

On the first 20' section I will use as a v-trellis with
2-Anne
2-Caroline
2-Prelude
Are these 3 varieties suitable for a v-trellis?

On 20' section #2 I will use a horizontal 2 wire setup and will be planting
2-Kiowa
2-Natchez
2-Ouachita
Are these suitable for this type trellis?

20' section #3 horizontal 3 wire setup for trailing varieties
1-Triple Crown
1-Chester

Does this sound like a good start to a berry trellis or have I missed something?

From what I gather trailing varieties need about 10 feet of space each, is this a correct number?

I have been growing Anne for at least 6 years in my garden. They grow and taste great here. I have given some of these to relatives in the same zone with great results. I have mine planted 2-3 feet apart. I dont have mine trellised but they sure do need it.

I'd do 1-2' spacing on the first section (and plant a lot more Carolines and Preludes), about 2-3' spacing on the second, and squeeze in 3 TC's and 1 Chester on the last section (and make it tall). Bareroot berry plants are cheap, so there's no reason to not fill in the first two sections tighter to boost productivity and reduce weeding. I'd also dig a trench and maybe put in some sort of barrier between the 2nd and 3rd sections b/c the erect blackberries will eventually try to spread into your trailing blackberries (the same will happen between your first and second sections also).

Here is a link that might be useful: NCSU link on blackberries

There is reason to not put them too close together. If they grow into each other they block some light and restrict airflow. Where it's shady and moist you are more susceptible to disease.

I agree that you could put more TC's and Chester. If you check youtube you'll see people who just loop the canes on their trellis like hanging a hose. This lets you plant more closely.

djofnelson, the trench advise I will surely use.

As far as more raspberry plants, will I get more production from more plants trimmed to keep them neat and good air flow or less plants allowed to grow larger therefore less trimming.

And again for the TC and Chester, which method of trellising would get me more production. I guess another thing to consider would be ease of maintaining.

If anyone has really good links to berry trellising and pruning please post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV8ua7EJoiY

Here is a link that might be useful: Blackberry Video

Melike has a point with the trailing blackberries, but you can easily prune them to not crowd one another while still filling your trellis faster (and giving yourself some redundancy should one of your plants grow slowly or not make it at all). The raspberries and erect blackberries will spread underground to form a solid hedge either sooner or later based on how close you plant them together. Planting them close together gives you more berries faster and allows the berries to more quickly get to a point where they easily out compete the weeds. At this point increased airflow and sun is provided by thinning out the hedge by pruning to a desired number of canes per square foot.

A tall horizontal hedge will get you more production than shorter V-shaped one.

I also meant to add that for the trailing blackberries, I've found some density and shade helps protect the berries from my hot VA summer sun. Part of the density/shade comes from slightly closer planting along with following the pencil-thick pruning rules (there were a good series of posts awhile back on this) as compared with hacking the laterals back to 12-18" as is often recommended in books and online. This results in denser and wider foliage that helps shade the berries. The rest comes from arching out the long canes outward and away from my top wire, at a 45 degree angle from the ground. You can build a complicated trellis that does a better job of this (that NCSU link I sent had an example with a pivoting T-shape), but it probably isn't worth it in your climate.

Melike, love the video it is one of the more detailed and easy to understand vids.

I think I will crowd them in a little to make sure I get a full trellis and then trim them accordingly.

OK Monday the order goes in, I think Indiana Berry will get my order.

Now that I have placed my berry order today I need to start concentrating on what to do with the soil before I plant them. The soil in my yard is pretty good for growing since the previous owner (many years ago)had the whole yard as a garden. What should I do to the area that the berries will go in?

For the blackberries, nothing. For the raspberries, improve the drainage, if necessary.

I was told that mixing Blue berry Varieties would increase production.
Is this true about black berry & raspberry varieties?

Caneberries are considered self-fertile. The only advantage to massing several varieties together is that it creates a higher quality nectar source to bees and draws their attention (more blossoms in a small planting area). But the same would be true of massing many caneberry plants of the same variety.